'Let the Games Begin' ... with 150,000 dispersed Condoms at the Olympic Village

[Leap]

So... does this mean that you try to connect or associate sex with puberty, thus supporting post-pubescent sex, including for the early teens?

Early teens are not post-pubescent.

 

[yasic]

Early teens are not post-pubescent.

It is quite common for people to hit puberty at 12 and 13 years and sometimes earlier (wikipedia).

This means that there are plenty of post-pubescent children who are only 13 or 14 years of age which is early teens.

 

[Leap]

It is quite common for people to hit puberty at 12 and 13 years and sometimes earlier (wikipedia).

This means that there are plenty of post-pubescent children who are only 13 or 14 years of age which is early teens.

Starting puberty and post-pubescent are not the same thing.

"Conclusion

In a general sense, the conclusion of puberty is reproductive maturity. Criteria for defining the conclusion may differ for different purposes: attainment of the ability to reproduce, achievement of maximal adult height, maximal gonadal size, or adult sex hormone levels. Maximal adult height is achieved at an average age of 15 years for an average girl and 18 years for an average boy. Potential fertility (sometimes termed nubility) usually precedes completion of growth by 1–2 years in girls and 3–4 years in boys. Stage 5 typically represents maximal gonadal growth and adult hormone levels."
Puberty - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So, typically, girls complete puberty between 16 and 17, whilst boys complete it between 21 and 22.

 

[selfinflikted]

To be fair, I have had two condoms rip on me. I would think that I am well knowledgeable about their proper use (in part due to a strong comprehensive sex-ed course in my high school which very strongly encouraged condom use) and exercised it near perfectly.

Well, I didn't mean that something like that never happens, even with proper use and application. The chances are, however, extremely small.

 

[selfinflikted]

The two are connected. The basis of sex is procreation (you don't still think it's down to storks do you?). When you systematically deny the basis of sex as procreation, you separate sex from the changes undergone in puberty (as the purpose of puberty is to make us fertile). When you separate sex from puberty, the way is opened to sexualised pre-pubescents - something we already increasingly see in advertising, marketing and movies.

I thought that atheists were fond of reason; try using it instead of making comments like "You just jump right into the deep end of crazy".

Rubbish. Sexual attraction has little to do with procreation, cognitively. When you are attracted to someone and get sexually aroused, you aren't thinking "make babies" you're thinking about "let's get it on."

 

[yasic]

Starting puberty and post-pubescent are not the same thing.

"Conclusion

In a general sense, the conclusion of puberty is reproductive maturity. Criteria for defining the conclusion may differ for different purposes: attainment of the ability to reproduce, achievement of maximal adult height, maximal gonadal size, or adult sex hormone levels. Maximal adult height is achieved at an average age of 15 years for an average girl and 18 years for an average boy. Potential fertility (sometimes termed nubility) usually precedes completion of growth by 1–2 years in girls and 3–4 years in boys. Stage 5 typically represents maximal gonadal growth and adult hormone levels."
Puberty - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So, typically, girls complete puberty between 16 and 17, whilst boys complete it between 21 and 22.

Did you read what you just posted?

Maximal adult hight for girls happens at 15 years of age on average. Nubility happens 1-2 years prior so 13-14 years for girls on average.

Even if we assume conservative deviance from average of only 1 year (though in reality it would be more) this still means that a significant portion of girls will:

Become sexually developed at 12-13 years of age and reach their maximum height at 14 years of age.

So yes, puberty is concluded at 12-14 years of age for many girls (depending on your definition of when puberty is concluded), and this is using conservative figures.

 

[IzzyPop]

Yes, it does. No one has denied that.



The essence of sex is procreation. Without procreation, sex would not exist. And human have no "season"; we are able to reproduce throughout the year.



Are you suggesting that the "Rhythm method" actually works? We all know that it is pretty damn useless as a form of contraception. As for people expending time and resources....no small part of that today is plummeting sperm counts. The human race has NEVER had a problem reproducing; large familes are the historical norm across the world.



Your fondness for the hammer is probably part of your problem here. Put it away and use reason instead.

So, can you please show the fault in my reasoning that:

* The basis of sex is procreation.
* When you systematically deny the basis of sex as procreation, you separate sex from the changes undergone in puberty (as the purpose of puberty is to make us fertile).
* When you separate sex from puberty, the way is opened to sexualised pre-pubescents.

We've already seen how the basis of sex is procreation. Can you show how the next points do not follow on?

You are missing my basic point here. I will say that while the basis of sex is procreation, it is not the primary purpose in humans. We use it for other purposes and those purposes have surpassed procreation in importance. I keep pointing out and you keep missing the simple fact that humans have no markers for when the female is ovulating. Were sex simply or even primarily about procreation there would be some simple way of knowing when to impregnate a female. Instead, human females expend resources every month to build up a uterine lining and then expel it if it is not used.

The rest of your assertions rest upon this faulty premise and until we hash this out we can go no further.

 

[Leap]

Rubbish. Sexual attraction has little to do with procreation, cognitively. When you are attracted to someone and get sexually aroused, you aren't thinking "make babies" you're thinking about "let's get it on."

There is a cognitive element to attraction (which is how different cultures find different things attractive). Mess with people's thinking, by systematically removing the procreative element from sex, and you deny puberty and by doing so open up children to sexualisation.

A society that teaches that homosexuality and contraception are normal is teaching a systematic break in the connection between sex and procreation, and by doing so teaching a systematic break in the link between sex and post-pubescence. Break the link between sex and puberty and, as I said, sexualisation of children is opened up.

Think that sexualisation of children isnt an increasing problem in society?
Review of commercialisation and sexualisation of children - In the news
Parents worry about sexualised children, one year after David Cameron promised crackdown on advertising - Telegraph
Let Girls be Girls campaign | Mumsnet
BBC News - Child sexualisation complaints website to be set up

Its happening, and by systematically breaking the connection between sex and procreation, and thus the connection between sex and post-pubescence, it is only being encouraged more.

 

[TheyCallMeDave]

And transporting 150k condoms in your backseat will cause an orgy to occur in your car.

It certainly will with the company of a few reprobate minded people in the backseat who think their only purpose to life is illicit sexual copulating . This represents the emptiness of atheism/hedonism --- apathy toward Others, apathy toward morals and dignity , and turning Self into ones own god (idolizing self) . This is what occurs when people dont mind pretending that the personal Creator of the Universe who fashioned them in his image...isnt real or isnt wanted. Atheism begats anarchy as clearly demonstrated by the 150 k. Condom campaign 'to reward world Athletes for their hard work' .

 

[Leap]

Did you read what you just posted?

Maximal adult hight for girls happens at 15 years of age on average. Nubility happens 1-2 years prior so 13-14 years for girls on average.

Even if we assume conservative deviance from average of only 1 year (though in reality it would be more) this still means that a significant portion of girls will:

Become sexually developed at 12-13 years of age and reach their maximum height at 14 years of age.

So yes, puberty is concluded at 12-14 years of age for many girls (depending on your definition of when puberty is concluded), and this is using conservative figures.

Did you not read it - fertility matures 1 to 2 years after maximal height is reach. So in girls 15 + 1 or 2 years. So 16 and 17. Even for your "deviance of 1 year" would mean 15 year olds...which are treated on a case by case basis on law.

Pull your head out of the liberal sand bucket and think about this rather than tribally react.

 

[Leap]

You are missing my basic point here. I will say that while the basis of sex is procreation, it is not the primary purpose in humans. We use it for other purposes and those purposes have surpassed procreation in importance. I keep pointing out and you keep missing the simple fact that humans have no markers for when the female is ovulating. Were sex simply or even primarily about procreation there would be some simple way of knowing when to impregnate a female. Instead, human females expend resources every month to build up a uterine lining and then expel it if it is not used.

The rest of your assertions rest upon this faulty premise and until we hash this out we can go no further.

Humans use sex for things other than procreation, but its core and essence (without which it would not exist) IS procreation. To deny this is just a case of fingers in ears and lalalalalala.

And humans do not need "markers when the female is ovulating" as human fertility is constant - we dont go into season like animals do.

 

[yasic]

Did you not read it - fertility matures 1 to 2 years after maximal height is reach. So in girls 15 + 1 or 2 years. So 16 and 17. Even for your "deviance of 1 year" would mean 15 year olds...which are treated on a case by case basis on law.

Pull your head out of the liberal sand bucket and think about this rather than tribally react.

"Potential fertility (sometimes termed nubility) usually precedes completion of growth by 1–2 years in girls and 3–4 years in boys." (Source - wiki that you quoted. emphasis mine)

"pre·cede   [pri-seed] Show IPA verb, pre·ced·ed, pre·ced·ing, noun
verb (used with object)
1.
to go before, as in place, order, rank, importance, or time.
2.
to introduce by something preliminary; preface: to precede one's statement with a qualification."
(Source - Dictionary.com)

 

[Gadarene]

And humans do not need "markers when the female is ovulating" as human fertility is constant - we dont go into season like animals do.

We don't have seasons of heat, but fertility isn't constant either.

 

[Leap]

"Potential fertility (sometimes termed nubility) usually precedes completion of growth by 1–2 years in girls and 3–4 years in boys." (Source - wiki that you quoted. emphasis mine)

"pre·cede   [pri-seed] Show IPA verb, pre·ced·ed, pre·ced·ing, noun
verb (used with object)
1.
to go before, as in place, order, rank, importance, or time.
2.
to introduce by something preliminary; preface: to precede one's statement with a qualification."
(Source - Dictionary.com)

Ah, oops, sorry, my bad.

Fair point on that. However puberty does NOT complete and stabilise for most until 16 or later (which is why we have that as the age of consent).

 

[Gadarene]

It certainly will with the company of a few reprobate minded people in the backseat who think their only purpose to life is illicit sexual copulating . This represents the emptiness of atheism/hedonism --- apathy toward Others, apathy toward morals and dignity , and turning Self into ones own god (idolizing self) .

Funny, none of those things describe me as an atheist.

Oh well, you wouldn't be first Christian who didn't have a clue what it was.

This is what occurs when people dont mind pretending that the personal Creator of the Universe who fashioned them in his image...isnt real or isnt wanted.

That is a bit closer to the mark in terms of what I think, but it doesn't mean any of the things you claimed in the prior segment of your post (apathy towards morals etc).

Atheism begats anarchy as clearly demonstrated by the 150 k.

You evidently don't know what anarchy is either. There isn't an orgy of chaos, lawlessness etc breaking out in the Olympic Village and the competition has been underway for some days now.

Time to put down the emotive and melodramatic language, and have a stay in reality, methinks.

 

[yasic]

Ah, oops, sorry, my bad.

Fair point on that. However puberty does NOT complete and stabilise for most until 16 or later (which is why we have that as the age of consent).

On what basis do you make that claim? Can you show me any medical journal that makes such a claim?

If a girl has full sexual maturity and full ability to reproduce at 13, and has reached her maximum height and body shape at 14 years of age, on what possible basis can you claim that she is still in puberty and not post-pubescent?


EDIT: I may have misread your post, making a new post to correct my mistake.

 

[yasic]

Ah, oops, sorry, my bad.

Fair point on that. However puberty does NOT complete and stabilise for most until 16 or later (which is why we have that as the age of consent).

According to that article, the average age that puberty is concluded for girls is 15, which means that less than half of all girls finish puberty at 16 or later.

The fact that the average age is 15 also means that either the vast majority of girls finish puberty at 15 or that a significant portion of girls finish puberty at 13 or 14 years of age.


This means that if I were you, I would take another look at the previous 4-5 pages of this thread where you repetitively stated that sexuality should be associated with puberty

 

[Leap]

On what basis do you make that claim? Can you show me any medical journal that makes such a claim?

If a girl has full sexual maturity and full ability to reproduce at 13, and has reached her maximum height and body shape at 14 years of age, on what possible basis can you claim that she is still in puberty and not post-pubescent?


EDIT: I may have misread your post, making a new post to correct my mistake.

According to that article, the average age that puberty is concluded for girls is 15, which means that less than half of all girls finish puberty at 16 or later.

The fact that the average age is 15 also means that either the vast majority of girls finish puberty at 15 or that a significant portion of girls finish puberty at 13 or 14 years of age.


This means that if I were you, I would take another look at the previous 4-5 pages of this thread where you repetitively stated that sexuality should be associated with puberty

Sorry, how does any of this address my point that breaking the link between sex and procreation (and thus sex and post-pubescence) promotes the sexualisation of children?

 

[IzzyPop]

Humans use sex for things other than procreation, but its core and essence (without which it would not exist) IS procreation. To deny this is just a case of fingers in ears and lalalalalala.

And humans do not need "markers when the female is ovulating" as human fertility is constant - we dont go into season like animals do.

First off, human fertility is not constant. There is a window were conception can happen. That window is variable amongst women and even in an individual woman. I will now try a hammer approach to see if you pick up on this:

The woman's body utilizes a sizable amount of energy and resources every single month to create a hospitable place for a fertilized egg to land. If procreation were the primary purpose of sex why is that purpose not signaled in a readily apparent manner?

 

[Leap]

First off, human fertility is not constant. There is a window were conception can happen. That window is variable amongst women and even in an individual woman.

Yes, that must be why the rhythm method is soooo reliable.

The woman's body utilizes a sizable amount of energy and resources every single month to create a hospitable place for a fertilized egg to land. If procreation were the primary purpose of sex why is that purpose not signaled in a readily apparent manner?

It doesnt need to be. For countless centuries humans have had no problem breeding large families using an act of copulation that is found across nature in animals as well. Its base line function is procreation, and your denial of that is precisely the kind of bizarreness that I have come to expect from liberals.