Shiloh Raven

Well-Known Member
May 14, 2016
12,509
11,495
Texas
✟228,180.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married

I feel I should apologize to you because my response to you came out a lot harsher than I intended it to. It's sometimes difficult for me to convey my thoughts on a message board and not sound harsh.
 
Upvote 0

W2L

Well-Known Member
Jun 26, 2016
20,081
10,988
USA
✟213,573.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
I feel I should apologize to you because my response to you came out a lot harsher than I intended it to. It's sometimes difficult for me to convey my thoughts on a message board and not sound harsh.
Its ok, my reply lacked grace, that's why I edited it. Sorry about that.
 
Upvote 0

SkyWriting

The Librarian
Site Supporter
Jan 10, 2010
37,279
8,500
Milwaukee
✟410,948.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
It doesn't. It's just that many liberal positions go against Christian faith, belief, and teaching. Just as many conservative positions go against Christian faith, belief, and teaching. The difference is, the conservative side doesn't attack or wish/seek to change Christianity to fit its sins.
The Catholic church has always sought to help the poor, women, and disenfranchised.
Conservative groups, not so much.
 
Upvote 0

Albion

Facilitator
Dec 8, 2004
111,138
33,258
✟583,842.00
Country
United States
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
The Catholic church has always sought to help the poor, women, and disenfranchised.
Conservative groups, not so much.
According to studies, conservatives give more to charity than do liberals. Maybe your misperception is just a matter of them not bragging about it in the way that many liberals do.
 
Upvote 0

Speedwell

Well-Known Member
May 11, 2016
23,928
17,625
81
St Charles, IL
✟347,270.00
Country
United States
Faith
Other Religion
Marital Status
Married
According to studies, conservatives give more to charity than do liberals. Maybe its just a matter of them not bragging about it as much as liberals do.
Liberals are more willing to do it through the government.
 
Upvote 0

Aldebaran

NCC-1701-A
Christian Forums Staff
Purple Team - Moderator
Site Supporter
Oct 17, 2009
38,719
12,118
Wisconsin, United States of America
✟649,971.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
Liberals are more willing to do it through the government.

Sure, they "give" after first taking it from everyone else. It's how liberal politicians are able to "give" everyone free education/healthcare/food/Obamaphones, etc.
 
Upvote 0

SkyWriting

The Librarian
Site Supporter
Jan 10, 2010
37,279
8,500
Milwaukee
✟410,948.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
According to studies, conservatives give more to charity than do liberals. Maybe your misperception is just a matter of them not bragging about it in the way that many liberals do.

How much more per year, as a percentage?
 
Upvote 0

SkyWriting

The Librarian
Site Supporter
Jan 10, 2010
37,279
8,500
Milwaukee
✟410,948.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Liberals are more willing to do it through the government.

That should be conservatives....but no.

1 Peter 2:13-17
Titus 3
1 Timothy 2
Psalms 22:28
Daniel 2:20-21
Romans 13:7
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Speedwell

Well-Known Member
May 11, 2016
23,928
17,625
81
St Charles, IL
✟347,270.00
Country
United States
Faith
Other Religion
Marital Status
Married
Sure, they "give" after first taking it from everyone else. It's how liberal politicians are able to "give" everyone free education/healthcare/food/Obamaphones, etc.
Liberals are not generally as concerned about the possibly undeserving character of some of the recipients of charity as conservatives and have much less stringent standards in the matter. In general liberals and conservatives have different ideas about the cause of poverty; liberals are more likely to ascribe it to lack of opportunity or bad luck than to laziness or other moral inadequacies. That is why liberals are sometimes incredulous about conservative objections to government safety net programs. I think that conservatives would agree that assistance to the poor in the way of job training, healthcare, food and even phones to assist in looking for work are all good ideas. But liberals just don't get it that conservatives prefer private charities, even when their resources are inadequate to the task, because private charities offer the opportunity to weed out those who conservatives see as undesirable recipients which government programs do not.
 
Upvote 0

JackRT

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Oct 17, 2015
15,722
16,445
80
small town Ontario, Canada
✟767,295.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Unorthodox
Marital Status
Married
Liberals are not generally as concerned about the possibly undeserving character of some of the recipients of charity as conservatives and have much less stringent standards in the matter. In general liberals and conservatives have different ideas about the cause of poverty; liberals are more likely to ascribe it to lack of opportunity or bad luck than to laziness or other moral inadequacies. That is why liberals are sometimes incredulous about conservative objections to government safety net programs. I think that conservatives would agree that assistance to the poor in the way of job training, healthcare, food and even phones to assist in looking for work are all good ideas. But liberals just don't get it that conservatives prefer private charities, even when their resources are inadequate to the task, because private charities offer the opportunity to weed out those who conservatives see as undesirable recipients which government programs do not.

Why myths about poor endure

Judith McCormack in the Toronto Star

Our perceptions of poor people are full of stubborn myths. The man who picks up his welfare cheque in a white Cadillac, the teenage mother with a flock of illegitimate children, the loafer who works the system instead of a job – these are the stuff of urban legends. The reality of poverty is surprisingly different. To begin with, the proportion of single parents on welfare who are under 20 years old is very small – 3 per cent, according to a National Council on Welfare study. And nearly half of all single parent families on welfare have only one child, with another 31 per cent having only two children. That couch potato with a weak work ethic? Another myth. The grim truth is that more than half of all poor people are working. And even bleaker – almost one-third of people on welfare are children. When the proportion of poor people with disabilities is added to this mix, the picture looks quite different. There is a notable absence of white Cadillacs among the poor as well. Welfare incomes typically hover at around half the poverty line, not nearly enough money for adequate food or housing, let alone a car. Perhaps the most persistent of these fallacies is the idea of widespread welfare fraud. In fact, the evidence suggests that the rate of welfare fraud is quite low.

As professors Janet Mosher and Joe Hermer found in a report to the Law Commission of Canada, the number of welfare fraud convictions in Ontario in 2001-02 was roughly equivalent to 0.1 per cent of the combined social assistance caseload. Even more telling is that these convictions represented only 1 per cent of the allegations about welfare offences. And there were a large number of allegations – 38,452 welfare fraud investigations were conducted that year. The end tally? Ninety-nine per cent of them did not result in convictions. In other words, a great deal of time and energy is spent looking for welfare fraud, but there doesn't seem to be much to find.

So why are these myths so resilient, despite the evidence to the contrary? One reason has to do with underlying economic fears in society at large. For many people, concerns about financial insecurity and ending up poor are never far from the surface. These fears can be handled by assigning certain traits to the poor that make them different from the rest of society. If we think of the poor as lazy and dishonest, then it seems less likely that poverty will happen to us, the hard-working, the responsible. But these stereotypes are not merely the result of personal fears. They serve a number of other purposes as well. Blaming the poor for their own plight makes it possible to avoid a more searching examination of the social and economic factors that contribute to poverty.

For example, unemployment is an important determinant of poverty. But the unemployment rate is closely linked to broader economic policy decisions. Increasing interest rates, for instance, usually results in fewer jobs and higher unemployment. This means that finding a job is like a game of musical chairs for the poor. No matter how motivated an individual person may be, there will always be too few chairs to go around. Similarly, a low minimum wage, or a lack of affordable housing are public policy choices that have a direct effect on poverty. Stigmatizing the poor allows politicians and policy-makers to ignore responsibility for those decisions.

The myths about poverty often serve other political purposes as well. Defining the poor as lazy or irresponsible creates popular villains for the rest of us to condemn. It panders to a human weakness to feel superior to someone, and provides a handy target for complaints about tax dollars. The same is true when those stereotypes are dressed up in the jargon of "welfare dependency," argued as the reason why poor children sometimes end up as poor adults. The real problem is that poor children have severely limited resources, which often translates into less education and fewer opportunities as they get older. They may indeed end up losing that game of musical chairs, but not because of a particular mindset.

The truth is that, like the rest of us, poor people engage in a wide range of moral conduct and possess a broad array of personal traits and psychological outlooks. And the way to address a complex problem like economic inequality is from a variety of different angles. Rather than scapegoating the poor, there are a series of practical steps that would have a significant impact on poverty. Several of these steps have been canvassed in these pages – a higher minimum wage, affordable housing, universal child care, a guaranteed income, and accessible education. These measures go to some of the most fundamental principles of civil society: ensuring human dignity and a fair shake for everyone, regardless of income.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Speedwell
Upvote 0

Cis.jd

Well-Known Member
Dec 3, 2015
3,613
1,484
New York, NY
✟140,465.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
Here is a question for you. Where in the Bible does it say that it is a sin to be a liberal?

Liberals are necessary to a nation. Some Christians use Jesus as an example of a liberal (i can understand why people would think so);as well as many people who revolutionized a system positively. We need liberal ideals whenever the system has to be shaken up because of how intoxicating conservatives are.

It's just at our present times, liberals today have lost all forms of intellectual reasoning. They are more in rejection to basic reasoning and rationalism than they are against religious views. The Left are so far out in ideology that even the "The 4 Horseman of the New Atheists" have a massive dislike for them. Dawkins and Harris call them them the regressive left.

Liberals have become a cesspool of spoiled-illogical college kids who always see themselves as the victim of something. Their politics have already reached the form of an insane ideology that it has made religion look completely sane.

I honestly think the modern day left are just as dangerous to our planets future as global warming is.
 
Upvote 0

JackRT

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Oct 17, 2015
15,722
16,445
80
small town Ontario, Canada
✟767,295.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Unorthodox
Marital Status
Married
Liberals are necessary to a nation. Some Christians use Jesus as an example of a liberal (i can understand why people would think so);as well as many people who revolutionized a system positively. We need liberal ideals whenever the system has to be shaken up because of how intoxicating conservatives are.

It's just at our present times, liberals today have lost all forms of intellectual reasoning. They are more in rejection to basic reasoning and rationalism than they are against religious views. The Left are so far out in ideology that even the "The 4 Horseman of the New Atheists" have a massive dislike for them. Dawkins and Harris call them them the regressive left.

Liberals have become a cesspool of spoiled-illogical college kids who always see themselves as the victim of something. Their politics have already reached the form of an insane ideology that it has made religion look completely sane.

I honestly think the modern day left are just as dangerous to our planets future as global warming is.

Thank you for exposing your prejudices. You have set up a nice straw man.

I am a very well educated 76 year old liberal Christian because through long experience I have found that it was the only way I could preserve my spiritual, moral and intellectual integrity.

You have just become yet another file card in that long experience.

Go with God my friend. Please.
 
Upvote 0

Cis.jd

Well-Known Member
Dec 3, 2015
3,613
1,484
New York, NY
✟140,465.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
Thank you for exposing your prejudices. You have set up a nice straw man.

I am a very well educated 76 year old liberal Christian because through long experience I have found that it was the only way I could preserve my spiritual, moral and intellectual integrity.

You have just become yet another file card in that long experience.

Go with God my friend. Please.

Liberals of your generation where fine. I would actually say during your days, it was the right wing that where the bad ones. But now, the left our modern times which is represented vocally by Millennials and Gen z's are a different story.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

JackRT

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Oct 17, 2015
15,722
16,445
80
small town Ontario, Canada
✟767,295.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Unorthodox
Marital Status
Married
Liberals of your generation where fine. I would actually say during your days, it was the right wing that where the bad ones. But now, the left our modern times which is represented vocally by Millennials and Gen z's are a different story.

I suppose I could post a long litany of nut case Conservatives but I do not want to get into a urinating contest with you. Suffice to say there are more than enough straw men on both sides already. You remain in my rolodex.
 
Upvote 0

Cis.jd

Well-Known Member
Dec 3, 2015
3,613
1,484
New York, NY
✟140,465.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
I suppose I could post a long litany of nut case Conservatives but I do not want to get into a urinating contest with you. Suffice to say there are more than enough straw men on both sides already. You remain in my rolodex.

I don't deny that there are nut case conservatives. I've seen plenty of them here and I've even said the necessity of having liberals when a society is consumed by the right in the first sentence of my post.

I just think that right now it is the left that are insane. As Sam Harris has put it, "we are on the death of the left". Just watch some of todays college kids, the Young Turks, and read articles regarding identity politics.
 
Upvote 0

Ignatius the Kiwi

Dissident
Mar 2, 2013
7,056
3,767
✟290,134.00
Country
New Zealand
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
If we're defining liberalism as the political toleration of certain views or actions which can be contrary to God then I would have to question any liberal who claims to be Christian and tolerates anti-Christian practices which undermine the faith and cohesion of Christendom.

The Bible doesn't say you can't be liberal, but where in the Biblical text are we ever told to be liberals? Paul wasn't particularly liberal to the man who slept with his Father's wife. Paul wasn't particularly liberal in accepting Galatians adopting Jewish practices and standards. Jesus wasn't particularly liberal in whipping money changers in the temple. God wasn't particularly liberal with the people of Sodom and Gomorrah.

Liberalism as a political system unto itself is contrary to Christianity and works only to undermine it by advocating the right of sinners to be sinful. This true of both liberals on the right and left.
 
  • Winner
Reactions: charsan
Upvote 0

ArmenianJohn

Politically Liberal Christian Fundamentalist
Jan 30, 2013
8,962
5,551
New Jersey (NYC Metro)
✟205,252.00
Country
United States
Faith
Oriental Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat
If we're defining liberalism as the political toleration of certain views or actions which can be contrary to God then I would have to question any liberal who claims to be Christian and tolerates anti-Christian practices which undermine the faith and cohesion of Christendom.

The Bible doesn't say you can't be liberal, but where in the Biblical text are we ever told to be liberals? Paul wasn't particularly liberal to the man who slept with his Father's wife. Paul wasn't particularly liberal in accepting Galatians adopting Jewish practices and standards. Jesus wasn't particularly liberal in whipping money changers in the temple. God wasn't particularly liberal with the people of Sodom and Gomorrah.

Liberalism as a political system unto itself is contrary to Christianity and works only to undermine it by advocating the right of sinners to be sinful. This true of both liberals on the right and left.
Jesus wasn't particularly liberal to those he fed.
Jesus wasn't particularly liberal to those he healed or raised from the dead.
Jesus wasn't particularly liberal in the Sermon on the Mount.
Jesus wasn't particularly liberal when he said to love your enemies and do good to those that hate you.

Oh wait.... Actually He was being particularly liberal. Radical, even.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: JackRT
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums