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Featured Let's start at the beginning... Is there a God who knows absolutely everything...?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Neogaia777, Jun 29, 2018.

  1. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    Let's start at the beginning... Is there a God who knows absolutely everything...?

    And, I mean "everything"...?

    And, if so, how so...?

    And, what does he do with this knowledge...?

    Comments...?

    God Bless!

    Also this:

    Is he Christ, and/or is he (also maybe) (or not), is he YHWH...?

    If he's not as Jesus or as a man, then, why is that...?

    And then, if he is YHWH, then why does it not seem like it in the OT...?

    Then, also...?

    How do you say God knows "absolutely everything", and I mean "everything", and yet we still have free will...?

    How does that work...?

    God Bless!
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2018
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  2. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    Is he Christ, and/or is he (also maybe) (or not), is he YHWH...?

    If he's not as Jesus or as a man, then, why is that...?

    And then, if he is YHWH, then why does it not seem like it in the OT...?

    Then, also...?

    How do you say God knows "absolutely everything", and I mean "everything", and yet we still have free will...?

    How does that work...?

    God Bless!
     
  3. Ron Gurley

    Ron Gurley What U See is What U Get!

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    Q: Is there a God who knows absolutely everything?

    A: Yes. The TRI-UNE GOD of the Bible

    "omniscient" ~= all-supremely KNOWING / WISE

    Isaiah 45:7 (NASB)
    The One forming light and creating darkness,
    Causing well-being and creating calamity;
    I am the Lord who does all these.

    Job 12:13...“With Him are wisdom and might; To Him belong counsel and understanding.

    Ecclesiastes 2:26...For to a person who is good in His sight He has given wisdom and knowledge and joy,"...

    Daniel 2:20...“Let the name of God be blessed forever and ever, For wisdom and power belong to Him...."

    1 Chronicles 29:11...Yours, O LORD, is the greatness and the power and the glory and the victory and the majesty, indeed everything that is in the heavens and the earth; Yours is the dominion, O LORD, and You exalt Yourself as head over all.

    Luke 2:40...The Child (Jesus) continued to grow and become strong, increasing in wisdom; and the grace (Spirit) of God was upon Him.

    Romans 11:33...Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and unfathomable His ways!

    1 Corinthians 1:24..."Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God..."

    1 Corinthians 2:7...but we speak God’s wisdom in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God predestined before the ages to our glory;

    1 Samuel 2:3...“ Boast no more so very proudly, Do not let arrogance come out of your mouth;
    For the LORD is a God of knowledge, And with Him actions are weighed. (judged)..."

    Genesis 3:5...For God knows that in the day you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be LIKE God, knowing good and evil.”

    Psalm 44:21...Would not God find this out? For He knows the secrets of the heart.

    Luke 16:15...And He (Jesus) said to them, “You are those who justify yourselves in the sight of men, but God knows your hearts; for that which is highly esteemed among men is detestable in the sight of God.

    1 John 3:20..."in whatever our heart condemns us; for God is greater than our heart and knows all things...."

    1 Chronicles 28:9...David to Soloman: The choice of "free will"
    ...for the Lord searches ALL hearts (spirits),
    and understands EVERY intent of the thoughts (souls).

    If you seek Him, He will let you find Him;
    but if you forsake Him, He will reject you forever.
     
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  4. Ron Gurley

    Ron Gurley What U See is What U Get!

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    Q2: And, what does he do with this knowledge?

    A2: Exercise His creative will and Judge!
     
  5. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    You could at least "try" and answer some of the questions directly you know...?

    What is "exercising his creative will and judging" mean...?

    God Bless!
     
  6. Saucy

    Saucy Fear is faith in the enemy. Supporter

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    Let me just say that you're not going to get the answers that are satisfactory to you. None of us can fathom all who God is. I can't even fathom the size of the universe in my brain, much less a Being who created it and is outside of it
     
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  7. Loren T.

    Loren T. Well-Known Member

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    You seem a bit obsessed with this question, my friend. I guess I've been there. It's a common enough question, usually stated as "How can God be completely sovereign and man still make real choices?" or something like that.

    The answer we usually get is just to embrace the mystery. That's basically where my pastor at that time went with it.

    But my mind doesn't work that way, so I started studying the various theories. From the Reforms determinism to the Open Theist. And really, there is no mystery in the reformed view when you really hold it up to the light. It's just fate with God thrown in. Kind of like the song lyric "nothing really matters, anyone can see, nothing really matters to me." That's where you end up with determinism. Not good for one's motivation.

    Open theism I found, had some Biblical issues, but my main issue with it was actually that dratted Einstein. Time is relative. Well, that won't work. Next!

    Molinism holds up pretty well. This is the best of all possible worlds, free will is real, although, yes, God chose this world, the possibilities exist for us as real possibilities, it's just that we don't activate them.

    But, basically, I ended up back with John Wesley and other arminians, because there is no reason to think God's sovereignty means he HAS to cause everything.
    I haven't found anyone who said it better than A. W. Tozer:
    “Here is my view: God sovereignly decreed that man should be free to exercise moral choice, and man from the beginning has fulfilled that decree by making his choice between good and evil. When he chooses to do evil, he does not thereby countervail the sovereign will [p.145] of God but fulfills it, inasmuch as the eternal decree decided not which choice the man should make but that he should be free to make it. If in His absolute freedom God has willed to give man limited freedom, who is there to stay His hand or say, ‘What doest thou?’ Man’s will is free because God is sovereign. A God less than sovereign could not bestow moral freedom upon His creatures. He would be afraid to do so.”
     
  8. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    The size of the universe is fathomable, I have just recently came to be able to do it, and have a picture of it, and Jesus and YHWH are comprehensible, within this framework I speak of though... Without that framework, good luck...

    God Bless!
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2018
  9. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    You said: "Man’s will is free because God is sovereign."

    That is a clear contradiction and doesn't make sense...?

    No offense, but that doesn't make sense...?

    How can God be sovereign (absolutely all-knowing) (100% fully omniscient) and we still have free will...?

    God Bless!
     
  10. Saucy

    Saucy Fear is faith in the enemy. Supporter

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    We're talking about a Being so powerful He spoke the universe into existence. He said, "Let it be done" and it was done. We can't even see across the whole universe, much less what's beyond it. No, I don't believe our finite minds can comprehend it and God said as much when He said, "However, as it is written: "What no eye has seen, what no ear has heard, and what no human mind has conceived" -- the things God has prepared for those who love him." 1st Corinthians 2:9.
     
  11. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    People who try to reason this outside of this framework (that I am doing my best to provide), get into all kind of theological contradictory puzzles, and quagmires, that are just as confused as the people they are confusing...

    God Bless!
     
  12. Loren T.

    Loren T. Well-Known Member

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    I don't see the problem. Unless you define sovereign as total control. Let's say I'm sovereign over my family. Does that mean I control their every move?
     
  13. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    God is unknowable...?

    I don't think God would do, nor did, nor would ever, do that to us...

    God Bless!
     
  14. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    Speaking of God as sovereign, The sovereign God must also be 100% completely "all-knowing", (or omniscient) right...?

    And I mean "knows everything"... and knew everything from the beginning or even before the beginning of making it...

    God Bless!
     
  15. Saucy

    Saucy Fear is faith in the enemy. Supporter

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    Well, we did used to walk with God, but sin separated us from Him.

    Great is the Lord, and greatly to be praised, and his greatness is unsearchable. (Ps. 145:3)

    Behold, these are but the outskirts of his ways, and how small a whisper do we hear of him! But the thunder of his power who can understand? (Job 26:14)

    For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, declares the Lord. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts. (Isa. 55:8–9)

    Oh, the depth of the riches and wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are his judgments and how inscrutable his ways! "For who has known the mind of the Lord, or who has been his counselor?" (Rom. 11:33–34; cf. Job 42:1–6; Ps. 139:6, 17–18; 147:5; Isa. 57:15; 1 Cor. 2:10–11; 1 Tim. 6:13–16)

    How God Is Both Incomprehensible and Knowable at the Same Time
     
  16. Loren T.

    Loren T. Well-Known Member

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    That just means we can't imagine what heaven and the new earth will be like, because our present minds can't hold it. It's true that we can't know everything about God, but it's also true that Christ revealed to us what God is like. And it's nothing like Plato's unmoved mover who just moves all the pieces around on the chess board. He's a personal, caring Being who want real relationships. Relationships require free choices.
     
  17. James2018

    James2018 Member

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    start at the beginning, yes I have a comment

    read the KJV Holy Bible a couple times

    and enroll in liberal arts college

    with a bible major
     
  18. Loren T.

    Loren T. Well-Known Member

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    Of course he knows everything. If I could know everything about what you would do tomorrow, would it mean you didn't have free will to do it? Even if I had the ability to control your every thought, would that mean I had to use that ablility?
     
  19. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    He doesn't "control" it, just knows it (all) (what we will choose) all the way back to the beginning, from before making it... Based on fully knowing, fully, "all" the (very numerous) preexisting conditions and all the (very numerous) "factors" and all the numerous "influences" (on us) that leads us to, and dictates/influences (controls) (all) our decisions and all our decision making processes...

    I'm talking about a God who knows all of that, all the way back to the beginning...

    God Bless!
     
  20. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    That link is a contradiction and is full of contradictions IMO...

    God makes himself knowable, great as he is, he makes himself knowable... Cause part of his greatness is making himself (relatively easily, or simply) knowable to mortal man...

    Without this framework that I am trying to provide though people get into all kind of very confusing theological contradictory puzzles, and quagmires, that are just as confused as the people they are confusing...

    God Bless!
     
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