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Liberal abortion laws (infanticide)

Discussion in 'General Politics' started by Mark Dohle, Feb 28, 2020.

  1. Mark Dohle

    Mark Dohle Well-Known Member

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    rightsoftheunborn.jpg

    Liberal abortion laws (infanticide)
    This is not about Trump, or liberals, but about basic human rights

    I do not think that all posts on abortion are political in nature. I do not identify with any political party, as do many Americans. Independent voters are becoming more common. I do believe that abortion is a very serious symptom of a culture that has grown used to a certain kind of ‘rot’ and think it is normal. Sort of like the times before the civil rights movement. The corruption of racism was considered normal, and even according to God’s will.

    I do not believe that we can outlaw abortion because of cultural issues, which seem to be a permanent part of life in the United States. So the more liberal laws on abortion, show me a very disturbing trend that will only get worse. We go along, to get along, as the saying goes.

    This is not about Trump or liberals, but about basic human rights, the right to life. For a doctor, as well as nurses to become able to allow a newborn baby to die because of a failed abortion, for me is true horror. And for many people to be Ok with that is a wakeup call I believe for all of us, and actually more horrifying than doctors, and nurses committing legal infanticide.

    Peter Singer, a Utilitarian philosopher, teaches that parents should have up to 30 days to decide if they want to keep the infant or not. He says that an infant is not yet self-conscious, so not human.

    Quote: In 1993, ethicist Peter Singer shocked many Americans by suggesting that no newborn should be considered a person until 30 days after birth and that the attending physician should kill some disabled babies on the spot. Five years later, his appointment as Decamp Professor of Bio-Ethics at Princeton University ignited a firestorm of controversy, though his ideas about abortion and infanticide were hardly new. In 1979 he wrote, “Human babies are not born self-aware, or capable of grasping that they exist over time. They are not persons”; therefore, “the life of a newborn is of less value than the life of a pig, a dog, or a chimpanzee.”1—Unquote
    https://www.equip.org/…/peter-singers-bold-defense-of-infa…/

    It is only a matter of time until the above quote will be accepted by many, perhaps even the majority. It only takes time to adjust what we think is morally acceptable or not. When we lose our sense that we are accountable for our lives and that we will have to face what we have done with our existence, then I believe that what we consider moral, because it is legal, can be in fact an abomination, will become the norm.

    I have no answers, nor a solution for that matter that is an easy fix. We are floating, in a cloud, foggy, and becoming more and more irrational I believe, but much more emotional, angry, and losing the ability to listen to one another.—Br.MD
     
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  2. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    How about what scripture says?


    Hebrews 13:17
    Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they are keeping watch over your souls, as those who will have to give an account. Let them do this with joy and not with groaning, for that would be of no advantage to you.

    1 Peter 2:18-20
    Servants, be subject to your masters with all respect, not only to the good and gentle but also to the unjust. For this is a gracious thing, when, mindful of God, one endures sorrows while suffering unjustly. For what credit is it if, when you sin and are beaten for it, you endure? But if when you do good and suffer for it you endure, this is a gracious thing in the sight of God.

    1 Peter 2:13
    Be subject for the Lord's sake to every human institution, whether it be to the emperor as supreme,

    2 Corinthians 2:9
    For this is why I wrote, that I might test you and know whether you are obedient in everything.

    Romans 13
    Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer.

    Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience.


    John 19:11
    Jesus answered him, “You would have no authority over me at all unless it had been given you from above. Therefore he who delivered me over to you has the greater sin.”

    1 Peter 2:13-17
    Be subject for the Lord's sake to every human institution, whether it be to the emperor as supreme, or to governors as sent by him to punish those who do evil and to praise those who do good. For this is the will of God, that by doing good you should put to silence the ignorance of foolish people. Live as people who are free, not using your freedom as a cover-up for evil, but living as servants of God. Honor everyone. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the emperor.

    Luke 20:25
    He said to them, “Then render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's.”

    Titus 3:1
    Remind them to be submissive to rulers and authorities, to be obedient, to be ready for every good work,

    Proverbs 11:14
    Where there is no guidance, a people falls, but in an abundance of counselors there is safety.
     
  3. redleghunter

    redleghunter Thank You Jesus! Supporter

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    Interesting. The above confirms that abortion should be illegal and government should be enforcing laws protecting innocent life.

    Thanks Sky.
     
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  4. Quartermaine

    Quartermaine Well-Known Member

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    Well, yeah it apparently is.
     
  5. redleghunter

    redleghunter Thank You Jesus! Supporter

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    Really not a cloudy issue.

    The abortion debate comes down to whether or not one sees an unborn human being in the womb as morally equal to all other human beings.
     
  6. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    I have no argument with people wanting to change the laws.
    Yours is the first intelligent answer ever in the last 6 months.
     
  7. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    The laws says different. I'm supposed to remind you of that.


    Titus 3:1
    Remind them to be submissive to rulers and authorities, to be obedient, to be ready for every good work,
     
  8. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    Glad to help!
    Here you go:

    Exodus 22:28
    1 Peter 2:13-17
    2 Peter 2:10
    Titus 3
    1 Timothy 2
    Psalms 22:28
    Daniel 2:20-21
    Romans 13
    Deuteronomy 16:18-20
    Revelation 1
    Romans 13
    Proverbs 21
    John 19:11
    Mark 3:24
    Proverbs 29
    Proverbs 8:15
    Psalms 94:20
    Deuteronomy 28
    Daniel 2:21
    John 19:10-11
    Jude 1:8
    Colossians 1:15-17
    Ecclesiastes 10:20
    Acts 8:32
    Acts 23:5
    Matthew 10:38
     
  9. Mark Dohle

    Mark Dohle Well-Known Member

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    I agree. I meant on a cultural level. It is truly horrifying the way things are going, but not unexpected.

    Peace
    Mark
     
  10. Mark Dohle

    Mark Dohle Well-Known Member

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    Not if the laws are immoral. Other than that, I agree.

    peace
    Mark
     
  11. coffee4u

    coffee4u Well-Known Member

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    Wow, I literally had to close my mouth after reading what you said about the evil that is Peter Singer. Not going to click on the link and expose myself to more of his pure evil. God will surely deal with him.

    If the law is against God's law you do not follow them. Like Daniels's 3 friends you do not bow down to the golden statue.
     
  12. Mark Dohle

    Mark Dohle Well-Known Member

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    We make it so. I know many liberals as well as a few atheists who are pro-life, not that simple when dealing with this issue with real people. It is a good way to sidetrack the issue whenever abortion comes up, some people start in on Trump. The abortion issue will be around no matter who is in office, or what party.

    Peace
    mark
     
  13. Hazelelponi

    Hazelelponi Well-Known Member Supporter

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    How can we go along to get along when it comes to the disregard for human life?

    At what point do we stand and say this is wrong?

    I understand that we live in a fallen and unsaved world, but when it comes to human life I think we must draw the line and say our society cannot simply accept this.

    I believe vaping saves human life, because it offers for people a low cost and highly successful means to quit smoking and end a terrible addiction.

    But as much as I believe in the cause to keep vaping legal and available to adults in our country, I could not have faulted one republican for throwing it all under the bus to make a stand on infanticide today, and I would have stood with them if that addition to the vaping bill had gone through.

    I just think even though we live in this world, we can't just say okay to everything they do. We do have to live in this society too.
     
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  14. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    Killing Jesus hammering nails in his hands was immoral.

    John 19:11
    Jesus answered him, “You would have no authority over me at all
    unless.....it had been given you from above.
     
  15. JackRT

    JackRT OOPS!!! Supporter

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    I agree with an earlier post that stated that attempting to completely ban abortion is futile. However, we have the means at hand to drastically reduce abortion but a great many in the anti-abortion movement are actually working against those means.
     
  16. redleghunter

    redleghunter Thank You Jesus! Supporter

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    Yes every good work. Obeying the murder of innocent blood is not a good work.
     
  17. redleghunter

    redleghunter Thank You Jesus! Supporter

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    What would that be?
     
  18. Quartermaine

    Quartermaine Well-Known Member

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    Personally don't know anyone who isn't prolife
     
  19. JackRT

    JackRT OOPS!!! Supporter

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    If we wish to minimize the abortion rate, making it illegal is the wrong way to go about it. There are nations where abortion is totally illegal and carries severe penalties where the abortion rate is much higher than in nations where it is legal. The reason for this is that the two most potent abortifacients in the world are ignorance and poverty and in those nations you have both. But even in developed nations you can still have ignorance and poverty. In some quarters there is great reluctance to providing sex education, particularly birth control information. The same applies to the provision of pre-natal and post-natal care and delivery at an affordable cost to low income mothers in particular. In some case that would mean at no cost.

    The USA and Canada are both affluent nations. In the USA abortion services are not readily available and attempts are being made to further reduce that availability or eliminate it entirely. In Canada we have universal single payer medical care and there are no abortion laws. Abortion is fully funded under Canadian medicare. Does Canada have a higher rate of abortion? No! The abortion rate in the USA is 50% greater than in Canada.

    I believe that abortion should be legal, it should be safe, it should be available and it should be the woman’s informed choice but most important of all --- it should be rare. In conclusion, we should always keep in mind that there are no more powerful abortifacients in the world than poverty and ignorance.
     
  20. redleghunter

    redleghunter Thank You Jesus! Supporter

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    You speak of minimizing abortion as if it is a funding line in a budget. We speak of a human life not an “issue.”

    Your philosophy begs for a moral premise other than healthcare access. Meaning it is devoid of any consideration for the life of the child in the womb.

    Informed choice seems to be your metric for the premeditated termination of the human being in the womb. Again what moral premise is this based on?

    Finally, there is nothing more ignorant than to blame abortion on poverty.
     
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