Life Expectancy in Red States vs Blue States

[expos4ever]

The red state/blue state health figures are a paradox.

Conservative lifestyle leads to better health.
Liberal approach leads to poor health.

From one study:

After controlling for poverty rate, percent African American and Latino populations, educational attainment, and spatial autocorrelation in the error term, we found that higher county-level obesity prevalence rates were associated with higher levels of support for the 2012 Republican Party presidential candidate.

 

[essentialsaltes]

The red state/blue state health figures are a paradox.

Conservative lifestyle leads to better health.
Liberal approach leads to poor health.

Even if we grant this, the main difference seems to be between conservative versus liberal government approaches to healthcare in these states. Not lifestyles.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Conservative policies tend to include personal responsibility. How is that harmful?

Should use of motorcycle helmets and car seatbelts be mandatory by law?

Nanny state liberals prevent children from chewing on lead paint, when children can make that decision for themselves. If lead tastes sweet, who's to stop them from exercising their person freedom to choose lead paint?

 

[JackRT]

What do the Swedes themselves think of their situation? It is, of course, entirely possible that the Swedes (and people in other "high-tax" nations) are pleased as punch to pay high taxes since they get quality services for their money. You appear to simply assume that high taxes = bad.

As a Canadian I know full well that I pay more in taxes than if I were in the USA but I do not mind because I get good value.

Comparative outcomes -------- Canada / US :

per capita medical spending --- $4500 / $8500

percent of GDP ---------------------11.2 / 17.7

public share –---------------------- 70% / 48%,

doctors per 1000 -------------------- 2.4 / 2.5

nurses per 1000 ----------------------9.3 / 11.1

life expectancy ----------------------- 81 / 79

smoking rate --------------------- 15.7% / 14.8%

obesity rate -----------------------25.4% / 36.5%.

As you can readily see, Canada achieves comparable or superior outcomes at close to half the expense and every citizen regardless of status or income has equal access.

 

[JackRT]

When Saskatchewan introduced universal medicare some 50 years ago I remember the howls of protest and predictions of doom and gloom. About 5 years later all of Canada had universal medicare. In my entire adult life I have never paid a cent for health care. Prescription and dental costs are insured privately. Since turning 65 my prescriptions are paid as well. Over the years I have had seven operations and four hospital stays, two of them extended and numerous diagnostic procedures. Just three years ago I received a pacemaker. I have never paid a cent to a doctor or hospital in my entire adult life.

 

[BigDaddy4]

I think my favorite argument was that these meal plans were bad because kids wouldn't eat the food. The group most closely associated with authoritarian parenting was now advocating for letting kids do whatever they want.

Well, this is true in our local school district where my wife works. Once the schools had to comply with the "guidelines", there was a noticeable increase in food waste by students who bought lunch. Some kids would go through the lunch line with barely anything on their tray. They wouldn't take the healthier options because they knew they wouldn't eat it. In the end, it would get thrown out anyway.

Why is it so hard to prepare healthy food that tastes good.

For many school districts, cost. Fresh and/or organic foods, even locally sourced, cost more. I'm guessing many districts don't have the budgets to absorb those costs.

 

[Sparagmos]

No, I will stick with Scripture. But... the numbers are what they are. If 61.15% of your money, on average, goes to the government... then you work for 7.2 months to get free stuff. Here, we work until April 15th for the government (down from May 15th under Obama). So if you think basically 4 months of additional working for the government = "free stuff" then vote for Bernie. I don't care...

I am going back to the other forums. Have a great day.

This is a false equivalency. How many months do you work for healthcare, college loans, retirement, and money to pay the bills for parental leave? How about all of the Americans that work 60 hours a week to have the same stuff people in Europe work 40 hours a week for? Full Fsmily heakthcare with no deductible costs $2,000/mo. Many people pAy over $500 month in college loans. Americans spend far more than Europeans on all of those things.

 

[iluvatar5150]

Conservative policies tend to include personal responsibility. How is that harmful?

Because, as a public policy, it's often ineffective at achieving its goals. People are flawed. Good, effective policy seeks to mitigate the impact of those flaws.

It seems that liberals want every expensive and destructive unhealthy habit covered by insurance. This is license.

Except that few people really treat their health that way.

Sadly liberals are the gatekeepers of education.

And yet, every time conservatives try to go their own way on education, they produce worse results.

Well, this is true in our local school district where my wife works. Once the schools had to comply with the "guidelines", there was a noticeable increase in food waste by students who bought lunch. Some kids would go through the lunch line with barely anything on their tray. They wouldn't take the healthier options because they knew they wouldn't eat it. In the end, it would get thrown out anyway.

I don't doubt the notion that kids threw away more food. What bewildered me was that conservatives took this as a way to show that the flaw was with the plan and not with their kids' behavior.

 

[KarateCowboy]

All healthcare is rationed. Insurance companies ration healthcare every day. I know many people who can’t go to the doctor due to high deductibles.

I was about to say I agree, but you can purchase health care on a market. Insurance payments may be rationed, but the care is not.

Either way, "universal healthcare" is a lying euphemism for "govt. rationed"

 

[BigDaddy4]

I don't doubt the notion that kids threw away more food. What bewildered me was that conservatives took this as a way to show that the flaw was with the plan and not with their kids' behavior.

I guess I don't understand your bewilderment. If the plan is to get kids to eat healthier in schools by requiring schools to serve healthier foods, but the healthier foods just end up being thrown away and therefore not achieving its goal, doesn't that indicate there is a flaw in the plan? Not to mention the increase in food acquisition costs. But this is just our district. Maybe other schools/districts are different.

 

[Tanj]

I was about to say I agree, but you can purchase health care on a market. Insurance payments may be rationed, but the care is not.

Either way, "universal healthcare" is a lying euphemism for "govt. rationed"

The US system is a lying euphemism for "what you can afford".

 

[KarateCowboy]

The US system is a lying euphemism for "what you can afford".

Is that supposed to mean something?

 

[GodLovesCats]

I was about to say I agree, but you can purchase health care on a market. Insurance payments may be rationed, but the care is not.

Either way, "universal healthcare" is a lying euphemism for "govt. rationed"

The people who need health insurnace the most can't afford to buy it. So until laws exist that require the government to pay for everyone's health care a person's health will be detemrined by money in the bank.

 

[cow451]

"Universal healthcare" is a lying euphemism for govt. rationed. People are still denied care in those systems. It's not universal.

BTW Paul Krugman has been caught fabricating data many times

Healthcare has been rationed for the four decades that I have worked in it. Universal care merely means that everyone has reasonable access.

I know many conservatives that are seeing the light as they and/or their loved ones are caught in the healthcare squeeze. Unfortunately, too many are slow to connect the dots to the ballot box. But their excuse for not doing so is.... but... but .... “socialism” ... “Hillary”.... etc.

 

[Speedwell]

Is that supposed to mean something?

That in the US health care is seen as a commodity that the rich have access to more and better of than the poor--just like big houses, fancy clothes, yachts, etc.

 

[cow451]

It not just not universal... it is expensive. In Sweden, the go-to-country for many on the left when discussing this topic, has an average 61.15% tax rate and no minimum wage in what is still a free market society. Can you imagine how the younger folks today will react when, if they were making $15 an hour, they lose $9.17 off each hourly wage to pay for this nonsense? Nothing is free, but they seem to think it is and they are entitled to it? A rude awakening awaits!

A my last employer, my family deductible took over two months of my take home pay. Do the math.

 

[cow451]

Out of their 2700 US dollars equivalent income, they pay on average 61.15% back to the government for that "free" healthcare and "free" education. I don't know how you get "free" when you have to work from January through AUGUST just to pay the government for your "free" stuff??? Anyway... add in that they only have 11 million people... our 350 million create a different dynamic and oh by the way... >>WE<< subsidize their national defense. That's right... if they get attacked, we pay for it and physically go defend them. Sounds like they have a great self-sufficient system going on there... ever consider moving?

Some reason you needed to repeat yourself?

 

[cow451]

Do you know what "net income" means? I ask because this post suggests you don't... (hint: that $2,700 is after taxes)

Wrong is the new math.

 

[cow451]

The red state/blue state health figures are a paradox.

Conservative lifestyle leads to better health.
Liberal approach leads to poor health.

The numbers don’t lie. Oddly, liberals seem to more often treat their bodies as a temple.

 

[wing2000]

I was about to say I agree, but you can purchase health care on a market. Insurance payments may be rationed, but the care is not.

...may I know which Insurance carrier doesn't ration their coverage?