Liberation Theology? | Social Justice? | And Jesus

[WordAloud]

Hi

I spent the afternoon not exactly doing an essay but exploring thoughts.

This was with ChatGPT. I find it quite interesting to see where conversations about God go with AI.

Apparently - according to ChatGPT - Jesus remains an influential figure in the Christian faith.

Nonetheless, I think a reason I like playing with it is that it's good to have a conversation.

And it's weird. I like weird.

The topic for the afternoon - and this went on for thousands of words, edited down - was Jesus in the 21st Century.

I wanted to explore the ways in which we connect with Jesus when so much whether or not pretending to be Christian is heading the other way.

I related this to Matthew 25: 31-46.

The link is here: https://wordaloud.co.uk/audio/kjv/2...ance/reflections-on-the-love-of-jesus-christ/

I would like to know where people are on this.

I am full-on liberal - That means that to my mind I take Jesus at his word.

That does not mean that I disrespect other people's thoughts.

The start of the text is here:

‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’ Jesus

One debate within contemporary Christianity centres around the interpretation of Jesus’ teachings, particularly in relation to issues of social justice and human rights. This debate is fuelled by a growing awareness of global inequality, social injustice, and the pressing need to address these issues in a meaningful way.

Many Christians have embraced a more progressive understanding of Jesus, emphasizing his teachings on love, compassion, and service to others as a call to action in addressing issues such as poverty, inequality, and racism. This approach to Christianity emphasizes a social gospel, which emphasizes the importance of working for social and economic justice and sees Jesus as a figure who championed the cause of the poor and marginalized.

The rise of progressive Christianity has led to the emergence of new religious movements, such as liberation theology, that seek to incorporate Jesus’ teachings into contemporary struggles for social justice. Liberation theology emerged in the 20th Century in Latin America, where it was shaped by the experiences of poverty, oppression, and political violence. Liberation theologians sought to interpret Jesus’ teachings in a way that emphasized the need for social and economic justice, particularly for the poor and oppressed. They sought to create a theology that was grounded in the lived experiences of the marginalized and oppressed and that was oriented towards action and social transformation.

Liberation theology and other progressive movements within Christianity have faced criticism and opposition from more traditional and conservative Christians, who argue that these movements are departures from traditional Christian theology and that they place too much emphasis on social and political issues at the expense of spiritual and theological concerns.

Despite these criticisms, the progressive movement within Christianity continues to grow and evolve, driven by a commitment to social justice, human rights, and the teachings of Jesus. Many Christians are finding new ways to express their faith in ways that are relevant to the contemporary world and that engage with issues of social and political importance. The debate over the interpretation of Jesus’ teachings is likely to continue, but it is clear that these teachings remain a powerful source of inspiration and motivation for Christians seeking to make a positive difference in the world.

 

[Clare73]

Hi
I spent the afternoon not exactly doing an essay but exploring thoughts.
This was with ChatGPT. I find it quite interesting to see where conversations about God go with AI.
Apparently - according to ChatGPT - Jesus remains an influential figure in the Christian faith.
Nonetheless, I think a reason I like playing with it is that it's good to have a conversation.
And it's weird. I like weird.
The topic for the afternoon - and this went on for thousands of words, edited down - was Jesus in the 21st Century.
I wanted to explore the ways in which we connect with Jesus when so much whether or not pretending to be Christian is heading the other way.
I related this to Matthew 25: 31-46.
The link is here: Listen To The Bible KJV! :) | 21st Century Jesus | Meditations On The Love Of Jesus Christ
I would like to know where people are on this.
I am full-on liberal - That means that to my mind I take Jesus at his word.
That does not mean that I disrespect other people's thoughts.
The start of the text is here:

"Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’ Jesus
One debate within contemporary Christianity centres around the interpretation of Jesus’ teachings, particularly in relation to issues of social justice and human rights. This debate is fuelled by a growing awareness of global inequality, social injustice, and the pressing need to address these issues in a meaningful way...

First of all, Jesus did not come to make the world a better place. . .he came to die for sin (Mt 20:28), to redeem those who believe in him out of this world into the kingdom of God which he brought (Mt 11:20).

Secondly, there is no such thing as "social" justice. There is only justice, giving everyone his due, what he has earned; i.e., what he is owed.
Simple "justice" covers everything one is owed, what he has earned, economically, socially, etc.
Caring for the deprived is not a matter of justice, it is a matter of love and charity, which Jesus was all about.
So let's not make love and charity a matter of social justice or human rights, they are not.
Justice is based on what one is due, what he has earned, and human rights are a matter of human definition, which for our society is given in our Constitution.

Many Christians have embraced a more progressive understanding of Jesus, emphasizing his teachings on love, compassion, and service to others as a call to action in addressing issues such as poverty, inequality, and racism. This approach to Christianity emphasizes a social gospel, which emphasizes the importance of working for social and economic justice

The only economic "injustice" is not being paid what one has earned; i.e., what one is justly owed.

and sees Jesus as a figure who championed the cause of the poor and marginalized.

Where do we see such "championing"?
Jesus championed love. . .of everyone, rich or poor.

The rise of progressive Christianity has led to the emergence of new religious movements, such as liberation theology, that seek to incorporate Jesus’ teachings into contemporary struggles for social justice. Liberation theology emerged in the 20th Century in Latin America, where it was shaped by the experiences of poverty, oppression, and political violence. Liberation theologians sought to interpret Jesus’ teachings in a way that emphasized the need for social and economic justice,

Jesus did not emphasize a need for "social" nor "economic" justice.
Jesus taught individual responsibility to God's law and responsibility to love one's neighbor as self.
What Jesus emphasized was the meaning of sin and its remedy.

particularly for the poor and oppressed. They sought to create a theology that was grounded in the lived experiences of the marginalized and oppressed and that was oriented towards action and social transformation.
Liberation theology and other progressive movements within Christianity have faced criticism and opposition from more traditional and conservative Christians, who argue that these movements are departures from traditional Christian theology and that they place too much emphasis on social and political issues at the expense of spiritual and theological concerns.
Despite these criticisms, the progressive movement within Christianity continues to grow and evolve, driven by a commitment to social justice, human rights,

Which concepts Jesus did not teach.

and the teachings of Jesus. Many Christians are finding new ways to express their faith in ways that are relevant to the contemporary world and that engage with issues of social and political importance.

Which is most commendable. . .but don't confuse it with Jesus coming to make the world a better place.

The debate over the interpretation of Jesus’ teachings is likely to continue, but it is clear that these teachings remain a powerful source of inspiration and motivation for Christians seeking to make a positive difference in the world.

Caring and responding to the needs of others is 100% Christian.
However, "social" and "economic" justice are misnomers.
Justice is simply one thing: giving everyone his due, what he has earned; i.e., what he is owed.
The teaching of Jesus is love of one's neighbor as oneself, it is not "economic justice," "social justice" or human rights.

Working to make a positive difference in the world is most commendable, but that was not Jesus' purpose on earth.
His purpose was to die for sin and to reveal the way to reconciliation with God (faith in him), where love of neighbor is a practice of that reconciliation with and love of God.

 

[The Liturgist]

Caring and responding to the needs of others is 100% Christian.
However, "social" and "economic" justice are misnomers.
Justice is simply one thing: giving everyone his due, what he has earned; i.e., what he is owed.
The teaching of Jesus is love of one's neighbor as oneself, it is not "economic justice," "social justice" or human rights.

Working to make a positive difference in the world is most commendable, but that was not Jesus' purpose on earth.
His purpose was to die for sin and to reveal the way to reconciliation with God (faith in him), where love of neighbor is a practice of that reconciliation with and love of God.

This is entirely correct. In nearly all cases, the terms social justice and economic justice imply Marxist economic and sociopolitical opinions, which Christians are free to have, but it is not the case that the early church held all property in common nor is it the case that a political agenda attaches to Christian faith of promoting socialist policies, which is one of the claims of Liberation Theology. Indeed it is easy to see why Pope St. John Paul II felt the need to shut down the Liberation Theology movement which was at the time growing within the Roman Catholic Church, particularly in Latin America.

Conversely, the Prosperity Gospel is equally bad, if not worse, but both it and Liberation Theology, while polar opposites, are rooted in the same error, that being the injection of a materialist concern with temporal wealth into Christianity. This causes a distortion in the priorities of the faithful and is contrary to Scripture, Tradition and Reason.

I would also like to stress that the larger Christian denominations, including but not limited to the Methodist, Lutheran, Presbyterian, Baptist, Anglican, Roman Catholic, Assyrian and Orthodox churches, place great emphasis on charitable giving, as does Judaism, which is why we see so many hospitals built by the above (although in the case of the Orthodox churches, the hospitals they ran were mostly nationalized, with the exception being a few smaller clinics in Greece, and facilities in Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, Iraq and India which also include hospices and orphanages, the latter being absolutely necessary in Muslim countries because a cruel aspect of Islamic law in force even in the relatively moderate Egyptian regime is a ban on the adoption of children, so the Church takes it upon itself to raise Christian children, who become orphans. They are not allowed to raise Muslim children due to the ban on conversion; Coptic Christian infants in Egypt receive a small tattoo of a cross on their right hand that identifies them as Christian and the responsibility of the Coptic Orthodox Church).

Furthermore, I would note that the Roman Catholic, Assyrian and Orthodox churches regard the giving of alms as something which can contribute to salvation, on the basis of the Epistle of St. James, “Faith without works is dead.” Likewise, Sola Fide Protestants generally regard works such as almsgiving as the sign of a living faith as opposed to a hypocritical dead faith.

It should also be noted that the very concept of the modern hospital was invented in the mid fourth century, around 355-360 AD, by St. Basil the Great, Bishop of Caesarea in Cappodacia*, who used the Church treasury to build a hospital where anyone could receive medical care, as well as hospices and hostels for travellers

Thus, we can see that Liberation Theology is as far as economic justice concerned, superfluous, and as far as Social Justice is concerned, given that our Lord made no effort to overthrow the oppressive Roman Empire or Judaean monarchy but instead actively encouraged obedience to secular authorities, even if they persecute us (“render unto Caesar that which is Caesar’s, and unto God that which is God’s” and “bless those who persecute you”), it is clear that Social Justice simply is not a priority in the Gospel, and thus Liberation Theology represents an inappropriate attempt to politicize the Church in a manner directly contradictory to the very words of our Savior. And it is wrong for largely the same reasons as the Prosperity Gospel.

As far as ChatGPT is concerned, I am thoroughly disinterested in what it has to say about theology. People don’t understand the limitations of Large Language Models, which is not to say they cannot be useful, but they are not infallible nor even aware of their own existence or of the meaning of the concepts they analyze, which is why they are routinely subject to exploits and erroneous or unexpected behavior.

*not to be confused with Caesarea in Syria Palestina, which replaced Jerusalem as the major city in the former province of Judea during the period between the destruction of the Holy City by the Romans during the failed Bar Kochba revolt, and its reconstruction in the 320s by St. Helena, the Christian mother of Emperor Constantine, who no doubt contributed to his conversion to Christianity.

 

[Clare73]

This is entirely correct. In nearly all cases, the terms social justice and economic justice imply Marxist economic and sociopolitical opinions, which Christians are free to have, but it is not the case that the early church held all property in common nor is it the case that a political agenda attaches to Christian faith of promoting socialist policies, which is one of the claims of Liberation Theology. Indeed it is easy to see why Pope St. John Paul II felt the need to shut down the Liberation Theology movement which was at the time growing within the Roman Catholic Church, particularly in Latin America.

Conversely, the Prosperity Gospel is equally bad, if not worse, but both it and Liberation Theology, while polar opposites, are rooted in the same error, that being the injection of a materialist concern with temporal wealth into Christianity. This causes a distortion in the priorities of the faithful and is contrary to Scripture, Tradition and Reason.

I would also like to stress that the larger Christian denominations, including but not limited to the Methodist, Lutheran, Presbyterian, Baptist, Anglican, Roman Catholic, Assyrian and Orthodox churches, place great emphasis on charitable giving, as does Judaism, which is why we see so many hospitals built by the above (although in the case of the Orthodox churches, the hospitals they ran were mostly nationalized, with the exception being a few smaller clinics in Greece, and facilities in Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, Iraq and India which also include hospices and orphanages, the latter being absolutely necessary in Muslim countries because a cruel aspect of Islamic law in force even in the relatively moderate Egyptian regime is a ban on the adoption of children, so the Church takes it upon itself to raise Christian children, who become orphans. They are not allowed to raise Muslim children due to the ban on conversion; Coptic Christian infants in Egypt receive a small tattoo of a cross on their right hand that identifies them as Christian and the responsibility of the Coptic Orthodox Church).

Furthermore, I would note that the Roman Catholic, Assyrian and Orthodox churches regard the giving of alms as something which can contribute to salvation, on the basis of the Epistle of St. James, “Faith without works is dead.” Likewise, Sola Fide Protestants generally regard works such as almsgiving as the sign of a living faith as opposed to a hypocritical dead faith.

It should also be noted that the very concept of the modern hospital was invented in the mid fourth century, around 355-360 AD, by St. Basil the Great, Bishop of Caesarea in Cappodacia*, who used the Church treasury to build a hospital where anyone could receive medical care, as well as hospices and hostels for travellers

Thus, we can see that Liberation Theology is as far as economic justice concerned, superfluous, and as far as Social Justice is concerned, given that our Lord made no effort to overthrow the oppressive Roman Empire or Judaean monarchy but instead actively encouraged obedience to secular authorities, even if they persecute us (“render unto Caesar that which is Caesar’s, and unto God that which is God’s” and “bless those who persecute you”), it is clear that Social Justice simply is not a priority in the Gospel, and thus Liberation Theology represents an inappropriate attempt to politicize the Church in a manner directly contradictory to the very words of our Savior. And it is wrong for largely the same reasons as the Prosperity Gospel.

As far as ChatGPT is concerned, I am thoroughly disinterested in what it has to say about theology. People don’t understand the limitations of Large Language Models, which is not to say they cannot be useful, but they are not infallible nor even aware of their own existence or of the meaning of the concepts they analyze, which is why they are routinely subject to exploits and erroneous or unexpected behavior.

*not to be confused with Caesarea in Syria Palestina, which replaced Jerusalem as the major city in the former province of Judea during the period between the destruction of the Holy City by the Romans during the failed Bar Kochba revolt, and its reconstruction in the 320s by St. Helena, the Christian mother of Emperor Constantine, who no doubt contributed to his conversion to Christianity.In

Informative and well done, as always. . .thanks so much.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

Time, experience and reflection have “purified” liberation theology and its attempts to make clear what the Gospel says about social injustice, Pope Francis said.

“Today, we old people laugh about how worried we were about liberation theology,” the pope told 30 Jesuits from Central America when he met them Jan. 26 in Panama during World Youth Day.

Francis told the Jesuits how he once asked a Central American bishop how the sainthood process was progressing for the assassinated Archbishop Oscar Romero of San Salvador. “He replied: ‘Absolutely out of the question. It would be like canonizing Marxism.’ That was just the prelude. He went on in the same vein.”

Pope reflects on changed attitudes toward liberation theology

Time, experience and reflection have “purified” liberation theology and its attempts to make clear what the Gospel says about social injustice, Pope Francis said.

cruxnow.com

 

[zippy2006]

Time, experience and reflection have “purified” liberation theology and its attempts to make clear what the Gospel says about social injustice, Pope Francis said.

If we have to choose between Pope Francis and Popes John Paul II & Benedict XVI, then I'll take the latter two any day of the week. They were both legitimate philosophers and theologians in their own right. Francis, not so much. The Catholic Church is very clearly against Liberation Theology. Indeed, if there is any form of theology which the Catholic Church has consistently opposed in the last century, it is Liberation Theology! Francis' anecdotes and off-the-cuff interviews are not a serious counterargument.

 

[WordAloud]

Hmm. I find Evangelii Gaudium an inspiring text. It seems to be a very good analysis of the present situation. I am in England, and the economy here is at risk of collapse - while social inequalities are becoming extreme. I think the text has a lot to say - and not just here but globally.

 

[WordAloud]

PS you haven't read Evangelii Gaudium, have you. [The ? would be rhetorical.] It's worth a read. I think it is a beautiful document. I remember studying it at seminary when it first was published. There was joy. xOl

 

[WordAloud]

I apologize for the previous because it is confrontational. I wish you well.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

PS you haven't read Evangelii Gaudium, have you. [The ? would be rhetorical.] It's worth a read. I think it is a beautiful document. I remember studying it at seminary when it first was published. There was joy. xOl

Sure did.