Liberal/Progressive Christians

[NW82]

How do those who claim to be Christians equate the teaching of Christ and the Bible, with their views on homosexuality, abortion and general leftist viewpoints?

 

[SkyWriting]

How do those who claim to be Christians equate the teaching of Christ and the Bible, with their views on homosexuality, abortion and general leftist viewpoints?

The Old "Conservative":
2 Corinthians 3:3
And you show that you are a letter from Christ delivered by us, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.

2 Corinthians 3:7
Now if the ministry of death, carved in letters on stone, came with such glory that the Israelites could not gaze at Moses' face because of its glory, which was being brought to an end,


And the New "Liberal":
Matthew 7:12
“So whatever you wish that others would do to you, do also to them,
for this is the foundation of Law and the Prophets.

Psalm 51:10
Create in me a clean heart, O God, and renew a right spirit within me.

Ezekiel 36:26
And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.

1 Corinthians 13:4-8
Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; it does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth. Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Love never ends. As for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away.

1 Corinthians 16:14
Let all that you do be done in love.

1 John 4:8
Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love.

John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

John 13:34-35
A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another. By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”

Colossians 3:14
And above all these put on love, which binds everything together in perfect harmony.

1 Peter 4:8
Above all, keep loving one another earnestly, since love covers a multitude of sins.

 

[All Englands Skies]

How do those who claim to be Christians equate the teaching of Christ and the Bible, with their views on homosexuality, abortion and general leftist viewpoints?

Same way as "right wing" and "Conservative" Christians can sometimes be heartless to fellow mankind, seeing nation as more important than the faith, look down on certain people, etc.

More and more I am seeing that "left wing" and "right wing" should have no place in the Christian faith, each "side" contradicts biblical teachings, using the bits that support their world view and ignoring the others.

An example is the stance on Muslims;

Left wing: treat Islam as an equal religion and just "another path to God", this is completely against biblical warnings, Islam is the religion of a false prophet.


Right Wing: Lets kick out anybody who identifies as Muslim and ban them from the Country. this is against biblical teaching, we're supposed to help all people, even those grossly misguided.

yet Christians seem to be flocking to one side of these two camps and its pitiful.

 

[archer75]

How do those who claim to be Christians equate the teaching of Christ and the Bible, with their views on homosexuality, abortion and general leftist viewpoints?

There will be a slightly different answer for every person. But just as with right-wing people, the answer in many instances is "I edit for convenience."

 

[Residential Bob]

How do those who claim to be Christians equate the teaching of Christ and the Bible, with their views on homosexuality, abortion and general leftist viewpoints?

These kinds of behaviors of the left - debauchery, the Bible calls them - are the domain of the left, to be sure, which is contrary to the kingdom. But more than just behavior, the Scriptures divide the very ideologies.

In the kingdom, Christians seek no single unifying leader to call teacher or father (Mt 23:8-9). In the decentralized leadership of the church, no hierarchy subjugates the inhabitants, no taxing authority oppresses them, no regulatory body directs them, no central authority oversees them. Their living temple has no altar, ritual, or mandate. By design, the church is a temple of equals (Mt 20:25-28).

This is republicanism, the form of government of the United States certainly before the Progressive Era, and even before the Constitution. Christianity thrived much more in America's past than it does in her present, where progressivism has become inextricably linked to her culture.

 

[Cnnsdc63]

I believe as one who believes Jesus Christ, it’s not my job to judge other people. My sins are no better or no worse than the sin of others. When Jesus healed the multitudes I am sure some of those people where gay, guilty of adultery and thieves etc. None of this is new. Jesus doesn’t condemn. He blesses us and makes us a blessing, not the other way around. The world may condemn, so I suggest not to be of the world, be of Jesus Christ.

 

[JackRT]

How do those who claim to be Christians equate the teaching of Christ and the Bible, with their views on homosexuality, abortion and general leftist viewpoints?

I am a progressive Christian but progressives or liberals, like protestants, are a very diverse bunch so I can only speak for myself. Your words suggest that a leftist point of view is somehow not compatible with the teachings of Jesus and the Bible. Jesus himself was extremely anti-establishment, so he certainly wasn't conservative --- we might even call him progressive or even beyond that ---radical. In his dealings with people he was open and accepting, even of gentiles, of women, of the dregs of society, of sinners. He cured them, he healed them, he forgave them, he fed them --- this sounds very much like "social gospel" to me. You also focus on two "problems", homosexuality and abortion. In my conversations with conservative Christians I sometimes get the impression that they regard these as the only "sins" worth worrying about.

Concerning homosexuality Lynn Lavner writes "The Bible contains six admonishments to homosexuals and 362 admonishments to heterosexuals. That doesn't mean that God doesn't love heterosexuals. It's just that they seem to need more supervision." And in those six instances the Bible is not talking about loving, faithful, exclusive relationships but rather such things as homosexual rape, temple prostitution and lustful relationships like orgies.

Concerning abortion I have never encountered a progressive Christian who was "pro-abortion", they are pro-life in the sense that they want to see abortion become very rare. I am against abortion beyond the twentieth week except in very rare extreme circumstances.. Otherwise I believe that abortion should be legal, it should be safe, it should be available and it should be the woman’s informed choice but most important of all --- it should be rare. In conclusion, we should always keep in mind that there are no more powerful abortifacients in the world than poverty and ignorance.

I hope that I have answered your questions.

 

[Roidecoeur78]

Same way as "right wing" and "Conservative" Christians can sometimes be heartless to fellow mankind, seeing nation as more important than the faith, look down on certain people, etc.

More and more I am seeing that "left wing" and "right wing" should have no place in the Christian faith, each "side" contradicts biblical teachings, using the bits that support their world view and ignoring the others.

An example is the stance on Muslims;

Left wing: treat Islam as an equal religion and just "another path to God", this is completely against biblical warnings, Islam is the religion of a false prophet.


Right Wing: Lets kick out anybody who identifies as Muslim and ban them from the Country. this is against biblical teaching, we're supposed to help all people, even those grossly misguided.

yet Christians seem to be flocking to one side of these two camps and its pitiful.

Yep, when both "sides" are in the wrong it wouldn't be wise to take up with either of them.

 

[NW82]

I am a progressive Christian but progressives or liberals, like protestants, are a very diverse bunch so I can only speak for myself. Your words suggest that a leftist point of view is somehow not compatible with the teachings of Jesus and the Bible. Jesus himself was extremely anti-establishment, so he certainly wasn't conservative --- we might even call him progressive or even beyond that ---radical. In his dealings with people he was open and accepting, even of gentiles, of women, of the dregs of society, of sinners. He cured them, he healed them, he forgave them, he fed them --- this sounds very much like "social gospel" to me. You also focus on two "problems", homosexuality and abortion. In my conversations with conservative Christians I sometimes get the impression that they regard these as the only "sins" worth worrying about.

Concerning homosexuality Lynn Lavner writes "The Bible contains six admonishments to homosexuals and 362 admonishments to heterosexuals. That doesn't mean that God doesn't love heterosexuals. It's just that they seem to need more supervision." And in those six instances the Bible is not talking about loving, faithful, exclusive relationships but rather such things as homosexual rape, temple prostitution and lustful relationships like orgies.

Concerning abortion I have never encountered a progressive Christian who was "pro-abortion", they are pro-life in the sense that they want to see abortion become very rare. I am against abortion beyond the twentieth week except in very rare extreme circumstances.. Otherwise I believe that abortion should be legal, it should be safe, it should be available and it should be the woman’s informed choice but most important of all --- it should be rare. In conclusion, we should always keep in mind that there are no more powerful abortifacients in the world than poverty and ignorance.

I hope that I have answered your questions.

So thanks for your reply, but you are assuming that I think these are the only signs worth mentioning. They are not, living in perpetual sin...any sin, is not good. But these two seems to be the hot button issue of late. My point is, how can sin be supported when the bible, Chirst included, spoke out against it. In effect the ideology supports and professes sin is good.

 

[Roidecoeur78]

How do those who claim to be Christians equate the teaching of Christ and the Bible, with their views on homosexuality, abortion and general leftist viewpoints?

The level of individualism and competition originating from the Western hemisphere, regardless of a person's professed political stance or faith, seems completely opposite to Christ's message and example. The book of acts illustrates a community living as a family, practicing and relying on God's love, and sharing all things in common, selling their possessions and lands to support the weak, poor, and infirm that are not even blood relatives. When the main political point has to do with "who's going to pay for this?" it's highly unlikely a person is operating from a saved position.

While many of the "left" seem to be defending the individual's right to choose their preferred idols/sins, it appears that many on the "right" want to be the ones to choose which idols/sins are acceptable according to their own perceived bias and self-righteousness. The blind are vying against one another so that they might be king of the ditch for a moment or two; but so long as they are both acting like the Pharisees, sitting in judgment of others to maintain their own claim that they are right, they will remain blind and in the ditch.

 

[Albion]

How do those who claim to be Christians equate the teaching of Christ and the Bible, with their views on homosexuality, abortion and general leftist viewpoints?

Oh, they usually say that God loves everybody, so whatever it is...it's okay.

 

[FireDragon76]

I guess I am not the conventional religious person in the US that is authoritarian and has a deep seated need to control and regulate the lives of others. From that perspective, the teachings of Jesus look entirely different.

 

[NW82]

I guess I am not the conventional religious person in the US that is authoritarian and has a deep seated need to control and regulate the lives of others. From that perspective, the teachings of Jesus look entirely different.

Thanks for replying. From that perspective how do you view living in unrepentant sin? Most conservative Christians I know aren't authoritarian, and want less regulation. For them it's about biblical right and wrong. I agree about loving others, but sometimes that love must come in the form of telling people the truth. Would you agree or disagree there?

 

[grasping the after wind]

I guess I am not the conventional religious person in the US that is authoritarian and has a deep seated need to control and regulate the lives of others. From that perspective, the teachings of Jesus look entirely different.

The question was asked of liberal /progressives. If you do not have a deep seated need to control and regulate the lives of others how could you be a liberal/progressive?

 

[NW82]

The level of individualism and competition originating from the Western hemisphere, regardless of a person's professed political stance or faith, seems completely opposite to Christ's message and example. The book of acts illustrates a community living as a family, practicing and relying on God's love, and sharing all things in common, selling their possessions and lands to support the weak, poor, and infirm that are not even blood relatives. When the main political point has to do with "who's going to pay for this?" it's highly unlikely a person is operating from a saved position.

While many of the "left" seem to be defending the individual's right to choose their preferred idols/sins, it appears that many on the "right" want to be the ones to choose which idols/sins are acceptable according to their own perceived bias and self-righteousness. The blind are vying against one another so that they might be king of the ditch for a moment or two; but so long as they are both acting like the Pharisees, sitting in judgment of others to maintain their own claim that they are right, they will remain blind and in the ditch.

I don't disagree with some points you've made. I would ask though, is it biblical to expect more from others than yourself? That seems to be the issue I'm seeing. If everyone is paying the same amount in taxes, which the more wealthy actually pay more, but assuming everyone paid the same, why are liberal folks stating some need to pay more? That's not brotherly.

As far as the perception of picking and choosing what sins are ok, personally I don't see that. I think having those living in sin stating, you must accept and agree with my sin is the problem. Two wrongs don't make a right. If someone says homosexuality is wrong, and the retort is x other sin is also wrong, does that negate the wrongdoing of homosexuality?

 

[grasping the after wind]

I don't disagree with some points you've made. I would ask though, is it biblical to expect more from others than yourself? That seems to be the issue I'm seeing. If everyone is paying the same amount in taxes, which the more wealthy actually pay more, but assuming everyone paid the same, why are liberal folks stating some need to pay more? That's not brotherly.

As far as the perception of picking and choosing what sins are ok, personally I don't see that. I think having those living in sin stating, you must accept and agree with my sin is the problem. Two wrongs don't make a right. If someone says homosexuality is wrong, and the retort is x other sin is also wrong, does that negate the wrongdoing of homosexuality?

It is not just a matter of being repentant rather than seeking self justification by pointing the finger at other's sins. Though I do see that behavior in people and I also see that people usually rate their own sins as less malevolent than the sins of others. Always trying to remind myself that I am also included in that group as I too am a people. There is a difference of opinion on the issue of whether being homosexual is a sin and whether homosexual relationships are sinful. Those are two different things and there is a wide range of thought on them. Then there is the problem of whether a homosexual relationship is the equivalent of a heterosexual relationship according to how God created the world and what he intends for us. The differences of opinion are vast on all these things.

 

[NW82]

It is not just a matter of being repentant rather than seeking self justification by pointing the finger at other's sins. Though I do see that behavior in people and I also see that people usually rate their own sins as less malevolent than the sins of others. Always trying to remind myself that I am also included in that group as I too am a people. There is a difference of opinion on the issue of whether being homosexual is a sin and whether homosexual relationships are sinful. Those are two different things and there is a wide range of thought on them. Then there is the problem of whether a homosexual relationship is the equivalent of a heterosexual relationship according to how God created the world and what he intends for us. The differences of opinion are vast on all these things.

I agree there are differences of opinion, however among Christians there is no debate, or rather there should be no debate. The Bible as a whole, Christ includedade clear that homosexuality is a sin. With that in mind there is no debate, unless of course someone wished to say Christ is wrong...I know I don't.

 

[grasping the after wind]

I agree there are differences of opinion, however among Christians there is no debate, or rather there should be no debate. The Bible as a whole, Christ includedade clear that homosexuality is a sin. With that in mind there is no debate, unless of course someone wished to say Christ is wrong...I know I don't.

I may well agree with you that the Bible is fairly clear that homosexual activity( not necessarily the attraction to those of the same sex) is a sin. I do not , however, recall anything that Christ is quoted as saying on the subject that is definite in that regard. I don't think that the vast majority of people that do not consider homosexuality or homosexual sexual acts as sins are claiming that Christ is wrong. I would question the idea that homosexual marriage is legitimate based upon Christ's quoted reaffirmation of the traditional definition of marriage found elsewhere in the Bible.

 

[NW82]

I may well agree with you that the Bible is fairly clear that homosexual activity( not necessarily the attraction to those of the same sex) is a sin. I do not , however, recall anything that Christ is quoted as saying on the subject that is definite in that regard. I don't think that the vast majority of people that do not consider homosexuality or homosexual sexual acts as sins are claiming that Christ is wrong. I would question the idea that homosexual marriage is legitimate based upon Christ's quoted reaffirmation of the traditional definition of marriage found elsewhere in the Bible.

To be fair when I say Christ, I am specifically referring to Revelation 21:8. As well as Matthew 19:4-6.

 

[FireDragon76]

The question was asked of liberal /progressives. If you do not have a deep seated need to control and regulate the lives of others how could you be a liberal/progressive?

I'm Left-Libertarian in political orientation.