*Liberal Christians Only* The topic is J.K. Rowling

GACfan

Well-Known Member
Aug 15, 2019
1,958
2,257
Texas
✟77,930.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
*** NOTE: You are in the Liberal Christian faith group forum ***

This thread is for liberal Christians. If you are not a liberal Christian, then please abide by the House Rules of this sub-forum and the Congregational Forum Restrictions. Members who do not share the core beliefs and teachings of this group aren't allowed to debate or teach against its theology.

House Rules: All posts within this faith community must adhere to the site wide rules found here (Community Rules). In addition, if you are not a member of this faith group, you may not debate issues or teach against it's theology. You may post in fellowship. Active promotion of views contrary to the established teachings of this group will be considered off topic. - WWMC Statement of Purpose

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

As an avid fan of the wizarding world of Harry Potter within the vast Potterverse, I felt the need to address the mockery of the fans who have spoken out against Rowling because of her controversial tweet concerning trans rights. Hence, this thread. As a longtime fan, I can verify the fact that she is disliked and unpopular among many HP fans around the world. She has even been deemed irrelevant to the fandom. Like so many other Harry Potter fans, I feel she is an antiquated piece of our fandom who no longer represents who we are. We have simply outgrown her. Many fans collectively feel that her sheer determination to remain relevant has grown tiresome. The fandom has become so much more than her and it has grown beyond her. Many fans think that she is refusing to accept this fact.

Sadly, she has been a renowned transphobic person for years. I think it's really a shame. It’s hard to love the books so much and yet find yourself conflicted by the author’s beliefs. The Potterverse is a beautiful fandom filled with people from all walks of life. I have been part of the Harry Potter fandom for many years and I know it to be accepting and inclusive. It is for this very reason that I find myself disappointed with J.K. Rowling. Yes, she is entitled to her opinion, but that doesn't mean HP fans have to agree with her and remain silent. We have taken a stand for trans rights and have called her out.

Pottercast: 15.2: Sorting It Out: J.K. Rowling, transphobia, and what just happened to our community (with Jackson Bird) - PotterCast: The Harry Potter podcast since 2005
 

Silmarien

Existentialist
Feb 24, 2017
4,337
5,254
38
New York
✟215,724.00
Country
United States
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat
I was less than thrilled with the backlash against Rowling. I think there's something very totalitarian about someone losing their job for merely stating an unpopular opinion, and I think we're in the realm of thoughtcrime when we argue that people are infringing our rights by not agreeing with us.

I think this is symptomatic of a larger problem in progressive culture, though. We do not allow dissent in any way whatsoever. You must be with us in absolutely everything, or you are the enemy. (I tend to see this in feminist circles also.)
 
Upvote 0

GACfan

Well-Known Member
Aug 15, 2019
1,958
2,257
Texas
✟77,930.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
It's not realistic to think J.K. Rowling will never face criticism from Harry Potter fans. As I said, she is entitled to her own opinion, but she is not entitled to never be questioned or criticized. She is not free from the consequences of people disagreeing with her opinion. She is very political and she purposely puts herself out in the public eye. She's a smart woman, so I'm sure she expected the backlash.

ReponsetoRowling.png
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

GACfan

Well-Known Member
Aug 15, 2019
1,958
2,257
Texas
✟77,930.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Who said I'm defecting from the Harry Potter fandom? I never said I'm defecting. I've never heard any other HP fan say they are defecting because of her opinion and what she tweeted. I have been in this fandom for 20 years now. I raised my children in this fandom. I love it very much and I'm not leaving.
 
Upvote 0

Silmarien

Existentialist
Feb 24, 2017
4,337
5,254
38
New York
✟215,724.00
Country
United States
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat
It's not realistic to think J.K. Rowling will never face criticism from Harry Potter fans. As I said, she is entitled to her own opinion, but she is not entitled to never be questioned or criticized. She is not free from the consequences of people disagreeing with her opinion. She is very political and she purposely puts herself out in the public eye. She's a smart woman, so I'm sure she expected the backlash.

I don't have a problem with Harry Potter fans criticizing J.K. Rowling, though I do think it's a bit silly to expect an author to agree with you on everything. I'm still old school with my fantasy--J.R.R. Tolkien and C.S. Lewis forever, and some of the statements they made about women were positively medieval. I would hesitate to describe them as misogynistic, though, since to the best of my knowledge, neither of them actually treated women badly because of it.

I do think that this particular situation is very problematic, given the way it avoids the underlying question of what is considered transphobic. Slurs directed at transgendered people are clearly transphobic, and I think adamantly refusing to address them according to their preferences would be as well. Does skepticism on the ontological status of transpeople constitute transphobia, though? I think we cross into thought-crime when we insist that people must believe exactly as we do to be worthy of respect, and I don't see it as being inclusive and accepting.

People can get very totalitarian with this sort of stuff. I've seen some feminists claim that even the position that abortion is immoral but should be legal is misogynistic and unworthy of respect. I think the moral coerciveness underneath a claim like that is out of this world. Progressivism in general needs to have a conversation over what is and isn't discrimination, and what role freedom of speech ought to have in modern society, because as things stand, all we're really running on is power dynamics and shame tactics.

This has been a frustration of mine for a while, but it plays in with what's going on with J.K. Rowling right now.
 
Upvote 0

bekkilyn

Contemplative Christian
Supporter
Apr 27, 2017
7,612
8,475
USA
✟677,608.00
Country
United States
Faith
Methodist
Marital Status
Celibate
Politics
US-Others
While I read the Harry Potter books and enjoyed them, I don't keep up with the fandom part of everything outside of taking the test and somehow getting sorted into Slytherin. :)

Anyway, can someone please state just what Rowling's view on transgenderism is for the sake of this discussion?

Personally, I don't really believe there is a such thing as male or female outside of one's biology and believe that gender is entirely a social construct, so in one sense I suppose that could be considered "transphobic," but at the same time, I don't at all believe that people should be discriminated against for whatever gender/sex they decide they are to be, and take a very live and let live approach about it. If they want to be called him/her/sie/hie, whatever, I'm happy to call them whatever they want and they are still the same person to me no matter what, so in that sense, it could be considered trans-supportive.

And yet, I do think that growing up with a particular body is going to experience a lot of things related to their biology that a transgendered person will never experience. Someone who lived much of their lives as a biological male is going to greatly benefit from that privilege despite feeling as if they are the wrong gender. They are also not going to have to live with menstruation for every single month for decades of their lives, not have pregnancy concerns, etc.

I think it gets pretty complicated when we try to categorize people strictly by gender or sex and so I really tend to prefer meeting people wherever they are as individuals, with gender or biological sex as only one trait out of many traits that make up who they are as a person.

I'm also thinking that if we didn't so strongly discriminate against people by their gender/sex in the first place, then this whole issue would be a lot less of a thing all around.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Silmarien
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

bekkilyn

Contemplative Christian
Supporter
Apr 27, 2017
7,612
8,475
USA
✟677,608.00
Country
United States
Faith
Methodist
Marital Status
Celibate
Politics
US-Others
I wonder if she's made a response to the response. Currently, I see her response as possibly problematic, but maybe not as problematic as some people are making it out to be if she really just doesn't want someone getting fired for thinking something. I guess it might also depend on whether or not this researcher is actually responsible for hiring and firing people (which could directly affect the livelihoods of transgender people) vs. just someone with an opinion, right or wrong as it may be.
 
Upvote 0

GACfan

Well-Known Member
Aug 15, 2019
1,958
2,257
Texas
✟77,930.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Rowling hasn't tweeted a response to the backlash and she hasn't commented about it otherwise. It would literally be all over the Pottersphere if she had said something and it would also be in the news. She doesn't tweet that often anymore. She had a six month hiatus from Twitter a few weeks ago. She came back with a single tweet and caused a massive amount of excitement and speculation among HP fans with an elusive message and new design for the Cursed Child. Many fans thought she was hinting at a Cursed Child movie, but it was just her promoting the new Cursed Child play design. I remember because I spent a lot of time helping to squash the many rumors about a new Harry Potter movie.

On a side note, I don't think she will respond to the backlash, which is fine with me. I think it's sad that she's alienating a lot of the Harry Potter fanbase and fans are more than willing to let her go.
 
Upvote 0

bekkilyn

Contemplative Christian
Supporter
Apr 27, 2017
7,612
8,475
USA
✟677,608.00
Country
United States
Faith
Methodist
Marital Status
Celibate
Politics
US-Others
Rowling hasn't tweeted a response to the backlash and she hasn't commented about it otherwise. It would literally be all over the Pottersphere if she had said something and it would also be in the news. She doesn't tweet that often anymore. She had a six month hiatus from Twitter a few weeks ago. She came back with a single tweet and caused a massive amount of excitement and speculation among HP fans with an elusive message and new design for the Cursed Child. Many fans thought she was hinting at a Cursed Child movie, but it was just her promoting the new Cursed Child play design. I remember because I spent a lot of time helping to squash the many rumors about a new Harry Potter movie.

On a side note, I don't think she will respond to the backlash, which is fine with me. I think it's sad that she's alienating a lot of the Harry Potter fanbase and fans are more than willing to let her go.

I'm fortunate in the sense that I can usually separate my love for an artist's work from my personal feelings concerning the artist. One big exception it's very obvious the artist is using their art to preach their own views vs. the characters having real voices of their own, and it's especially disconcerting when the characters start spouting Ayn Rand type statements in a fantasy or ancient world setting.

While Rowling may leave out transgender persons from her books, she's also not peppering her books with anti-transgender propaganda, so even if I come out on the side of thinking she's being a jerk, if I'm not seeing that jerkiness in her books, it's very unlikely my interest in the books would be affected in any major way. I typically don't even think about the authors at all when I'm reading.
 
Upvote 0

Silmarien

Existentialist
Feb 24, 2017
4,337
5,254
38
New York
✟215,724.00
Country
United States
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat
I wonder if she's made a response to the response. Currently, I see her response as possibly problematic, but maybe not as problematic as some people are making it out to be if she really just doesn't want someone getting fired for thinking something. I guess it might also depend on whether or not this researcher is actually responsible for hiring and firing people (which could directly affect the livelihoods of transgender people) vs. just someone with an opinion, right or wrong as it may be.

Here's an article about Maya Forstater: Maya Forstater’s case was about protected beliefs, not trans rights | Gaby Hinsliff

What I find very strange is that it explicitly says that she will use preferred pronouns out of politeness but doesn't feel bound to, but then that the ruling held that her desire to be able to refer to someone by the sex she felt appropriate violated human dignity. Unless she's passive aggressively telling people that she's only being polite (which I suppose is possible), I'm not sure how simply holding a view creates a hostile work environment.

Looking into it a bit further, a couple of additional sources: Is J.K. Rowling transphobic? Who is Maya Forstater? Your questions about the U.K. scandal answered

Why should the rights of trans people transcend the rights of women to speak the truth?

And a very negative one: Opinion | J.K. Rowling's #IStandWithMaya tweets support the creator of a hostile work environment

So this whole controversy seems to be coming from feminist resistance to transgender rights and concerns over what they mean for women's rights more broadly, in the context of a proposed change to British law. It also isn't clear to me if the hostile environment that Forstater is said to have been causing came about merely because she was posting unpopular opinions on Twitter, or due to actual behavior at work. In the second case, harassment would be a clear issue, but I have serious concerns if this was exclusively due to expressing politicized opinions on Twitter.

it's especially disconcerting when the characters start spouting Ayn Rand type statements in a fantasy or ancient world setting.

I take it you've read Terry Goodkind. ^_^
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

bekkilyn

Contemplative Christian
Supporter
Apr 27, 2017
7,612
8,475
USA
✟677,608.00
Country
United States
Faith
Methodist
Marital Status
Celibate
Politics
US-Others
Here's an article about Maya Forstater: Maya Forstater’s case was about protected beliefs, not trans rights | Gaby Hinsliff

What I find very strange is that it explicitly says that she will use preferred pronouns out of politeness but doesn't feel bound to, but then that the ruling held that her desire to be able to refer to someone by the sex she felt appropriate violated human dignity. Unless she's passive aggressively telling people that she's only being polite (which I suppose is possible), I'm not sure how simply holding a view creates a hostile work environment.

Looking into it a bit further, a couple of additional sources: Is J.K. Rowling transphobic? Who is Maya Forstater? Your questions about the U.K. scandal answered

Why should the rights of trans people transcend the rights of women to speak the truth?

And a very negative one: Opinion | J.K. Rowling's #IStandWithMaya tweets support the creator of a hostile work environment

So this whole controversy seems to be coming from feminist resistance to transgender rights and concerns over what they mean for women's rights more broadly, in the context of a proposed change to British law. It also isn't clear to me if the hostile environment that Forstater is said to have been causing came about merely because she was posting unpopular opinions on Twitter, or due to actual behavior at work. In the second case, harassment would be a clear issue, but I have serious concerns if this was exclusively due to expressing politicized opinions on Twitter.



I take it you've read Terry Goodkind. ^_^

LOL I can't say I'm very *well* read when it comes to Goodkind, but he was definitely among those I had in mind!

Thanks for the links!

I do admit that I am also concerned over how transgender rights will affect women's rights in general, because while I concede that people are telling the truth about how they feel they are on the inside, whatever that actually means (because I still really don't know what "feeling like women" or "feeling like a man" even means), they still were given the *choice* of whether or not they wanted to reveal their gender to the world or keep it in the closet and go on with being a man on the outside with all the privileges of that sex. People who are born women don't have that choice at all and can't just choose to turn it on and off based on whatever is most convenient. If I don't feel like having a period that month, well that's just tough and no amount of dressing so that people might be tricked into thinking I'm a man is going to change that! (And I'm not claiming that most transgender people choose to do so, but the fact is that until they have the surgeries, they *can* do so and born women cannot.)
 
  • Informative
Reactions: Silmarien
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Skittles

Active Member
Apr 4, 2019
98
115
57
Southeast
✟38,305.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
She’s sold > 500 million books and the movie franchise grossed over $6.5 billion

She had her views and shares them as she sees fit. I doubt she WANTS to upset the subset of fans in the “Potterverse” but also probably doesn’t feel a need to get the “ok” from fans on her opinions.

At a practical level if she wrote another Harry Potter book those offended could boycott all they want out of principle and the book would likely still sell 70 million copies and the inevitable movie would likely gross close to $100 million. She made the stories and the alternate world, not the fans.
 
Upvote 0

SkyWriting

The Librarian
Supporter
Jan 10, 2010
37,279
8,499
Milwaukee
✟410,918.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
*** NOTE: You are in the Liberal Christian faith group forum ***

As an avid fan of the wizarding world of Harry Potter within the vast Potterverse, I felt the need to address the mockery of the fans who have spoken out against Rowling because of her controversial tweet concerning trans rights. Hence, this thread. As a longtime fan, I can verify the fact that she is disliked and unpopular among many HP fans around the world. She has even been deemed irrelevant to the fandom. Like so many other Harry Potter fans, I feel she is an antiquated piece of our fandom who no longer represents who we are. We have simply outgrown her. Many fans collectively feel that her sheer determination to remain relevant has grown tiresome. The fandom has become so much more than her and it has grown beyond her. Many fans think that she is refusing to accept this fact.

Sadly, she has been a renowned transphobic person for years. I think it's really a shame. It’s hard to love the books so much and yet find yourself conflicted by the author’s beliefs. The Potterverse is a beautiful fandom filled with people from all walks of life. I have been part of the Harry Potter fandom for many years and I know it to be accepting and inclusive. It is for this very reason that I find myself disappointed with J.K. Rowling. Yes, she is entitled to her opinion, but that doesn't mean HP fans have to agree with her and remain silent. We have taken a stand for trans rights and have called her out.

Pottercast: 15.2: Sorting It Out: J.K. Rowling, transphobia, and what just happened to our community (with Jackson Bird) - PotterCast: The Harry Potter podcast since 2005


We can be loving, open and accepting of her and other people like her.
That is an option we have. We can even think of her as relevant if we wish.
Almost like members of our family.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0