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Liberals, why can't someone choose their race?

Discussion in 'Physical & Life Sciences' started by Z.Mackenzie, Apr 28, 2016.

  1. FrumiousBandersnatch

    FrumiousBandersnatch Well-Known Member

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    No, that was my point. I think the two situations are different, in the way I described, so that what applies to one is not necessarily applicable to the other. The distinction I'm making is between the involuntary and the voluntary. I acknowledge that it can be difficult to distinguish between the voluntary and the involuntary in specific instances, which is why developmental neuroscience can help by identifying traits that have a developmental origin.

    To make an extreme analogy, it's like the difference between someone born with a neurological speech impediment and someone who chooses to adopt such a mode of speech for whatever reason.

    I generally identify gender by the individual's behaviour.

    If you're asking what I mean by gender, I mean the behaviour of an individual reflected in their position on the spectrum of personal, social, and cultural roles involving masculinity & femininity. Gender identity in this context is the position on that spectrum that the individual feels most comfortable with, or comes most naturally to them.
     
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  2. Ken-1122

    Ken-1122 Newbie

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    A speech impediment is a defect. You aren't suggesting to be black is a defect; are you?
    Can you provide a list of behaviors that only apply to males, and a list that only applies to females?
     
  3. FrumiousBandersnatch

    FrumiousBandersnatch Well-Known Member

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    I wasn't referring to race or colour, but to sex and gender, and it was an analogy.

    No (you should be able to think of some physiologically determined behaviours). It's the general pattern of behaviour in a given context that is relevant.
     
  4. Ken-1122

    Ken-1122 Newbie

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    The question I asked (that you were responding to) was about race or color, not sex and gender. Care to answer the specific question I asked?
    Personally, I’m not convinced such behaviors exist. Yeah; on average engineers tend to be men, and Nurses tend to be women; mechanics tend to be men, and secretaries tend to be women; but that doesn’t justify a biological female identifying as male simply because she wants to be an engineer or a mechanic! Just as a black man who likes country music and hockey will not identify as a white person, or a white person who likes rap music and basketball will not identify as black, a female who prefers jeans over skirts, who prefers football over knitting should not identify as a male. Do you agree?
     
  5. Kylie

    Kylie Defeater of Illogic

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    I'm saying there is no clear genetic marker. You can't say, "If a person has this particular set of genes, they are black, and if they have this particular set they are white."

    A person's gender identity sense of whether they are a man or woman.

    "Some evidence from brain morphology and function studies indicates that male and female brains cannot always be assumed to be identical from either a structural or functional perspective, and some brain structures are sexually dimorphic." Neuroscience of sex differences - Wikipedia

    "But over the past 15 years or so, there’s been a sea change as new technologies have generated a growing pile of evidence that there are inherent differences in how men’s and women’s brains are wired and how they work." How men's and women's brains are different

    "The result of two-sample t-test of 32 features of men and women shows that there are 25 features had significant gender differences including 13 features that women have larger values and 12 features that men have larger values (see Figure 3). Interestingly, men have significantly higher entropy than women for all features (see Figure 4)." Brain Differences Between Men and Women: Evidence From Deep Learning

    "It’s no secret that boys and girls are different—very different. The differences between genders, however, extend beyond what the eye can see. Research reveals major distinguishers between male and female brains." https://www.psychologytoday.com/au/blog/hope-relationships/201402/brain-differences-between-genders
     
  6. Ken-1122

    Ken-1122 Newbie

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    I disagree! Black people have a higher concentration of Melanin in their skin than white people.

    So it’s all based on a subjective feeling? If so, how does a biological male know what it feels like to be a female? Why doesn’t he recognize there are other man who feel the way he does and continue identifying as a man?

    Are you suggesting (for example) biological males who identify as women have different brains than males who don’t identify as women? That all transgender people have this brain condition that does not align with their sexual biology?
     
  7. FireDragon76

    FireDragon76 "Excuse me... what does God need with a starship?" Supporter

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    Not necessarily. A black person with albinism has no melanin at all, yet they are still black or African-American.

    There have also been throughout history plenty of African-Americans who did not have dark skin.
     
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  8. FireDragon76

    FireDragon76 "Excuse me... what does God need with a starship?" Supporter

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    The concept of race is an artifact of European colonialism.
     
  9. Kylie

    Kylie Defeater of Illogic

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    Melatonin in skin is not a genetic marker.

    There is no genetic marker for race. There’s No Scientific Basis for Race—It's a Made-Up Label

    Are we doing this again? If it can't be explained to you, it doesn't exist? It doesn't matter if you understand it. The fact remains that it is backed up by science. The brain of a trans woman is more like the brain of a cis woman than a cis man. Transgender brains are more like their desired gender from an early age

    I'm saying that there is a scientific basis for accepting it when someone says they are trans.
     
  10. Ken-1122

    Ken-1122 Newbie

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    Whether there are “genetic markers” or not, there are genetic differences with races. I’m sure we will never agree on this but it just seems to me if you are willing to accept a biological male identifying as a woman, you should be willing to accept someone identifying as a different race.

    There is not a scientific consensus on this issue.
    Neurosexism: the myth that men and women have different brains
     
  11. Ken-1122

    Ken-1122 Newbie

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    I'm not talking about people born with an affliction , or handicap; I'm talking about people born whole.
    That's because most African Americans are of mixed race due to slavery. I believe it was Ancestory.com estimated the average African American was only 65% SubSaharan African.
     
  12. Strathos

    Strathos No one important

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    So do Indian people, would you call them 'black'?
     
  13. FireDragon76

    FireDragon76 "Excuse me... what does God need with a starship?" Supporter

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    Such a vague concept.
     
  14. Ken-1122

    Ken-1122 Newbie

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    It is my understanding that in Asia and Europe they are considered black, even though in the United States, the term black is usually reserved for those of Sub-Saharan African decent.
     
  15. Ken-1122

    Ken-1122 Newbie

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    Would it be a vague concept to say humans have 2 eyes capable of sight? Because I know of someone who was born blind.
     
  16. FireDragon76

    FireDragon76 "Excuse me... what does God need with a starship?" Supporter

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    They are considered Asian.

    Indians vary in their skin color, too. Some are light skin, others are dark skinned.
     
  17. Ken-1122

    Ken-1122 Newbie

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    Asian is anyone from Asia. They include not only Indians, but Russians, Saudi Arabian, Chinese, Pakistani, and a host of others. To suggest Indians are only Asians is to suggest African Americans are Americans; yeah they are but that discription says nothing about race.
     
  18. Strathos

    Strathos No one important

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    Doesn't that support the claim that race is not genetic but cultural?
     
  19. JackRT

    JackRT OOPS!!! Supporter

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    Yes, and Jesus was Asian as well.
     
  20. FireDragon76

    FireDragon76 "Excuse me... what does God need with a starship?" Supporter

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    In a place like Britain, "Asian" usually refers to Pakistanis and Indians.
     
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