Liberals attack doughnut shop's good deed -- What is wrong with them?

[FireDragon76]

I've never seen an ELCA Lutheran that teaches a rigorist biblicist reading of the Scriptures. Most of those type of folks left in 2009, and those that stayed certainly do not determine what is normal in our church. And they were always only a small part of our tradition.

My pastor has pretty harsh words for anybody that would cause a scandal against the gay community in Jesus name. It is not wrong to speak up about what our church teaches concerning the dignity of gay people, or how other churches are frankly wrong in seeing this as an issue worthy of contempt in our culture.

 

[Kenny'sID]

So you practice bibliolatry, no surprise there.

So you're suggesting though I read the bible as likely most do, (are most people a biblicist in your view?) there is something wrong with my perception of it? Or there is something wrong with my perception if I don't read it the way you have chosen to? Or your way of reading it is correct even when it takes something that's clearly condemned and makes it not that?

As I've understood "hermeneutic" is it is merely an excuse to make the bible say what we want it to say.

See, most people have no trouble at all picking up on the fact homosexuality is condemned, and only a very very small number manage to read the bible as stating otherwise, and not surprising most likey most of those are homosexuals...go figure.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Did God not destroy Sodom and Gammorah because of it's tolerance of homosexuality. Did God not inflict 9/11 on our country because of the same sin. There is no sin greatervthan homosexuality as evidenced by God's willingness to burn cities because of it.

This is true, but the world and sinners won't listen or accept God's Word - they'd rather change it or just ignore it.

ON a tangent, other sins also must be repented of (yes, I know you know).

But did you look up online search: 5 white poisons ?

Is it a sin to give little children poison/ and adults ? (and animals) ?

It is done and promoted and advertised EVERY DAY, more and more (worse than cigarettes ; and evil like alcohol)

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

My pastor has pretty harsh words for anybody that would cause a scandal against the gay community in Jesus name.

Jesus started it,
so no worries.
Everywhere on earth muslims, other religions, terrorists, gays, and greedy corporations and greedy landlords oppose Jesus and His children.
He said they would, and they do just as He warned us.

Oh, in-womb executioners too, even though they are very extreme,
more so than most other sinners.

 

[FireDragon76]

Everybody has a hermeneutic. Even you, Kenny. Saying the Bible is "sacred scriptures" or "inerrant" is itself evidence of a hermeneutic.

 

[Kenny'sID]

Remember the veil over everyone's mind,
only God is able to remove it.
So, no, most people on earth NEVER manage to see what is written

Yet we try just the same.

This is common with anyone who chooses to go into denial...they will find a way to make the false true, if they want it to be badly enough, even if the truth were staring them right in the face.

It's actually always fascinating to me how some will actually call black white and really believe it..

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Yet we try just the same.

This is common with anyone who chooses to go into denial...they will find a way to make the false true, if they want it to be badly enough, even if the truth were staring them right in the face.

It's actually always fascinating to me how some will actually call black white and really believe it..

A lot of churches have started/ been founded to oppose Jesus,
instead of people repenting, they find a group that promotes sin and welcomes them in sin.

This is 'upside down', lie is truth, truth is lie, as Jesus says would be.

Fascinating in a way, heart-breaking that little children are trampled this way, their lives destroyed.... as has been for centuries though - deceived and deceiving more....

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Baby lon is promoted, one baby that is growing enormously ! (in wickedness extreme , everywhere)


(the world/ politics/ religion/ all opposed to truth, opposed to the Creator/ denying His Word always)

 

[FireDragon76]

though you neglected to ask why I thought he had no use for democratic norms, from the fact he never once put anything up to a vote or said he changed His mind based upon the consensus of opinion of those around Him.

Our church values democratic norms because we recognize the state and our civic life as part of the Left Hand Kingdom. We are not opposed to the world and its ways necessarily, and democratic norms have proven themselves the most conducive to human flourishing. Something we do acknowledge as part of what we as Lutherans value, this has been affirmed since the 1950's across many Lutheran denominations.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

"whoever loves the world, or the things of the world, cannot be a friend of Yahweh (God the Creator) or Jesus) "

Yahweh's Word is Perfect, Clean, Righteous and Clear. He never stuttered.

 

[redleghunter]

oh oh..... sinners invariably hurt others, which is not what children of Yahweh are called to do.

"be harmless as doves" covers a lot of territory / sin not to do...... (including ALL sexual sin)

Which is why I had the sarcasm tag (/s). We can derive from other portions of Holy Scriptures that vaporizing entire city populations in the millions is something Jesus would not want His sheep to do.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Which is why I had the sarcasm tag (/s).

Until now , I never noticed it nor heard of it before, anywhere. THANKS for pointing it out !

 

[Kenny'sID]

Everybody has a hermeneutic. Even you, Kenny. Saying the Bible is "sacred scriptures" or "inerrant" is itself evidence of a hermeneutic.

Is that really all you choose to touch on from my post?

Do you agree yours is a belief that is not held by most every Christian? See, you have to look at things like that as well, not just what you choose to see in determining right and wrong.

Or better yet, just read the bible, it's very clear, and don't assume because a very small minority with an agenda that makes them read the bible differently, is correct. It should actually be very clear why they read the bible as they do. Common sense needs to play a role at some point in this.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Is that really all you choose to touch on from my post?

Do you agree yours is a belief that is not held by most every Christian? See, you have to look at things like that as well, not just what you choose to see in determining right and wrong.

Or better yet, just read the bible, it's very clear, and don't assume because a very small minority with an agenda that makes them read the bible differently, is correct. It should actually be very clear why they read the bible as they do. Common sense needs to play a role at some point in this.

I think many of them have admitted that's why they don't believe the Bible as it is .

They actually have admitted (maybe AFTER they repented of their sin)
that as long as they held to things / (sin) / directly opposed to Scripture,
they either had to ignore it, denying it is there,
or change it so they wouldn't have to change (repent) their own lives.

Since ONLY BY REPENTANCE can anyone be forgiven, I still don't know WHY they change God's Word
INSTEAD of repenting !?!?

Changing God's Word gets them more and more deceived, and never saved !

By repenting they might be HEALED and SAVED and be able, yes ABLE to help others (yes, even gays - they can help gays by OBEYING GOD"S WORD instead of changing it) .....

They can help gays, but only if they(the saved healed ones who are helping others) honor God and His Word.

They can help gays, even if the gays do not change ! (strange as that sounds) >> it only means without knowing if the gays will change or not, feed them if they are hungry, be gracious and kind when able to do so, and so on. Maybe they won't ever be saved, but neither will most people,
so we can help them same as most people can be helped, as Yahweh Says, as Yahweh Permits,

only if we do not change God's Word. THEN and only then, can we help ANYONE, even ourselves by God's Grace.

 

[JackRT]

Many scholars no longer understand the story of Sodom as being about God's condemnation of homosexuality per se, but of a breach of ancient norms of hospitality.

Quite right! as per: Ezekiel 16:9 -- "Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy."

The Sodom story also condemns rape. Rape is not about sexual orientation but about power and control.

 

[Kenny'sID]

Since ONLY BY REPENTANCE can anyone be forgiven, I still don't know WHY they change God's Word
INSTEAD of repenting !?!?

Changing God's Word gets them more and more deceived, and never saved !

Exactly, they want both very badly so they create a world that allows that.

I'd like to have half dozen wives too, but I can't, and it's just not worth my eternity to do that or any other sin perpetually or convince myself something so clear is not sisn. Still, I'd guess there are those who have made that ok in their mind in spite of scripture saying no..

 

[Kenny'sID]

That is a personal interpretation of yours not a ranking from the Bible. I still await your producing the ranking system from the Bible. And no BTW God did not inflict 9/11 on the US because of homosexuality or any other sin anymore than he inflicted Europe with the bubonic plague as punoishment for making homosexuality a crime or because of rampant heterosexuality.

Maybe peachy's opinion is fact, maybe not, but you have to admit, even if it were true, it'd be a real trick to get a listing in the bible.

 

[FireDragon76]

Do you agree yours is a belief that is not held by most every Christian?

Of course, but I'm confident it is the correct one and will withstand careful scrutiny.

See, you have to look at things like that as well, not just what you choose to see in determining right and wrong.

It's not just my choice, it's the judgment of millions of educated people.

Or better yet, just read the bible, it's very clear, and don't assume because a very small minority with an agenda that makes them read the bible differently, is correct.

I don't. The way I read and understand the Bible is proven in my experience as well, and I would not be alone in that judgment. And contrary to what GatW says, what I said is legitimate Lutheran theology as our tradition recognizes.

We don't have the market cornered on following God's will and being a Christian but we do know how to proclaim what is true. Or else we are in the wrong church, frankly. I became a Lutheran because I believe in the teachings as presented by my pastor, not because I am German-American or Scandinavian American and its my cultural heritage. My cultural heritage is mostly English, but I am very grateful to Doctor Luther for setting me free through the clear preaching of the Gospel and I know when God's Word is correctly preached and applied according to our faith, it produces real Christians.

One of my favorite Christians, Mr. Rogers, was not even a Lutheran, he was Presbyterian (a minister even). Another was an Orthodox nun (Mother Maria of Paris). So I'm not the sort that believes in a Lutherans-only section in heaven. I'm just proud of the intellectual rigor of our church, that we tend to reject gross errors in theology and to seek a clear proclamation of the Good News of God's love for those who are despairing, marginalized, or oppressed.

It should actually be very clear why they read the bible as they do. Common sense needs to play a role at some point in this.

Common sense is often just prejudice and ignorance under another name. We need to be more critical than that in reading the Scriptures.

 

[FireDragon76]

Exactly, they want both very badly so they create a world that allows that.

I'd like to have half dozen wives too, but I can't, and it's just not worth my eternity to do that or any other sin perpetually or convince myself something so clear is not sisn. Still, I'd guess there are those who have made that ok in their mind in spite of scripture saying no..

You seriously think God is going to throw you out if you are polygamous? The Gospel has set you free.

Personally, I think 12 wives is asking for a big headache and I don't think its wise, but why assume that God is going to reject you over something so trivial? That's not who I see in Jesus. Jesus is the very image of God. He had compassion to all sorts of people and was not particularly interested in moral purity. He was more interested in helping people recognize their own dignity as human beings, and to live accordingly to that, and his harsh warnings were reserved for those who abused others and neglected to care for others.

 

[JackRT]

Some years ago I spoke with a visiting Muslim professor and asked him if he had ever considered taking three more wives. He looked at me with astonishment "Do you think I am crazy???!!"