Let's talk about sex, baby.

[helenofbritain]

What the..... ?

Indeed. Though I think geo is illustrating the flaws in the "ask your priest" advice if you ask the 'wrong' priest, not suggesting that abortion is a good idea.

 

[helenofbritain]

I was responding to the assertion that anything a husband and wife do, as long as they're both fine with it, is morally licit. That statement is clearly outside the bounds of Catholic moral theology.

Oh, I know... I'm just musing out loud... I've been reading this thread for days, and your post finally helped me to phrase my thoughts coherently.

With respect to the oral sex to climax thing, the Church obviously cannot define every single thing that could occur in the nedroom. So the question becomes, what is the purpose and proper context of sex, and does a given activity serve that or not?

A good point, and well put.

For a man to deliberately reach climax outside of intercourse is a separation of what are inseparable ends of sex. For a woman to climax during the oral sex doesn't seem problematic, as long as it is a part of the whole sex act and not separate from it.

That makes sense, psysiologically-speaking, but doesn't seem... fair. Still if we have to do childbirth I guess it's only right there are some payoffs

Thankyou for your thoughtful response.

 

[geocajun]

I had to google those, geo But I get that now and I concur. But, for men, I guess this is where the grey area kicks in. Example:

Mr Man is desiring some "variety" (I think that's the word) and Mrs Woman is happy to oblige. Does said variety count as extended foreplay if they move onto sex 5 seconds before he finishes? Or are they being immoral because he almost climaxed - ahem - externally? Or are they immoral because the intent wasn't really to have sex? Or am I over-thinking this?

nah, they can "variety" in foreplay, so long as he completes vaginally.

 

[helenofbritain]

nah, they can "variety" in foreplay, so long as he completes vaginally.

See that's what I figured, but it kinda feels like cheating. Or is this where Pope Pius XII's advice kicks in:

Originally posted by the CCC and PPXII: Sexuality is a source of joy and pleasure:

"The Creator himself . . . established that in the [generative] function, spouses should experience pleasure and enjoyment of body and spirit. Therefore, the spouses do nothing evil in seeking this pleasure and enjoyment. They accept what the Creator has intended for them. At the same time, spouses should know how to keep themselves within the limits of just moderation."

 

[MikeK]

I'm determined to find a way arround this

 

[helenofbritain]

I'm determined to find a way arround this

Not that I want you to overshare, but why?

 

[geocajun]

See that's what I figured, but it kinda feels like cheating. Or is this where Pope Pius XII's advice kicks in:

What you consider "just moderation" may different from what others consider it to be. Variety is a wide range of meanings. There are some things outside of my boundaries (a few, not many ), and some which aren't. I consider those outside my boundaries to be outside of 'just moderation'. It is left to your judgment.

 

[MikeK]

Twofold. Because sometimes oral sex to completion (even on a <gasp!> male) is nice, and because the people that say NFP's half month of abstinence make their relationship stronger are either lying or just very different than me. Mostly I think they're just trying to convince themselves. It's pretty much this or contracept - although that isn't why I started the thread. I just started the thread for something to talk about.

 

[geocajun]

Twofold. Because sometimes oral sex to completion (even on a <gasp!> male) is nice, and because the people that say NFP's half month of abstinence make their relationship stronger are either lying or just very different than me. Mostly I think they're just trying to convince themselves. It's pretty much this or contracept - although that isn't why I started the thread. I just started the thread for something to talk about.

I'll agree that the folks who claim abstaining for 2-3 weeks a month makes their marriage stronger are engaging in some serious self-deception. Imagine how great their marriage would be if they just abstained forever?

 

[helenofbritain]

and because the people that say NFP's half month of abstinence make their relationship stronger are either lying or just very different than me.

It could be worse... owing to mismatched sex drives, that half month of opportunities shrinks rapidly for me

 

[helenofbritain]

I'll agree that the folks who claim abstaining for 2-3 weeks a month makes their marriage stronger are engaging in some serious self-deception. Imagine how great their marriage would be if they just abstained forever?

*HofB counts on her chart* 3 weeks?? That's an unlucky cycle.

 

[geocajun]

*HofB counts on her chart* 3 weeks?? That's an unlucky cycle.

My wife and I have never been able to use NFP reliably. We have to do this "extra careful" method of basically never, ever having sex, and then calling it "NFP". We have an NFP-Only doctor who makes a little progress between pregnancies, but basically he doesn't know what's going on either.

 

[ZooMom]

I generally find that the less people you invite into your bedroom...the less explaining or rationalizing you have to do.

 

[geocajun]

I generally find that the less people you invite into your bedroom...the less explaining or rationalizing you have to do.

lol!

 

[ZooMom]

 

[Miss Shelby]

I generally find that the less people you invite into your bedroom...the less explaining or rationalizing you have to do.

I've got webcam in mine.

 

[ZooMom]

You are so wrong. I love that about you.

 

[MikeK]

I've got webcam in mine.

Chicks with their gizzards in a jar could be a big moneymaker on the fetish scene.

 

[BlessedPearl]

. For a woman to climax during the oral sex doesn't seem problematic, as long as it is a part of the whole sex act and not separate from it.

I disagree. It does not feel natural to climax without intercourse taking place at the same time.

(I hope I can debate here. I am a Catholic, really.)

 

[Filia Mariae]

I disagree. It does not feel natural to climax without intercourse taking place at the same time.

(I hope I can debate here. I am a Catholic, really.)

I think you misunderstood me. I'm not advocating oral sex absent actual intercourse. But many women can't climax during intercourse. Oral sex, as a part of the whole "thing" isn't problematic.