Let's Keep an Eye on Texas and Mississippi

grasping the after wind

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If you think corruption, voter suppression frauds, and the like are "liberty", maybe so. But Texans are increasingly tired of the republicans in government failing to do the necessary things to protect the state, while passing laws about what music should be played before basketball games.

I figure it will take just over a decade to put an end to that kind of tomfoolery.

Hamsters say Texas has Liberty, you say it will end in 11 years. Hamsters asks what? You link to an article about Texas turning blue. Anyone even slightly adept at reading comprehension would come to the reasonable conclusion that you believe that when Texas turns blue in 11 years liberty will be at an end. Perhaps you meant something else but if so you should have said what you meant so you would have meant what you said instead perhaps you said what you did not mean and meant something other than you said.
 
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The Barbarian

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Hamsters say Texas has Liberty

I don't figure that telling basketball teams what music to play before games and making sure schoolkids use the restroom right amount to "liberty." A libertarian would say it's the opposite; absurd governmental overreach.

you say it will end in 11 years.

I figure it will take about that long for the demographics to settle, and for more conservatives to realize that the GOP is now the party of "we know what's good for you, and we're going to make you like it."
 
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The Barbarian

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Maybe we need a medical-grade mask mandate, like Germany. That's worked well...

Judging from the results in states with mask mandates, more effective masks would have been marginally better. Not sure that increment in improved protection would be worth the cost, though.
 
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Hammster

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Judging from the results in states with mask mandates, more effective masks would have been marginally better. Not sure that increment in improved protection would be worth the cost, though.
Not worth the cost? Tell that to the person whose life might be saved.
 
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cow451

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Nope. Just a larger sample than previous studies, and a tighter result. Just like the difference between looking at a brief period as opposed to getting data from the entire pandemic period.

COVID-19 is pretty new, and so we've learned more about it.
Your problem is that you are one of the brighter bulbs on this chandelier. Changing recommendations as evidence builds is simply logic. Not everyone can fit that into their gray matter easily.

The other thing about schools with younger children is that younger children, being smaller, aren't projecting droplets as far as an average adult. and they are easier to work with in groups because they generally like being in school and are willing to follow rules.

School nurses I know have been saying for some time that three feet was likely good enough given the data that has indicated spread by surface is not as much a risk as initially thought.
 
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The Barbarian

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The other thing about schools with younger children is that younger children, being smaller, aren't projecting droplets as far as an average adult. and they are easier to work with in groups because they generally like being in school and are willing to follow rules.

Good point.
 
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The Barbarian

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Not worth the cost? Tell that to the person whose life might be saved.

I assume you've built a meteorite shield over your house, then? In the event of a meteorite, it might save your life. Don't you think it's worth the cost?
 
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Hammster

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I assume you've built a meteorite shield over your house, then? In the event of a meteorite, it might save your life. Don't you think it's worth the cost?
I’m not the one advocating for masks.
 
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probinson

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The other thing about schools with younger children is that younger children, being smaller, aren't projecting droplets as far as an average adult. and they are easier to work with in groups because they generally like being in school and are willing to follow rules.

From this comment, I must assume that you've never actually met nor interacted with any human child.
 
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cow451

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From this comment, I must assume that you've never actually met nor interacted with any human child.
I would say the same about you with regard to young children in school.
 
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probinson

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I would say the same about you with regard to young children in school.

If you think young children in school aren't spewing droplets every which direction at high velocity when they're yelling, laughing, singing and generally being children, or that they are always and without exception "willing to follow rules", you are absolutely deluding yourself, and now I seriously wonder if you have ever even SEEN a human child.
 
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Hammster

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If you think young children in school aren't spewing droplets every which direction at high velocity when they're yelling, laughing, singing and generally being children, or that they are always and without exception "willing to follow rules", you are absolutely deluding yourself, and now I seriously wonder if you have ever even SEEN a human child.
My wife and I homeschool, and still have issues sometimes. ^_^
 
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cow451

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If you think young children in school aren't spewing droplets every which direction at high velocity when they're yelling, laughing, singing and generally being children, or that they are always and without exception "willing to follow rules", you are absolutely deluding yourself, and now I seriously wonder if you have ever even SEEN a human child.
Your straw man is noted.
Sorry but I’ve had two children and have worked with schools and teachers. It’s common for children to be better managed (mannered) in a reasonably well run elementary school than at home. They wear masks when everyone else does. Just like every other school setting, some children are more challenging.

If you want to keep schools shut down, that’s your opinion. I don’t think it’s necessary.
 
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Andrewn

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Ah, it goes back a long time. When I was an undergraduate in microbiology, sampling around standing people showed that there is a cloud of microorganisms circulating upward and then down, around the person by convection of body heat.

But even before that, surgeons work masks because experimental evidence showed that they projected a cloud of microorganisms from their mouths and noses.

The evidence showed that normal breathing projected the microbes out a few feet from the person's face.
I admire your trying to teach people very very basic stuff :). If they don't listen to the CDC and other epidemiology experts why should they listen here.

Luk 16:29 Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the prophets; they should listen to them.’
 
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probinson

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Your straw man is noted.

Not a straw man. Anyone who has ever spent more than 2 minutes with any normal, human child would know that they aren't always the most obedient. Also, they don't just follow rules. Sure, sometimes they do, but many times they do not.

Sorry but I’ve had two children and have worked with schools and teachers.

Oh, sorry. I didn't realize you had such impeccable credentials. :smirk:

I have two children also. I also have worked with children in many capacities. So I guess that puts us on equal footing.

It’s common for children to be better managed (mannered) in a reasonably well run elementary school than at home.
Sometimes yes, sometimes no. Your utopian picture of a school where children just sit quietly with their hands folded in their laps and masks on their faces all day listening intently to every word the teachers say is pure fantasy. There are ups and downs all throughout the day. Sometimes students are well-behaved and listen. Other times, not so much.

They wear masks when everyone else does.

Right. And they touch those masks and fidget with them all the livelong day just like everyone else too.

Just like every other school setting, some children are more challenging.
To say the least...

If you want to keep schools shut down, that’s your opinion. I don’t think it’s necessary.

Where on earth did you get that from? I thought schools should have been open at full capacity over a year ago. The educational damages we are inflicting on our children is immense and will have a lasting impact. There are countless private and parochial schools that have been open throughout the entire pandemic without any social distancing and without any masking. I don't know why we all have to pretend like that's not true.

The reality is, if you came from a wealthy family where your parents could afford to send you to a private school, you probably didn't miss that much school, if any. But if your family couldn't afford that, you've been stuck at home, isolated from social interactions and "learning" over a Zoom meeting for over a year. Those kids are being unfairly disadvantaged simply because their parents can't afford to send them to a school that stayed open.

The same holds true for lockdowns. I am fortunate that my job permits me to work from home. I'm part of the "laptop-class" that was able to keep my job and continue working from home without missing a beat. But others weren't so fortunate. Deemed "essential", we sent the working class people into the world to continue their jobs as usual. People working at Walmart, grocery stores, fast-food chains had to keep working throughout so-called "lockdowns" so that those of us in the laptop-class could be "safer at home". But not the working class. They couldn't stay home. So we sacrificed the less fortunate on the altar of lockdowns, and then scratch our heads wondering why poorer people were hit harder by the pandemic.
 
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probinson

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Back to the OP...

On March 3, the governor of New Jersey said he was "stunned" at Texas announcing an end to the mask mandate and couldn't conceive of lifting the indoor mask mandate. And now, 2 weeks after the mask mandate was lifted...

NJvsTX.jpg
 
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hedrick

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Here's a good summary of current research on masks: The Evolving Science of Face Masks and COVID-19 - FactCheck.org.

There's good evidence that it has an effect, but it looks fairly small. In the Spring of 2020, with R values like 5, masks would likely not have made much difference. With R's around 1, it might be significant. It's also clear that we need a better design of mask. (The article talks about that.) People are using all kinds of things, many of which would have virtually no benefit. There's no reason we shouldn't mass-produce good ones, if only for the next epidemic.

But my impression from watching NJ and other states, is that general behavior is much more important: how many people gather in what size groups how often? It seemed pretty clear that in the fall there was a major increase in parties. I live a boring life, but friends who see wider behavior tell me that the same kind of loosening behavior started in the last couple of months. From what I can see, that will swamp the effect of masks, though with an R like 1.1, the masks are still useful.

There's lots of reason to think the the spread of B.1.1.7 is having a big effect too. That seems to be spreading the same way the original Covid did, with transportation hubs seeing it first, though some other states are an issue as well. COVID-19 and Your Health shows the prevalence of variants in each state.

While I think it's silly for Texas to drop restrictions, B.1.1.7 is likely also an issue with their cases. We're in a race between mutations and vaccination. And to win the game, it's not enough for just the US to be vaccinated, since variants are coming from around the world.
 
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hislegacy

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