Let's make ourselves at home: the chocolaterie

[Rhamiel]

it is not lent yet
still fat tuesday

i am a bi t drunk

 

[Paidiske]

This is the thing about being in Australia; we start fasting sooner than you, but we reach Easter sooner too!

Hope your head is okay in the morning!

 

[Silmarien]

*waves* I'm new to Christianity, and would never have considered taking it seriously if I hadn't come across Christian feminism and the gnostic treatment of Mary Magdalene and discovered that the early church was not at all what I'd assumed.

Trying to get through Scripture right now, and it involves a lot of slamming my head against the wall when things like Phoebe the Deaconess come up. I expect to lose it entirely and start channeling liberation theology by the time I'm done.

 

[Paidiske]

Hi, Silmarien, and welcome!

Hopefully some like-minded folks can be a support to you as you work your way through various things.

 

[Silmarien]

Thank you! I've been going to the Episcopal Church since Christmas, and I don't anticipate any problems, but I've never actually been involved in a church before and have mostly been lurking in the back and slinking away immediately afterwards, so I wouldn't really know yet! Brand new world to me in so many different ways.

 

[sunshineforJesus]

So what are you all up to this weekend? It looks like it will be
a quiet and boring weekend for me.

 

[Paidiske]

Work, I'm afraid. I just met with the family of a little boy I will baptise soon. That was lovely.

Now, really must finish tomorrow's sermon....

 

[Greg J.]

Thank you! I've been going to the Episcopal Church since Christmas, and I don't anticipate any problems, but I've never actually been involved in a church before and have mostly been lurking in the back and slinking away immediately afterwards, so I wouldn't really know yet! Brand new world to me in so many different ways.

Any church worth its salt will be genuinely happy to have you. It would be socially and spiritually helpful if you joined a woman's (or co-ed) Bible study group. You can ask them questions until you're blue in the face and they should be able help you with everything in some way (otherwise find another small group). Just remember we're all only human and (usually extremely) imperfect! The #1 goal for you, for your church, and other individuals in a church, is to help you as you try to connect yourself to the living, loving, helping, communicating Son of God himself, because in Christ you get everything you will ever need and desire in the long-term. Make studying Scripture a lifelong habit and you will have a hard time going wrong.

 

[Paidiske]

As an aside (and not having a go at you, Greg, you just mentioned something that's a bugbear of mine), does anyone else dislike gender-segregated Bible studies and small groups? I think it tends to feed into the whole set of different expectations for the sexes that is so unhelpful.

 

[Greg J.]

I haven't found that to be the case. The men I have known haven't really cared who was there. However, for groups where fellowship is a part, different things do get talked about when it's male-only (e.g., inappropriate content struggles), and the level of watching one's mouth is a little less. However, I've never attended a church where there was any attempt to separate males and females except for providing the option to attend a single-gendered small group or a co-ed one. I wouldn't have stayed at such a church.

 

[sunshineforJesus]

I am watching Kids baking championship and the desserts on there look so good.

 

[Silmarien]

I obviously can't speak to Bible studies, but from a pure gender studies angle, I think it would depend on the group. I've noticed that even in the most socially progressive group, the voices of those with more forceful, traditionally masculine conversational styles tend to get valued more highly, and that often (though not always) is divided on gender lines.

Definitely not comfortable with the idea of mandatory segregation, but I do agree with Greg that people of both genders will talk about different things when separated. And even in a reading group, people often view things from different angles--I know there's some scholarship out there on the Bible being traditionally filtered through a masculine lens leading to certain things getting ignored. I'm stunned by how many people thoughout history (Paul included if those lines in 1 Corinthians were not added later) conveniently overlooked that both men and women were explicitly created in God's image in Genesis 1. Or I would be stunned if I didn't know to blame Hellenistic philosophy.

That sort of stuff certainly could come up in a co-ed group, but is probably more likely to come up consistently if there's a separate women's reading group as well. (I would probably drive any group crazy, haha.)

 

[Dave-W]

does anyone else dislike gender-segregated Bible studies and small groups? I think it tends to feed into the whole set of different expectations for the sexes that is so unhelpful.

Not too fond of them myself.

But I can see the wisdom if it is a care group that discusses certain intimate things or problems.

 

[All4Christ]

This is the thing about being in Australia; we start fasting sooner than you, but we reach Easter sooner too!

Hope your head is okay in the morning!

I'd be curious how it would work with the Orthodox Church. We start our Vigil service at 10PM on Holy Saturday and start our Pascha service at midnight (AM) on Sunday (they run together). We may be celebrating at the same time depending on the time difference!

 

[All4Christ]

As an aside (and not having a go at you, Greg, you just mentioned something that's a bugbear of mine), does anyone else dislike gender-segregated Bible studies and small groups? I think it tends to feed into the whole set of different expectations for the sexes that is so unhelpful.

I don't mind it on occasion. I would mind it if it was the only option though. We have a women's group where we get together to hang out and fellowship once a month. There are about 10 of us - depending on who is available- who participate regularly, and we each host it at our house on occasion. Many of the mom's get some time without the kids to relax and we all get to know eachother more. For better or worse, we talk about some things that many would be uncomfortable discussing if it wasn't all women. It's not the only group though. The main Bible studies are mixed gender, and this women's group is led by one of the ladies in the church, not by the church officially.

 

[Paidiske]

Now here is something interesting.

It is very likely that later this year I will move parishes, into a situation where I will be priest in charge of a parish for the first time. The parish I am looking at, has in it a man who has significantly bullied me when I was a student; but here I would be coming in, in a new role and looking to build a new relationship.

I am intrigued by the idea that this is God's opportunity for us to reconcile and both grow from the conflict of the past, but I am also more than a bit intimidated...

 

[Paidiske]

Had to share this one, but it didn't feel like it needed it's own thread.

So, one of the readings set for church this morning is the bit of Ephesians about wives submitting to husbands. And I just got a message from the person down to read that he intends to skip that verse because we should have "junked" it long ago.

Now I have to explain to him that we don't get to redefine the canon on a whim, and we do actually need to read it (although I can find someone else if he really doesn't want to), and then we need to very carefully interpret it!

 

[bekkilyn]

Had to share this one, but it didn't feel like it needed it's own thread.

So, one of the readings set for church this morning is the bit of Ephesians about wives submitting to husbands. And I just got a message from the person down to read that he intends to skip that verse because we should have "junked" it long ago.

Now I have to explain to him that we don't get to redefine the canon on a whim, and we do actually need to read it (although I can find someone else if he really doesn't want to), and then we need to very carefully interpret it!

In my opinion, we need to talk about these verses even more than we do now. Ignoring them or pretending they don't exist isn't helpful because then no one knows then how to defend against the standard misogynistic interpretations and then those are the ones that are assumed to be correct.

I do enjoy that you have a reader protesting those verses though.

 

[Paidiske]

If it hadn't already been a very busy/stressful morning, it would have been quite funny. As it was, I felt the least he could have done would have been to find someone else willing to read, because he definitely wasn't going to!

 

[Fantine]

When I look at the Catholic response rial psalms I find that many verses are skipped. What am I missing, I wonder.

I think about the passage on the value of a good woman in Proverbs. Joan Chittister showed that the verses that were eliminated showed women's business acumen and expertise in areas that could be considered the province of men.

So yes, I see the Catholic liturgy picking and choosing verses, so I don't know why leaving out a verse matters.