liberal Christians and "God never lies"

[FireDragon76]

If i understood the OP's post correctly, he wrote that in essence the Bible contains contradictions in order that faith may be established. However that premise is not well-founded as it assumes that faith and facts are mutually exclusive. One can have have a well-informed faith based upon facts. For example, the disciples themselves were eye witnesses to Jesus' death/resurrection and proclaimed the risen Lord as central to the veracity of Jesus' claim to be the Messiah.
It is a slippery slope once one begins to pick and choose which parts of the Bible are factual and which are not.

Have any of us actually seen Jesus, though, to verify this suppossed facticity? Those of us in mainline churches are tired of the blood and tears over trying to parse out who is and is not a bona fide card-carrying Christian, so we just ultimately focus on leaving it in God/Jesus hands. People are invited to believe, and we celebrate the faith that people have (no matter how modest), but ultimately faith is the Holy Spirit's job.

 

[hedrick]

If i understood the OP's post correctly, he wrote that in essence the Bible contains contradictions in order that faith may be established.

I didnt understand that. Or maybe disagree. If we’re going to follow Jesus, we have to know about him, and what he wants from us.

 

[Oldmantook]

Have any of us actually seen Jesus, though, to verify this suppossed facticity? Those of us in mainline churches are tired of the blood and tears over trying to parse out who is and is not a bona fide card-carrying Christian, so we just ultimately focus on leaving it in God/Jesus hands. People are invited to believe, and we celebrate the faith that people have (no matter how modest), but ultimately faith is the Holy Spirit's job.

Your premise - that we would have had to seen Jesus for ourselves to establish fact - is faulty in my opinion. One can establish facts based upon testimony of others present at that time. We don't have to be there. The discovery of this kind of factual evidence takes place every day in our judicial settings where witnesses give their testimony and are cross-examined to determine the veracity of their testimony. The Bible itself states that facts are established on the testimony of two or three witnesses (2 Cor 13:1). That is precisely the reason that the disciples were able to proclaim the gospel which is based on their eye-witness testimony of the risen Lord.

 

[Oldmantook]

I didnt understand that. Or maybe disagree. If we’re going to follow Jesus, we have to know about him, and what he wants from us.

My guess is I think he meant that genuine faith constitutes a "blind faith". That is why the Bible has contradictions in order that our faith my be established (despite those supposed contradictions).

 

[Radagast]

I am interested because I also don't believe some parts aren't historical
e.g.
An Uncensored Guide to the Christmas Stories

You are simply wrong about the Christmas stories.

 

[FreeinChrist]

MOD HAT

As a reminder, the
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This is a forum where non-Christian Seekers are encouraged to ask questions about those aspects of the Christian faith which seem hard to understand or accept, and where Christian members (see Faith groups list) can enter into discussion with them on these questions. The primary focus of this forum is Christian evangelism and discipleship, not to debate Christian Theology or challenge, attack, or argue against, Christianity. If any non-Christian member would like to challenge Christianity, they may do so in the Christian Apologetics forum. Please read and agree with this thread before posting in the Christian Apologetics forum.

A clean up was done. ​

 

[hedrick]

My guess is I think he meant that genuine faith constitutes a "blind faith". That is why the Bible has contradictions in order that our faith my be established (despite those supposed contradictions).

I looked at his explanations again. Maybe I sort of agree, though not with the way he explains it. The Bible has multiple perspectives on most major issues. We have two creation stories, at least two version of the Noah story, both the perspectives of Leviticus and the prophets on what matters, 4 Gospels, and both Paul and James. Why wouldn't God have inspired a single set of writers to produce a consistent, systematic theology? I think we have a clue in the way Jesus taught. He often taught with stories that left us to come to grips with what he meant. In some cases it's hard, and there are often disagreements. Maybe God considers it more important for us to wrestle with the big questions rather than dictating answers.

Note that this shouldn't be carried too far. I don't mean to imply that there's nothing we can know for sure. We know there is one God, that he loves us, that he sent Jesus, that Jesus died and was raised for us, that we are called to follow him, and that we'll be judged on how we respond to that.

 

[Uber Genius]

19 And Micaiah said, “Therefore hear the word of the LORD: fI saw the LORD sitting on his throne, gand all the host of heaven standing beside him on his right hand and on his left; 20 and the LORD said, ‘Who will entice Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramoth-gilead?’ And one said one thing, and another said another. 21 Then a spirit came forward and stood before the LORD, saying, ‘I will entice him.’ 22 And the LORD said to him, ‘By what means?’ And he said, ‘I will go out, and will be ha lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.’ And he said, ‘You are to entice him, and you shall succeed; go out and do so.’ 23 Now therefore behold, the LORD has put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these your prophets; the LORD has declared disaster for you.”” (1 Kings 22:19ff)

Your main premise has just been undercut severely.