"Let us go down and confuse their language."

[robbiedaug]

HI all,
I've been listening to a Christian man on youtube who debates Muslims and Islam.
His channel is called Christian Prince Debates.
The guy knows his stuff in and out.

Today i heard a long debate between him and a Muslim guy.
The Muslims believe we Jesus followers worship THREE gods, God the Father, God the Son and the Holy Spirit. They think this is laughable as they LOVE to challenge us about the Trinity.

The Trinity, i can explain, but i cannot figure out how to explain myself if i should be asked about when at the Tower of Babel God said, "Let us go down and confuse their language..."
Who is the "us", if God is one?

Also, it says “Let Us make man in Our image, after Our likeness..."

In heaven, God should not have a human form.
In John, it says,
"1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was with God in the beginning.…"

So this means that Jesus was in Heaven with God, but also as a Spirit. Correct?
So again, i am a bit confused with how many.

The Trinity is easy to explain but when the Bible uses the word "Us", it confounds the idea of one God.

Can anyone help me understand what i could say to Muslims who should ask me to explain this "Us" business?

Thanks
Robbie

 

[royal priest]

" Us" indicates the three distinct persons of God: the Father, the Son, and Spirit.
The one God takes counsel of Himself amongst the three persons.
Genesis 1:26
Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness"

 

[robbiedaug]

I need MORE than that. Please, READ my post more carefully.

 

[robbiedaug]

Let me go a bit deeper for you, royal priest.

Muslims do not agree with a God being described as a "person" let alone three persons.
Is God the Father a "person"? Is a Holy Spirit a "person"?
The Holy Spirit is what moves people, it is what inspires people, call it, "our conscience".
The Holy Spirit is an entity, it's not like God or Jesus. We do not pray to the Holy Spirit. We pray to God through Jesus.
"No one gets to the Father except through the Son."

Jesus was a "person" on this earth. The miracle was that He was a man and is the Son of God.

Thanks,
Robbie

 

[Monk Brendan]

Let me go a bit deeper for you, royal priest.

Muslims do not agree with a God being described as a "person" let alone three persons.
Is God the Father a "person"? Is a Holy Spirit a "person"?
The Holy Spirit is what moves people, it is what inspires people, call it, "our conscience".
The Holy Spirit is an entity, it's not like God or Jesus. We do not pray to the Holy Spirit. We pray to God through Jesus.
"No one gets to the Father except through the Son."

Jesus was a "person" on this earth. The miracle was that He was a man and is the Son of God.

Thanks,
Robbie

Who's "WE", Robbie?

The Eastern Catholic tradition has lots of prayers through the Holy Spirit.

And even the Latin Church has the hymns Veni Creator Spiritus, Veni Sancti Spiritus, and the prayer, "Come Holy Spirit, fill the hearts of Your people, and enkindle in them the fire of Your love."

Yes, Robbie, in Catholic theological language, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are three separate PERSONS, but this does not mean "human being" in this context. Even in secular law, a corporation is a person that can be taxed, sued, enter into contracts, et al.

And in the Incarnation, our Savior had and still has both full human and full divine natures in one PERSON.

 

[TuxAme]

Christians might understand this "us" to mean the members of the Trinity. Ancient Jews seemed to believe that the "us" referred to both God and the angels.

 

[robbiedaug]

Hi Monk,
Shall we worship the words of mere men or the words from God?

Who's "WE", Robbie?

"We" the followers of the Christ.

The Eastern Catholic tradition has lots of prayers through the Holy Spirit.
And even the Latin Church has the hymns Veni Creator Spiritus, Veni Sancti Spiritus, and the prayer, "Come Holy Spirit, fill the hearts of Your people, and enkindle in them the fire of Your love."

As i've mentioned, the Holy Spirit is how we think and feel caused by the teachings of Jesus.

"Veni Creator Spiritus" ("Come Creator Spirit") is a hymn believed to have been written by Rabanus Maurus in the 9th century.

Veni Sancte Spiritus is one of only four medieval Sequences which were preserved in the Missale Romanum published in 1570 following the Council of Trent (1545–63).

Come, Holy Spirit is a Roman Catholic prayer for guidance." ~ Wiki

None of these come from the Bible. These are NOT the words of God. Jesus did not teach these words.
These are the words of men.
Shall we quote from Jimmy Swaggart, too, and Peter Popoff or even from Black Sabbath's Master of Reality album?
"Could it be you're afraid of what your friends might say if they knew you believe in God above?
They should realize before they criticize that God is the only way to love.
Is your mind so small that you have to fall in with the pack wherever they run?
Will you still sneer when death is near and say that you may as well worship the sun?"
A verse from, After Forever, from the album Master of Reality.
Yaa, let's all sing that in church.
Just men's words.

Yes, Robbie, in Catholic theological language, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are three separate PERSONS, but this does not mean "human being" in this context.

Ahh, but Jesus was a human at one time.
The Lord's Prayer was not in the Old Testament. It came AFTER Jesus, by Matthiew.
Are you saying that the three "persons" ("that does not mean human being") are three separate gods, then? Muslims will accuse us of that?
WE really need better explanations to defend or define our faith.
I can't accept that they are three SEPARATE persons.
1+1+1 does not = 3. Muslims accuse us of this and chop off our heads because of it.

1+1+1=1 (one God)

Even in secular law, a corporation is a person that can be taxed, sued, enter into contracts, et al.

Off topic.

And in the Incarnation, our Savior had and still has both full human and full divine natures in one PERSON.

Our Saviour on the Earth was ONE "person" who is the Son of God.
In Heaven, He is God, the Father and the Holy Spirit. One God.
Or are we really polytheists as the Muslims accuse us of being?

Why did God say, "Let us go down and confuse their language?"
Why did God say, "Let us make man in our image, our likeness?"...if God is ONE God (the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit)?

We accuse Muslims of following mere abrogations of Quranic verses made by their scholars and their prophet in regards to MANY verses in the Qu'ran which are supposedly the very words of their god, Allah, that they do not agree with.
How can mere men change the words of Allah's Qur'an and get a billion blind (terrified to question) people to follow it? Do not answer this rhetorical question. The answer is too obvious. Just see inside the parenthesis)

Thanks for the comment.
I did not know of the hymns you mentioned.
And i am sure you didn't know about that lyric from Black Sabbath.

Robbie

 

[robbiedaug]

HiTuxAme

...members of the Trinity...

Oh, so three gods? Is that it? The Trinity is ONE God.

Thanks.
Robbie

 

[robbiedaug]

Dear Mod(s),

I need the question mark in post #7 to be removed from this statement:
Muslims will accuse us of that?

It's not supposed to be a question. It's supposed to be an exclamation mark. (!)

I am not able to edit my post for some reason. WHY am i not able to edit my post? Is there some silly annoying time fame in which members have to edit a post or else it's too late?

Thanks
Robbie

 

[Hazelelponi]

HI all,
I've been listening to a Christian man on youtube who debates Muslims and Islam.
His channel is called Christian Prince Debates.
The guy knows his stuff in and out.

Today i heard a long debate between him and a Muslim guy.
The Muslims believe we Jesus followers worship THREE gods, God the Father, God the Son and the Holy Spirit. They think this is laughable as they LOVE to challenge us about the Trinity.

The Trinity, i can explain, but i cannot figure out how to explain myself if i should be asked about when at the Tower of Babel God said, "Let us go down and confuse their language..."
Who is the "us", if God is one?

Also, it says “Let Us make man in Our image, after Our likeness..."

In heaven, God should not have a human form.
In John, it says,
"1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was with God in the beginning.…"

So this means that Jesus was in Heaven with God, but also as a Spirit. Correct?
So again, i am a bit confused with how many.

The Trinity is easy to explain but when the Bible uses the word "Us", it confounds the idea of one God.

Can anyone help me understand what i could say to Muslims who should ask me to explain this "Us" business?

Thanks
Robbie

Muslims believe "us" as the royal we.

roy·al “we”
noun

1. the use of “we” instead of “I” by an individual person, as traditionally used by a sovereign.
   "Queen Victoria once remarked, with British understatement, “we are not amused.”"

There is no need as Christians to believe any different in this regard. The Trinity is One in three persons, unchanging. See the Athanasian Creed to explain the Trinity.

Muslims know the royal we, they just want to trip you up and confuse you.

 

[royal priest]

Let me go a bit deeper for you, royal priest.

Muslims do not agree with a God being described as a "person" let alone three persons.
Is God the Father a "person"? Is a Holy Spirit a "person"?
The Holy Spirit is what moves people, it is what inspires people, call it, "our conscience".
The Holy Spirit is an entity, it's not like God or Jesus. We do not pray to the Holy Spirit. We pray to God through Jesus.
"No one gets to the Father except through the Son."

Jesus was a "person" on this earth. The miracle was that He was a man and is the Son of God.

Thanks,
Robbie

Person in the sense of three personal, rational members of the Godhead. Equal in the essense of the Divine nature

 

[robbiedaug]

Muslims believe "us" as the royal we.

roy·al “we”
noun

1. the use of “we” instead of “I” by an individual person, as traditionally used by a sovereign.
   "Queen Victoria once remarked, with British understatement, “we are not amused.”"

There is no need as Christians to believe any different in this regard. The Trinity is One in three persons, unchanging. See the Athanasian Creed to explain the Trinity.

Muslims know the royal we, they just want to trip you up and confuse you.

Hi Hazelelponi,

I'm not confused.
The Muslims are, and perhaps ignorant Christians who believe without understanding or knowing HOW to define it clearly.
Do you know that Muslims murder Christians simply because of how we describe the Trinity?...the three. Three. Three gods in one?

They accuse us of polytheism because of it and chop, chop while screaming "Allahu Akbar!" over our dead bodies.

Thanks,
Robbie

 

[Hazelelponi]

Hi Hazelelponi,

I'm not confused.
The Muslims are, and perhaps ignorant Christians who believe without understanding or knowing HOW to define it clearly.
Do you know that Muslims murder Christians simply because of how we describe the Trinity?...the three. Three. Three gods in one?

They accuse us of polytheism because of it and chop, chop while screaming "Allahu Akbar!" over our dead bodies.

Thanks,
Robbie

Hello. I know your new to the forums but I am a former Muslim. So, I know what Muslims are like far more than you. I've been Christian for nearly 4 years now.

That said, there in Montreal you don't have a lot of extremists wanting to chop your head off for believing in the Trinity.

If you know Muslims don't fear them but share Christ... they need to know about Christ.

God does not give you a spirit of fear..that is from Satan.

 

[robbiedaug]

...three personal, rational members...

Members?
Plural?

YOU ARE ALL saying the same thing like parrots.
WHY does more than one REPEAT the other as if it will satisfy me?

Thanks,
Robbie.

 

[robbiedaug]

Hello. I know your new to the forums but I am a former Muslim. So, I know what Muslims are like far more than you. I've been Christian for nearly 4 years now.

That said, there in Montreal you don't have a lot of extremists wanting to chop your head off for believing in the Trinity.

If you know Muslims don't fear them but share Christ... they need to know about Christ.

God does not give you a spirit of fear..that is from Satan.

As an apostate, you should know first hand how they conquer other religions. It's written in the Qu'ran and hadiths to destroy the Christians.
Please, do not try to tell people that they should not worry. Why did you convert to Christ? Will you go Saudi Arabia and proclaim Jesus is God if "they need to know about Christ"?

As a misguided Muslim all your life (save the last four years) you should well know first hand how Islam works.

The way Trudeau is opening the border, it's only a matter of time.
Maybe we should all wait until then, right - when it's too late?

Were you raised in Arabic?

Thanks,
Robbie

 

[robbiedaug]

...in Montreal you don't have a lot of extremists wanting to chop your head off for believing in the Trinity.

What is Sandra Solomon worried about, Hazelelponi? Why do you tell people NOT to worry?
You and her are both apostates. Why are you different from her?
Are you doing Muruna?

 

[Hazelelponi]

As an apostate, you should know first hand how they conquer other religions. It's written in the Qu'ran and hadiths to destroy the Christians.
Please, do not try to tell people that they should not worry. Why did you convert to Christ? Will you go Saudi Arabia and proclaim Jesus is God if "they need to know about Christ"?

As a misguided Muslim all your life (save the last four years) you should well know first hand how Islam works.

The way Trudeau is opening the border, it's only a matter of time.
Maybe we should all wait until then, right - when it's too late?

Were you raised in Arabic?

Thanks,
Robbie

I think fear mongering belongs in the political section and not the one where we discuss our Christian faith.

I'm not a misguided "Muslim". I'm a Christian, a follower of Christ for the last 4 years.

I have told you the Islamic view of "us" in the Torah and scriptures. It is the royal we.

Leave Muslims alone, learn Christianity... you can't share anything you don't know. And you can't share anything of God if your living in fear.

 

[robbiedaug]

God does not give you a spirit of fear..that is from Satan.

You are STILL learning.
Fear of God - Wikipedia

 

[Hazelelponi]

You are STILL learning.
Fear of God - Wikipedia

Your fear is of Muslims not God..

It is written:

"For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind." 2 Timothy 1:7

 

[robbiedaug]

To the CHRISTIAN members. Not the "new students" of Christianity.
To prevent this thread from going HORRIBLY astray, please reread my original post
Thanks
Robbie

HI all,
I've been listening to a Christian man on youtube who debates Muslims and Islam.
His channel is called Christian Prince Debates.
The guy knows his stuff in and out.

Today i heard a long debate between him and a Muslim guy.
The Muslims believe we Jesus followers worship THREE gods, God the Father, God the Son and the Holy Spirit. They think this is laughable as they LOVE to challenge us about the Trinity.

The Trinity, i can explain, but i cannot figure out how to explain myself if i should be asked about when at the Tower of Babel God said, "Let us go down and confuse their language..."
Who is the "us", if God is one?

Also, it says “Let Us make man in Our image, after Our likeness..."

In heaven, God should not have a human form.
In John, it says,
"1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was with God in the beginning.…"

So this means that Jesus was in Heaven with God, but also as a Spirit. Correct?
So again, i am a bit confused with how many.

The Trinity is easy to explain but when the Bible uses the word "Us", it confounds the idea of one God.

Can anyone help me understand what i could say to Muslims who should ask me to explain this "Us" business?

Thanks
Robbie