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Levi/Simeon Cursed by Jacob & Yet Blessed by God: Did God Reverse Jacob's Judgement?

Discussion in 'Messianic Judaism' started by Gxg (G²), Dec 6, 2012.

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  1. Gxg (G²)

    Gxg (G²) Pilgrim/Monastic on the Road to God (Psalm 84:1-7) Supporter CF Ambassadors

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    Leah and Co. definately weren't what Jacob was expecting - although as other Jewish commentators have said, it's poetic justic to see what occurred when the Lord ensured that Jacob would experience exactly what he did to others like his father.

    Indeed. The fact that sons of Jacob all decieved him just like he did with his own father Isaac, is noteworthy when considering generational curses/blessings.

    Sometimes things being turned around have noting to do with teshuva as much as it does with God's own blessing despite the sins of others - just as he has often done repeatedly when blessing others who didn't deserve it.
    Cool to know, although it wasn't something I was really questioning at any point because of not seeing eye to eye:cool:
    Indeed. It is what it is and folks must be who they are.
     
  2. mercy1061

    mercy1061 Newbie

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    I gathered that much; so please tell me something I do not know about intermarriage.

    The text explicitly states that Sarah was his sister per living testimony via Abraham. I have not went beyond the text, I am reading the text exactly how it was written and published. To call Abraham a liar is NOT reading the text, because there is not one verse in the entire bible that states that Abraham told a lie. There is much speculation and contradiction on your part. How can you claim to be Abraham's son and then disrespect your father; the Torah requires that we honor our mother and father.

    Gal 3
    29 And now that you belong to Christ, you are the true children[p] of Abraham. You are his heirs, and God’s promise to Abraham belongs to you.


    It is only gathered through "common sense" or deductive reasoning that the firstborn would indicate the eldest son. You are so foolish in your thinking that the firstborn rights would go to the youngest son, because he was born first or left his mother's womb first. You argue a moot point, the firstborn is the "first born" but also the oldest son. A man counts his age in years beginning with the day he was born from his mother's womb. Consequently one man would be considered older than the other with this reasoning. However, YHWH knows whom he created or formed first in their mother's womb, so he chooses whom receives the firstborn rights. First you call Abraham a liar then you argue with YHWH whom he declared Israel is indeed his eldest son.


    1 Tim 2:13
    13 For God made Adam first, and afterward he made Eve.

    As I told you before and I tell you again, Esau was never Jacob's servant; Esau never served Jacob one time. You call YHWH's words a metaphor? First you say we should not go beyond the text, then you call the words from YHWH's own mouth a metaphor. What verse in the bible states that the Word of G-D is ever a metaphor? You call Abraham a liar and you do not believe the words from YHWH. Wow!

    I guess scripture is a metaphor where you say it is a metaphor, and when it says something you do not like, you tell me I am going beyond scripture; although scripture explicitly states what I am saying to you.


    Let me play this game by your rules, the scriptures never say that Judah married Tamar, scripture never says that Rahab was married to Salmon. Since you can not accept the plain words from scripture that Abraham called Sarah his sister, then I can not accept where you add to the scriptures where the scriptures are silent. Although it is generally accepted throughout life and the entire bible that holy men do not marry prostitutes.

    Rev 22
    19 And if anyone removes any of the words from this book of prophecy, God will remove that person’s share in the tree of life and in the holy city that are described in this book.
     
  3. Gxg (G²)

    Gxg (G²) Pilgrim/Monastic on the Road to God (Psalm 84:1-7) Supporter CF Ambassadors

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    Already did - whether one deals with it or not. Moving on.
    And the GENEOLOGIES, by which identity is established, do not give mention of her at any point...with the text also noting where he already had a history of lying directly. Scripture with scripture, Bruh - if dealing with the word credibly.

    Actually you already have - several times now. Yedida called you on it as well, as have others.
    Wrong again - and again, to claim otherwise is simply avoiding the text of scripture where the Lord/others noted that Abraham directly lied on several occassions. More was already shared earlier on the issue.



    As said earlier:


    That said..
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2012
  4. mercy1061

    mercy1061 Newbie

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  5. Gxg (G²)

    Gxg (G²) Pilgrim/Monastic on the Road to God (Psalm 84:1-7) Supporter CF Ambassadors

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    One Jewish tradition amongst many others - mainly from Ranshi, whom others have not agreed with fully. It is a Jewish tradition that is accepted, although it has been dismissed a number of times due to Genesis never supporting such ideology - as is the case with many things in Midrash/Talmud and Jewish myths. Haran is the father of Milcah and Iscah, thus they are sisters. But that doesn't make someone just mentioned as Sarai to be Iscah. Abraham was from the upper class of Sumerian society. According to the Sumerian laws of inheritance, when the husband died, his estate passed on to his siblings; his widow aqnd orphaned children then had to exist at their
    mercy. To overcome this, married Sumerian men began to legally adopt their wives as their sisters and to name them as the most faviorite sibling. That way, they got around the Sumerian inheritance law and made sure their wives and children were provided for. Therefore Sarah was the sister of Abraham regardless of of any biological connection. Isaac probably did the same with his wife Rebecca. .....but as it concerns claims of being a "half-sister" or a biological daughter of Terah, that'd be false to claim such and thus Abraham would've been inaccurate to still claim (after getting caught) that Sarah was a "sister" in the sense he conveyed it (biology rather than via relationship/marriage).



    Sarah/Sarai: Bible | Jewish Women's Archive
    Sarah is the wife of Abraham, the mother of Isaac, and thus the ancestress of all Israel. The Bible explains that Sarai was her earlier name and that she was renamed at the annunciation of the birth of Isaac (Gen 17:15).Sarah’s ancestry is not clear. Genesis 11 relates that Abram and his brother Nahor married Sarai and Milcah, respectively (v. 29).It does not name Sarah’s father, even though it relates that Milcah was the daughter of Haran, Terah’s other son, and then names Haran’s other daughter, Iscah. When Gen 11:31 tells that “Terah took his son Abram and his grandson Lot son of Haran, and his daughter-in-law Sarai, his son Abram’s wife” from Ur to Haran, it does not call Sarai Terah’s granddaughter. However, in Genesis 20, when Abraham explains his wife-sister ruse to Abimelech of Gerar, he claims that Sarah is his non-uterine sister (v. 12). This contradiction has led some readers to identify Sarah with the otherwise unknown Iscah. But this would make Sarai Abram’s niece, not his half sister; it would not explain why she is identified as daughter-in-law to Terah, not as his daughter.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2012
  6. FreeinChrist

    FreeinChrist CF Advisory team Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    MOD HAT

    This thread has undergone a clean up and will be closed because of some flaming.

    Folks, you need to refrain from negative comments about other members. Stick to the content of the post and to the topic and not criticizing the member.
     
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