Life from lifelessness?

[thaumaturgy]

That’s like saying he made some bricks, then these bricks are somehow able construct themselves into the Empire State Building.
When life arose, who was there to combine and properly treat this compounds?

When I mix two compounds together in the lab there are a number of spontaneous reactions that can occur simply because the chemicals are together and the temperature is right.

That's why life from non-life is such an interesting concept. What makes life life is really little more than merely chemistry. Chemistry occurs even without an intelligence behind it.

Look at the growth of a crystal from solution. It will follow rather strict chemical rules and build an extremely regular geometric shape just because the right chemicals are in contact with a surface.

One of my favorite articles I've found lately is one in which the attempt is made to understand why all life on earth shows homochirality (the preference of one isomeric form of some chemical compounds over another). This, while still hypothetical in relation to early life, is just elegant!

Take a look at it here.

The concept that so much of what we are simply is chemistry is fascinating. And chemistry follows rules.

Who was there to arrange the chemicals? Maybe it was little more than a mineral surface!

 

[tanzanos]

All life is made up of chemicals; and chemicals are NOT living things. So it is correct to say that life comes from non life.

Now repeat after me " I shall never again insult the wisdom of the almighty FSM"

 

[Naraoia]

One of my favorite articles I've found lately is one in which the attempt is made to understand why all life on earth shows homochirality (the preference of one isomeric form of some chemical compounds over another). This, while still hypothetical in relation to early life, is just elegant!

Take a look at it here.

To be honest when I read the article the effect seemed so tiny that I wasn't sure it was even real (IIRC nobody cared to mention if it was significant). Which is not to say it isn't a fascinating idea, though. (And not to say my opinion means anything, I'm only an apprentice and not of that trade )

EDIT: Wheee, it's my thousandth post! *dance*

 

[thaumaturgy]

To be honest when I read the article the effect seemed so tiny that I wasn't sure it was even real (IIRC nobody cared to mention if it was significant). Which is not to say it isn't a fascinating idea, though. (And not to say my opinion means anything, I'm only an apprentice and not of that trade )

EDIT: Wheee, it's my thousandth post! *dance*

You are right, but for me I think I'm more fascinated by the adsorption mechanism. I'm not a biochemist, but I spend a lot of time dealing with adsorption mechanisms on surfaces. And this article was not necessarily the means by which homochirality occurs, just that it is kind of neat to see the connections.

Even if carbonates weren't the driving force, the idea of a catalytic surface acting to affect a chemical reaction is so fundamental to our economy that it is attractive as an explanation to life as well. (Many catalysts are thought to decrease the E[sub]a[/sub] of reactions by orientation effects.

I'll definitely grant it looks like the effect here is small and they could have done with more statistics, but this is where this sort of study has to start.

I just really like this because it's a first step toward some really elegant, relatively straightforward experiments.

 

[atomweaver]

To be honest when I read the article the effect seemed so tiny that I wasn't sure it was even real (IIRC nobody cared to mention if it was significant). Which is not to say it isn't a fascinating idea, though. (And not to say my opinion means anything, I'm only an apprentice and not of that trade )

EDIT: Wheee, it's my thousandth post! *dance*

10% EE (enantiomeric excess) is nothing to sneeze at. Given a cyclic system for builidng and breaking down polynucleotides, you can make some fast progress towards further enrichment. Something like the cited calcite effect, paired with a selective mechanism for polynucleotide de-construction such as this;

http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/abstract/102/1/20

would lead to a daily enrichment of one enantiomer.
A quick summary for those not inclined to read; G-C polynucleotides pairs in the Watson-Crick conformation survive exposure to UV light longer than all other conformations... Article's conclusion is that iterative day-night light exposure cycles play a measurable role in enriching the early Earth in RNA precursors. Heck, it could be that the freezing effect of the OP within the mentioned 'night cycle' plays the role of rebuilding the RNA polynucleotides, to be enriched by the next day's dose of UV...

 

[Naraoia]

10% EE (enantiomeric excess) is nothing to sneeze at. Given a cyclic system for builidng and breaking down polynucleotides, you can make some fast progress towards further enrichment. Something like the cited calcite effect, paired with a selective mechanism for polynucleotide de-construction such as this;

http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/abstract/102/1/20

would lead to a daily enrichment of one enantiomer.
A quick summary for those not inclined to read; G-C polynucleotides pairs in the Watson-Crick conformation survive exposure to UV light longer than all other conformations... Article's conclusion is that iterative day-night light exposure cycles play a measurable role in enriching the early Earth in RNA precursors. Heck, it could be that the freezing effect of the OP within the mentioned 'night cycle' plays the role of rebuilding the RNA polynucleotides, to be enriched by the next day's dose of UV...

Sounds cool, thanks for the link

 

[Abongil]

One of the biggest things creationists hinge on is where the building blocks of life came from, how did they arise out of nothing?

Well today, there might actually be an answer to that question.

In the Febuary 2008 issue of Discover magazine contains an article called Did Life Begin In Ice? Now Im trying to locate a digital copy of this article but I cant seem to find it, if anyone wants to try and look, that would be appreciated.

I'll try to sum up the article as best I can.

A scientist, Stanley Miller, has kept a vial containing cyanide and ammonia at -108 degrees F. Now the mixture should be colorless, indicating no reaction. However after examining the vial, it had turned an amber color which is indicative of organic molecules being formed. Further tests concluded that the mixture had formed nucleobases, the building blocks of RNA, DNA, and Amino Acids. The building blocks of life. So it does seem that in-organic compounds, if combined and treated properly, can give rise to the basis of life

Its crazy, but I thought of doing this same experiment after taking my first high school chemistry course. I am glad that it succeeded.

 

[ranmaonehalf]

And who gave us science?

the fluevins