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Let no man judge and put yoke over your neck

Discussion in 'Sabbath and The Law' started by R. Hartono, Apr 4, 2018.

  1. R. Hartono

    R. Hartono Well-Known Member

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    Are the Sabbath laws binding on Christians today?

    Col 2 :16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
    17 Which are A SHADOW OF THINGS TO COME as the body of CHRIST.

    We believe the Old Testament regulations governing Sabbath observances are ceremonial, not moral, aspects of the law. As such, they are no longer in force, but have passed away along with the sacrificial system, the Levitical priesthood, and all other aspects of Moses' law that prefigured Christ. Here are the reasons we hold this view.

    In Colossians 2:16-17, Paul explicitly refers to the Sabbath as a shadow of Christ, which is no longer binding since the substance (Christ) has come. It is quite clear in those verses that the weekly Sabbath is in view. The phrase "a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day" refers to the annual, monthly, and weekly holy days of the Jewish calendar (cf. 1 Chronicles 23:31; 2 Chronicles 2:4; 31:3; Ezekiel 45:17; Hosea 2:11). If Paul were referring to special ceremonial dates of rest in that passage, why would he have used the word "Sabbath?" He had already mentioned the ceremonial dates when he spoke of festivals and new moons.
    1. The Sabbath was the sign to Israel of the Mosaic Covenant (Exodus 31:16-17; Ezekiel 20:12; Nehemiah 9:14). Since we are now under the New Covenant (Hebrews 8), we are no longer required to observe the sign of the Mosaic Covenant.
    2. The New Testament never commands Christians to observe the Sabbath.
    3. In our only glimpse of an early church worship service in the New Testament, the church met on the first day of the week (Acts 20:7).
    4. Nowhere in the Old Testament are the Gentile nations commanded to observe the Sabbath or condemned for failing to do so. That is certainly strange if Sabbath observance were meant to be an eternal moral principle.
    5. There is no evidence in the Bible of anyone keeping the Sabbath before the time of Moses, nor are there any commands in the Bible to keep the Sabbath before the giving of the law at Mt. Sinai.
    6. When the Apostles met at the Jerusalem council (Acts 15), they did not impose Sabbath keeping on the Gentile believers.
    7. The apostle Paul warned the Gentiles about many different sins in his epistles, but breaking the Sabbath was never one of them.
    8. In Galatians 4:10-11, Paul rebukes the Galatians for thinking God expected them to observe special days (including the Sabbath).
    9. In Romans 14:5, Paul forbids those who observe the Sabbath (these were no doubt Jewish believers) to condemn those who do not (Gentile believers).
    10. The early church fathers, from Ignatius to Augustine, taught that the Old Testament Sabbath had been abolished and that the first day of the week (Sunday) was the day when Christians should meet for worship (contrary to the claim of many seventh-day sabbatarians who claim that Sunday worship was not instituted until the fourth century).
    11. Sunday has not replaced Saturday as the Sabbath. Rather the Lord's Day is a time when believers gather to commemorate His resurrection, which occurred on the first day of the week. Every day to the believer is one of Sabbath rest, since we have ceased from our spiritual labor and are resting in the salvation of the Lord (Hebrews 4:9-11).

    So while we still follow the pattern of designating one day of the week a day for the Lord's people to gather in worship, we do not refer to this as "the Sabbath."

    John Calvin took a similar position. He wrote,

    There were three reasons for giving this [fourth] commandment: First, with the seventh day of rest the Lord wished to give to the people of Israel an image of spiritual rest, whereby believers must cease from their own works in order to let the Lord work in them. Secondly, he wished that there be an established day in which believers might assemble in order to hear his Law and worship him. Thirdly, he willed that one day of rest be granted to servants and to those who live under the power of others so that they might have a relaxation from their labor. The latter, however, is rather an inferred than a principal reason.

    As to the first reason, there is no doubt that it ceased in Christ; because he is the truth by the presence of which all images vanish. He is the reality at whose advent all shadows are abandoned. Hence St. Paul (Col. 2:17) that the sabbath has been a shadow of a reality yet to be. And he declares elsewhere its truth when in the letter to the Romans, ch. 6:8, he teaches us that we are buried with Christ in order that by his death we may die to the corruption of our flesh. And this is not done in one day, but during all the course of our life, until altogether dead in our own selves, we may be filled with the life of God. Hence, superstitious observance of days must remain far from Christians.

    The two last reasons, however, must not be numbered among the shadows of old. Rather, they are equally valid for all ages. Hence, though the sabbath is abrogated, it so happens among us that we still convene on certain days in order to hear the word of God, to break the [mystic] bread of the Supper, and to offer public prayers; and, moreover, in order that some relaxation from their toil be given to servants and workingmen. As our human weakness does not allow such assemblies to meet every day, the day observed by the Jews has been taken away (as a good device for eliminating superstition) and another day has been destined to this use. This was necessary for securing and maintaining order and peace in the Church.

    As the truth therefore was given to the Jews under a figure, so to us on the contrary truth is shown without shadows in order, first of all, that we meditate all our life on a perpetual sabbath from our works so that the Lord may operate in us by his spirit; secondly, in order that we observe the legitimate order of the Church for listening to the word of God, for admin-istering the sacraments, and for public prayers; thirdly, in order that we do not oppress inhumanly with work those who are subject to us. [From Instruction in Faith, Calvin's own 1537 digest of the Institutes, sec. 8, "The Law of the Lord"].
     
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  2. SpiritSong

    SpiritSong The LORD is my Shepherd Supporter

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    I have heard it said, as an opinion, that if someone has to work on Sundays, they would normally have a day of rest on some other day of the week. We would hope that they read their Bible and pray, etc. on that day. If they belong to a church, maybe they can watch a video of the Sunday service or read the pastor's sermon on a Blog.

    I say this because we have a nurse in our church and he has to work sometimes on Sundays. On the Sundays that he does not work, he does attend church though. He is a very nice man and a wonderful nurse!
     
  3. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Why not do your own Bible study rather then point others to the teachings of men or the word of website instead of the WORD of God?

    What OLD Testament scriptures is PAUL referring to here? What is the within CHAPTER and SCRIPTURE CONTEXT that is being discussed here? Is it God's LAW (10 Commandments) which the 4th Command which is one of the 10 commandments or the CEREMONIAL laws in ORDINANCES from the MOSAIC BOOK of the OLD COVENANT?

    KEY SCRIPTURE COL 2:11-17

    COLOSIANS 2
    [11], In whom also you are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:[12], Buried with him in baptism, in which also you are risen with him through the faith of the working of God, who has raised him from the dead. [13], And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, has he made alive together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; [14],Blotting out the HANDWRITING of ORDINANCES that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; [15], And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a show of them openly, triumphing over them in it. [16], Let no man therefore judge you in food, or in drink, or in respect of a holy day, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: [17], Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

    ................

    LINKING THE OLD WITH THE NEW

    V11. Shadows of the CEREMONIAL ORDINANCE of CIRCUMCISION pointing to CIRCUMCISION of the HEART MADE WITHOUT HANDS by the CIRCUMCISION of Christ.

    FORTOLD IN THE OLD AND NEW TESTAMENT SCRIPTURES….

    DEUTERONOMY 30 [6] And the LORD your God will CIRCUMCISE YOUR HEART AND THE HEART OF YOUR DECENDENCE, TO LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART AND WITHYOU’RE YOUR SOUL, THAT YOU MAY LIVE.

    JEREMIAH 4 [4] CIRCUMCISE YOURSELF TO THE LORD, AND TAKE AWAY THE FORESKINS OF YOUR HEART, you men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem: lest my fury come forth like fire, and burn that none can quench it, because of the evil of your doings.

    DEUTERONOMY 10 [16] CIRCUMCISE therefore THE FORESKIN OF YOUR HEART, and be no more stiff-necked.

    NEW COVENANT FULFILLMENT of the SHADOWS of the CEREMONIAL ORDINANCE of CIRCUMCISION pointing the CIRCUMCISION of the HEART through faith in Christ…

    ROMANS 2 [25] For circumcision verily profits, if you keep the law: but if you are a breaker of the law, your circumcision is made uncircumcision. [26], Therefore if the uncircumcision keeps the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? [27], And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfils the law, judge you, who by the letter and circumcision do transgress the law? [28], FOR HE IS NOT A JEW, WHO IS ONE; NEITHER IS THAT CIRCUMCISION, WHICH IS OF THE OUTWARD FLESH: [29], BUT HE IS A JEW WHICH IS ONE INWARDLY; AND CIRCUMCISION IS THAT OF THE HEART, IN THE SPIRIT AND NOT IN THE LETTER; WHOSE PRAISE IS NOT OF MEN BUT OF GOD.

    1 CORITHIANS 7 [19] CIRCUMCISION IS NOTHING, AND UNCIRCUMCISION IS NOTHING, BUT THE KEEPING OF THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD.

    This is the operation of GOD in the NEW COVENANT…

    HEBREWS 8
    [10], For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord; I WILL PUT MY LAWS INTO THEIR MINDS, AND WRITE THEM IN THEIR HEARTS: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

    CONCLUSION; The CEREMONIAL ORDINANCE of CIRCUMCISION is a Shadow law from the MOSAIC BOOK of the OLD COVENANT pointing to a NEW HEART to LOVE and OBEY GOD in the NEW COVENANT.

    The SHADOW laws of the OLD COVENANT that are REPLACED CEREMONIAL ORDINANCES of CIRCUMCISION from the Mosaic BOOK of the Covenant are the within CHAPTER CONTEXT BEFORE COL 2:14

    ……………………………

    WHAT MADE UP THE OLD COVENANT?

    The OLD COVENANT was made up of two sets of LAWS. These included God's LAW (10 Commandments) spoken and written by GOD himself to his people on two tables of stone and the MOSAIC BOOK OF THE COVENANT written and spoken to God's people by MOSES containing the CIVIL, CEREMONIAL and ECCLESIASTICAL laws for forgiveness of sin offerings for the SNACTUARY PRIESTHOOD.

    EXODUS 34
    [28] And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the COVENANT, the ten commandments.

    EXODUS 24 [7] And he took the BOOK OF THE COVENANT, and read in the hearing of the people: and they said, All that the LORD has said will we do, and be obedient.

    CONCLUSION; Two sets of LAWS made up the OLD COVENANT. These included 1. GOD'S LAW (10 Commandments) and 2. The MOSAIC BOOK of laws and ORDINACNES for remission of SIN.

    ……………………………

    THE OLD IS REPLACED BY THE NEW

    COLOSIANS 2 [14],
    Blotting out the HANDWRITING of ORDINANCES that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

    GREEK WORD MEANINGS AND WORD USE
    14
    , “BLOTTING OUT” < G1813 ἐξαλείφωexaleipho (ex-a-lei'-fō) v. means to rub out, i.e. obliterate, erase>the “HANDWRITING” < G5498 χειρόγραφονcheirographon (chei-ro'-gra-fon) n. means something hand-written (“chirograph”), a manuscript specially, a legal document > of “ORDINANCES< G1378 δόγμα dogma (d̮og'-ma) n. means ORDINANCE; CIVIL, CEREMONIAL or ECCLIESIASTICAL laws that was against us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

    The GREEK WORD meanings here in this scripture show that it follows the same CONTEXT of v11-13 is in relation to the CEREMONIAL ORDINANCES found in the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT.

    V14 Blotting out or erasing the legal MANUSCRIPT or document of ORDINANCES referred to here are those of the CEREMONIAL ORDINANCES from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT. The GREEK word for ORDIANACE is DOGMA mean ing THE CIVIL, CEREMONIAL and ECCLESIASTICAL ORDINANCES once again only found in the MOSAIC BOOK of the Covenant

    What is being REPLACED in the NEW COVANANT is the CIVIL, CEREMONIAL and ECCLESIASTICAL laws and ORDINANCES

    This scripture cannot be referring to the abolishing of the 10 commandments of God’s LAW as God’s 10 Commandments are not ORDINANCES and they are not written in a MANUSCRIPT they are written on two tables of stone (Exodus 31:18). The chapter CONTEXT is in reference to the CEREMONIAL ORDINANCES of CIRCUMCISION once again from the MOSAIC BOOK of the OLD COVENANT. These were all SHADOWS and ORDINANCES OF the Mosaic BOOK of the Covenant v17 pointing to Christ and the plan of SALVATION.

    ORDINANCES that were against us is referring to the also referring to the PENALTY of SIN (breaking God’s Commandments and the ORDINANCES of curses written once again in the MOSAIC BOOK of the Covenant.

    DEUT 31 [26] TAKE THIS BOOK OF THE LAW, and put it in the side of the ark of the COVENANT of the LORD your God, that it may be there FOR A WITNESS AGAINST THEE.

    DEUT 29 [21]
    And the LORD shall separate him unto evil out of all the tribes of Israel, ACCORDING TO ALL THE CURSES OF THE COVENANT that are WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF THE LAW.

    (See the list of ORDINACES for curses of breaking Gods’ Law in DEUTERONOMY 28:15-68)

    CONCLUSION; COL 2:14 is talking about the CIVIL CEREMONIAL AND ECCLESIASTICAL ORDINANCES written in the MOSIAC BOOK of the Covenant which are SHADOW laws pointing to Jesus and God’s plan of SALVATION. This is supported also by the within CHAPTER CONTEXT and SUBJECT matter of v16 which are all CEREMONIAL ORDINANCES written in the MOCAIC BOOK of the COVENANT and not referring to ABOLISHING God’s 10 Commandments.

    ……………………………

    THE OLD COVENANT POINTING TO THE NEW

    HEBREWS 9 [1] Then verily THE FIRST COVENANT HAD ALSO ORDINANCES of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary. [9] Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;[10] WHICH STOOD ONLY IN MEATS AND DRINKS, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.[12] NEITHER BY THE BLOOD OF GOATS AND CALVES, BUT BY HIS OWN BLOOD he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

    old covenant...blood of goats.....The meat and drink offerings

    HEBREWS 10 [4] FOR IT IS NOT POSSIBLE THAT THE BLOOD OF BULLS AND OF GOATS SHOULD TAKE AWAY SINS.[5] Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:[6] In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.[7] Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.[8] Above when he said, sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;[9] Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. HE TAKETH AWAY THE FIRST, THAT HE MAY ESTABLISH THE SECOND.

    EPHESIANS 2 [15] HAVING ABOLISHED in his flesh the enmity, even the LAW OF COMMANDMENTS CONTAINED IN ORDINANCES; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;[16] And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

    HEBREWS 13 [9] Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be ESTABLISHED WITH GRACE; NOT WITH MEATS, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein. [10] We have an altar, whereof they have no right to eat which serve the tabernacle. [11] For THE BODIES OF THOSE BEASTS, WHOSE BLOOD is brought into the sanctuary by the high priest for sin, are burned without the camp. [12] WHEREFORE JESUS ALSO, THAT HE MIGHT SANCTIFY THE PEOPLE WITH HIS OWN BLOOD, suffered without the gate.

    The first covenant had ORDINANCES which stood ONLY in meat and drink offerings which were a figure. A shadow

    EZEKIEL 46 [14] And thou shalt prepare a meat offering for it every morning, the sixth part of an ephah, and the third part of an hin of oil, to temper with the fine flour; a MEAT OFFERING continually by a perpetual ORDINANCE unto the LORD.

    HEBREWS 10 [1] For THE LAW HAVING A SHADOW of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with THOSE SACRIFICES WHICH THEY OFFERED YEAR BY YEAR continually make the comers thereunto perfect.[2] For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins. [3] But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.[4] For IT IS NOT POSSIBLE THAT THE BLOOD OF BULLS AND OF GOATS SHOULD TAKE AWAY SINS.

    Hebrews 10 says it all. The shadow of the law was the offerings (the meat and drink offerings).

    NUMBERS 19 [2] This is the ORDINANCE OF THE LAW which the Lord hath commanded, saying, Speak unto the children of Israel, that they bring thee a red heifer without spot, wherein is no blemish, and upon which never came yoke:

    JOHN 6 [55] For my flesh is MEAT indeed, and my blood is DRINK indeed.

    NUMBERS 18 [8] And the LORD spake unto Aaron, Behold, I also have given thee the charge of mine heave offerings of all the hallowed things of the children of Israel; unto thee have I given them by reason of the anointing, and to thy sons, BY AN ORDINANCE for ever.[9] This shall be thine of the most holy things, reserved from the fire: EVERY OBLATION of theirs, EVERY MEAT OFFERING of theirs, and EVERY SIN OFFERING of theirs, and every trespass offering of theirs, which they shall render unto me, shall be most holy for thee and for thy sons.The new covenant is all about the blood of Christ and God's LAW written on the heart in those who BELIEVE the WORD of GOD. Not changing the law....but fulfilling the law

    ROMANS 3 [31], Do we then make void the law through faith? GOD FORBID: YEA, WE ESTABLISH THE LAW.

    ZECHARIAH 9 [9]
    Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, THY KING COMETH UNTO THEE: HE IS JUST, AND HAVING SALVATION; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass.[10] And I will cut off the chariot from Ephraim, and the horse from Jerusalem, and the battle bow shall be cut off: and he shall speak peace unto the heathen: and his dominion shall be from sea even to sea, and from river even to the ends of the earth.[11] As for thee also, BY THE BLOOD OF THY COVENANT I have sent forth thy prisoners out of the pit wherein is no water
    Verse 9 definitely prophecies of the coming Jesus. Verse 11, Jesus is called the blood of thy covenant

    HEBREWS 12
    [23] To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,[24] And to Jesus THE MEDIATOR OF THE NEW COVENANT, AND TO THE BLOOD of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

    New covenant... blood

    LUKE 22
    [19] And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me. [20] Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, THIS CUP IS THE NEW TESTAMENT IN MY BLOOD, which is shed for you.

    Where is all this leading? The NEW COVENANT of course...

    JEREMIAH [31], Behold, the days come, says the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:[32], NOT ACCORDING TO THE COVENANT THAT I MADE WITH THEIR FATHERS in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt ; MY COVENANT WHICH THEY BROKE, although I was a husband unto them, says the LORD:[33], But THIS SHALL BE MY COVENANT THAT I SHALL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISREAL; After those days, says the LORD, I WILL PUT MY LAWS IN THEIR INWARD PARTS, AND I WILL WRITE IT IN THEIR HEARTS AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE; [34], And they shall teach no more every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, says the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

    2 CORINTHIANS 3
    [2], You are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men: [3], Since you are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, WRITTEN NOT WITH INK, BUT WITH THE SPIRIT OF THE LIVING GOD; NOT IN TABLES OF STONE, BUT IN THE FLESHLY TABLES OF THE HEART. (see all of 2 COR 3)

    ……………………………

    OVERALL CONCLUSION;
    Jesus did not come to change or destroy GOD'S LAW (10 Commandments). It is through GOD's LAW that we have a KNOLWEDGE of what SIN is.

    The sabbath is still to be kept. He came to fulfil what was written of Him in the books of the law and to END the Mosaic law for remission of SIN and the penalty of SIN in those who BELIEVE.

    NO MORE ORDINANCES WRITTEN IN THE MOSAIC BOOK of the OLD COVENANT Ceremonial/Levitical/Sacrificial laws and animal sacrifices and FORGIVENESS OF SIN and DELIVERANCE from the PENALTY of SIN through FAITH in CHRIST and the BLOOD of the NEW COVENANT.

    NEED MORE SCIPTURE? CLICK ME

    ................

    SIN is the breaking of God's Commandments (James 2:9-11; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4)

    Those who CONTINUE in UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

    ................

    God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

    Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

    There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

    Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

    In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2018
  4. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Indeed as has been shown above the ORDINANCES in the MOSIAC BOOK of the COVENANT are NOT God's 10 Commandments.

    No it does't. What Sabbath(S) are being referred to in connection with NEW MOONS, MEAT AND DRINK OFFERINGS and FESTIVALS? It is those of Leviticus 23 included in laws and ORDINACES of the annual Jewish festivals. These are special annual festival Sabbath(S) that are NOT God's 4th Commandment but could fall on ANY day of the week connected to the Jewish annual festivals many of which point to Jesus and God's plan of salvation in Shadows.

    Ezekiel 45:17-21,
    It shall be the prince’s duty to furnish the (1) burnt offerings, grain offerings, and drink offerings, at the (2) feasts, the (3) new moons, and the (4) Sabbaths, at all the appointed (2) feasts of the house of Israel: he shall provide the sin offerings, grain offerings, burnt offerings, and peace offerings, to make atonement on behalf of the house of Israel: he shall prepare the sin offering, and the meat offering, and the burnt offering, and the peace offerings, to make reconciliation for the house of Israel. Thus says the Lord GOD; In the first month, in the first day of the month, thou shalt take a young bullock without blemish, and cleanse the sanctuary: And the priest shall take of the blood of the sin offering, and put it upon the posts of the house, and upon the four corners of the settle of the altar, and upon the posts of the gate of the inner court. And so thou shalt do the seventh day of the month for every one that erred, and for him that is simple: so shall ye reconcile the house. In the first month, in the fourteenth day of the month, ye shall have the Passover, a Feast of seven days; unleavened bread shall be eaten.

    1 Chronicles 23:31
    and whenever (1) burnt offerings were presented to the LORD on the (4) Sabbaths, at the (3) New Moon (2) feasts and at the appointed festivals. They were to serve before the LORD regularly in the proper number and in the way prescribed for them.

    2 Chronicles 2:4,
    Now I am about to build a temple for the Name of the LORD my God and to dedicate it to him for burning fragrant incense before him, for setting out the consecrated bread regularly, and for making (1) burnt offerings every morning and evening and on the (4) Sabbaths, at the (3) New Moons and at the appointed (2) festivals of the LORD our God. This is a lasting ordinance for Israel.

    Hosea 2:11,
    I will stop all her celebrations: her (2) yearly festivals, her (3) New Moons, her (4) Sabbaths and all her (2) appointed festivals.

    A High Sabbath day however was when a Holy convocation annual feast day falls on the same day as God’s weekly Sabbath commandment (Ex 20:8-11). This is an extension of the term "high day" found in the King James Version at John 19:31-42.

    The seven festivals do not necessarily occur on weekly Shabbat (seventh-day Sabbath) and are called by the name miqra ("called assembly") in Hebrew (Lev. 23). Three of them occur in spring: the first and seventh days of Pesach (Passover), and Shavuot (Pentecost) which occurs in summer. Three occur in fall, in the seventh month, and are also called shabbaton: Rosh Hashanah (Trumpets); Yom Kippur, the "Sabbath of Sabbaths" (Atonement); and the first and eighth days of Sukkoth (Tabernacles).

    Sometimes the word shabbaton is extended to mean all seven festivals. The Gospel of John says of the night immediately following Christ's burial that "that sabbath day was a high day" (19:31-42). That night was Nisan 15, just after the first day of Passover week (Unleavened Bread) and an annual miqra and rest day, in most chronologies. The King James Version may thus be the origin of naming the annual rest days "High Sabbaths" in English (source: wiki).

    All of the above have their origin from the ceremonial laws of Moses found in Lev 23; Num 10; 28; 29. All these references are in connection to; (1) Food and Drink offerings, (2) Feast days, (3) New Moons and (4) annual feast Sabbath(s)

    CONCLUSION: it should be very clear that Col 2:14-17 is referring to the ceremonial laws of Moses along with the annual Jewish feast days that all pointed to the coming of Jesus. When Jesus died on the cross the Jewish feasts along with the burnt offerings, food and drink offerings, festivals and New Moon festival Sabbath(s) which all pointed to Jesus where a shadow of things to come. Many of the feast days (holy convocations) in Lev 23 where no work days in the Greek Col 2:16 were Sabbaton cease from secular work and rest.

    NEED MORE SCIPTURE? CLICK ME


    Hope this helps

    .
     
  5. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    No it doesnt. As shown above already in the first post the within CHAPTER and SCRIPTURE CONTEXT is the laws of ORDINANCES found CIVIL, CEREMONIAL and ECCLESIASTICAL laws found in the MOSIAC BOOK of the COVENANT. v14 and v11 talking about the ORDINANCE of CIRCUMCISION while v16-17 is referring to the subject of SHADOWS pointing to Jesus of which the NEW MOONS, ANNUAL FESTIVALS, MEAT AND DRINK OFFERINGS and ANNUAL CEREMONIAL SABBATHS were a part of. God's 10 Commandments and the 4th Commandment is not even discussed in COL 2 except for the penalty of SIN which was against us.

    Because that is the correct GREEK word to use. The GREEK word SABBATON has many meanings depending on the CONTEXT that is it used in. The GREEK word is translated GNP standing for gentative neuter plural meaning SABBATHS not Sabbath of the 4th Commandment. The word SABBATON means to cease from secular labor or business. Besides the annual high SABBATHS of Lev 23 there was also days of HOLY CONVOCATION which no work was to be done. This also has application to LEV 23.

    If you are NOT a PART of God's ISRAEL in the NEW COVENANT you are not a part of the NEW COVENANT.

    Gentiles are now grafted in to God's ISRAEL (ROMANS 11:16-27)

    THERE IS NEITHER JEW NOR GREEK, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: FOR YOU ALL ONE IN CHRIST JESUS AND IF YOU BE CHRISTS, THEN YOU ARE ABRAHAM'S SEED FOR YOU ARE ALL ONE IN CHRIST JESUS and IF YOU BE CHRISTS, THEN ARE YOU ABRAHAM'S SEED, AND HEIRS ACCORDING TO THE PROMISE (Galatians 3:28).

    No explanation needed, believe God's Word, and again..........

    FOR THEY ARE NOT ALL ISRAEL WHICH ARE OF ISRAEL,: NEITHER, BECAUSE THEY ARE THE SEED OF ABRAHAM, ARE THEY ALL CHILDREN: but in Isaac shall thy seed be called <Christ> That is, THEY WHICH ARE THE CHILDREN OF THE FLESH, THESE ARE NOT THE CHILDREN OF GOD: BUT THE CHILDREN OF THE PROMISE <those who believe> ARE COUNTED FOR THE SEED (Romans 9:6).

    FOR HE IS NOT A JEW WHICH IS ONE OUTWARDLY; NEITHER IS THAT CIRCUMCISION, WHICH IS OUTWARDS IN THE FLESH: BUT HE IS A JEW WHICH IS ONE INWARDLY; and CIRCUMCISION IS OF THE HEART, IN THE SPIRIT, AND NOT IN THE LETTER; whose praise is not of men, but of God. (Romans 2:28-29)

    God's Israel...............

    Galatians 3:28-29, THERE IS NEITHER JEW NOR GREEK, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

    Colossians 3:11,
    WHERE THERE IS NEITHER JEW NOR GREEK circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.

    Romans 10:11-13, For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. FOR THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN JEW OR GREEK: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. FOR WHOSOEVER SHALL CALL UPON THE NAME OF THE LORD SHALL BE SAVED.

    Romans 2:28-29, FOR HE IS NOT A JEW WHICH IS ONE OUTWARDLY; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: BUT HE IS A JEW WHICH IS ONE INWARDLY ; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

    The New Covenant is for God's Israel..........

    Jeremiah 31:33-4, BUT THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL; After those days, says the LORD, I WILL PUT MY LAW IN THEIR INWARD PARTS,AND WRITE IT IN THEIR HEARTS; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, says the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

    Hebrews 8:10-12,
    BUT THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL; After those days, says the LORD, I WILL PUT MY LAW IN THEIR INWARD PARTS, AND WRITE IT IN THEIR HEARTS; and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

    Galatians 3:29,
    AND IF YOU BE CHRISTS THEN YOU ARE ABRAHAMS SEED AND HEIRS ACCORDING TO THE PROMISE.

    The New Covenant is for God's Israel which represent those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God’s WORD. If you are not part of God's Israel you are not part of the New Covenant (Hebrews 8:10-12).

    God's Israel are those that believe the Word of God and follow it and is why Jesus says If you love me keep my commandments (John 14:15)

    That is not true at all. We are commanded to obey ALL of God's Commandments all through the Bible.

    Matthew 5:18-19 [18], For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. [19], Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

    James 2:8-12
    [8], If you fulfill the royal law according to the scripture, You shall love your neighbor as yourself, you do well: [9], But if you have respect to persons, you commit sin, and are convicted of the law as transgressors. [10], For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. [11], For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if you commit no adultery, yet you kill, you are become a transgressor of the law.

    What did Jesus and the Apostles teach about the Sabbath in the New Testament?

    1. It is lawful to do good on the Sabbath (Matt 12:1-8; 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56)
    2. Jesus made the Sabbath for all mankind (Hebrews 1:2; John 1:1-3; 14; Ephesians 3:9; Colossians 1:16-17; Mark 2:27)
    3. Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath (Mark 2:28)
    4. If you do not believe and follow God you cannot enter His Sabbath rest (Hebrews 4)
    5. It is one of God’s 10 commandments we break it we are guilty or breaking all (James 2:8-12)
    6. Breaking it is sin (1 John 3:4)
    7. God’s true followers keep it Holy as God commanded (Rev 14:12; Rev 22:14; Eze 20:20)
    8. Jesus is our example and he kept the Sabbath (Matt 12:1-8; 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56; John 2:6; Matt 16:24; 1 Cor 11:1; Eph 5:1-21; Pet 2:20-22)
    9. The Apostle kept the Sabbath with both Jews and Gentiles (Acts 13:14; 13:27; 13:44; 15:21; 16:13; 17:2; 18:4; Rev 1:10)

    NEED MORE SCRIPTURE CLICK ME.

    Acts 20:7 says [7], And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the next day; and continued his speech until midnight.

    Breaking bread here means they were having a meal together the CONTEXT is that PAUL was departing the NEXT DAY v5; 14-16. There is no mention here that God's 4th Commandment has now been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day.

    God's LAW is written for those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD through FAITH. UNBELIEVERS are not a part of God's ISRAEL. This is the same in the NEW COVENANT.

    Deuteronlmy 5:14, But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD your God: in it you shall not do any work, you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your manservant, nor your maidservant, nor your ox, nor your donkey, nor any of your cattle, nor your STRANGER that is within your gates; that your manservant and your maidservant may rest as well as you.

    Hebrew Dictionaries w/TVM, Strong - H1616 STRANGER גּר גּיר : gêr gêyr; gare, gare; From H1481; properly a guest ; by implication A FOREIGNER: - alien, sojourner, stranger. (NOT APART OF ISRAEL)

    That is not true at all. Happy to share the scriptures but would make this post too long. maybe in another post.

    ACTS 15 was in relation to a dispute over the ORDINANCE of CIRCUMCISION from the MOSIAC BOOK of the COVENANT not the 10 Commandments...

    Acts 15:1-2 [1], And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brothers, and said, Except you be circumcised after the manner of Moses, you cannot be saved. [2], When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem to the apostles and elders about this question.

    the outcome...

    [17], That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, on whom my name is called, said the Lord, who does all these things. [18], Known to God are all his works from the beginning of the world. [19], Why my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God: [20], But that we write to them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood. [21], For Moses of old time has in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

    So nope there is no scripture here that says God's 4th Commandment is Abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day.

    That is not true at all either. Where does it say in any of the writings of PAUL that Gods' 4th Commandment in now abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day? There is no a single scripture.

    All the Aposltes kept ALL of God's Commandments including the 4th Commandment which is one of the 10 as did Jesus. Paul kept the Sabbath (4th Commandment) with both Jews and Gentiles. Jesus taught us the correct way to keep the Sabbath (doing good)

    1. Jesus taught that it is lawful to do GOOD on the Sabbath? (Matt 12:1-8; 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56)

    2. Jesus taught that God's Sabbath was made for mankind and not man for the Sabbath rebuking the tradtions of the Jew in regards to their traditions and interpretation around Sabbath keeping? (Mark 2:27-28; Matthew 12:8)

    3. Jesus taught that he was the maker and creator of the Sabbath and the God of creation? (Hebrews 1:2; John 1:1-3; 14; Ephesians 3:9; Colossians 1:16-17; Mark 2:27)

    4. Jesus is our example who kept the Sabbath as well as all those who followed him (Matt 12:1-8; 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56; John 2:6; Matt 16:24; Acts 13:14; 13:27; 13:44; 15:21; 16:13; 17:2; 18:4; Rev 1:10)

    5. Jesus taught that break God's Commandments and teach others to do so will not enter God's Kingdom? (Matt 5:19)

    6. Jesus taught that not a jot or tittle will pass from God's LAW until heaven and earth pass away? (Matthew 5:18)

    7. Jesus taught that on the two great commandments of LOVE to GOD and MAN hang ALL the LAW and the prophets (Matthew 22:36-40)

    8.
    Paul warns us that those who do NOT believe and follow GOD do not enter into God's Sabbath rest because of their SINS and UNBELIEF (Hebrews 3-4)

    9. Jesus, Paul, James, John and Peter taught there is 10 Commandments including the Sabbath and not 9 commandments and if you break one of God's Commandments you stand guilty before God of breaking all of them (James 2:8-12).

    10. Timothy teaches thatALL SCRIPTURE (OLD AND NEW Testament) is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness (2 Timothy 3:16)

    Why would Jesus and the Apostles give us further instruction in relation to Sabbath keeping building on the OLD TESTAMENET scriptures if we no longer need to keep it? (Point 1, 2, 3, 6)

    That is not true at all where in Galation does it say that these scriptures are talking about God's 4th Commandment which is one of the 10 Commandments? The 4th Commandment or Sabbath is not even mentioned here in these scriptures now is there any scripture in all of God's WORD that says God's 4th Commandment is Abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day.

    "DITTO" Where in ROMANS does it say that these scriptures are talking about God's 4th Commandment which is one of the 10 Commandments? The 4th Commandment or Sabbath is not even mentioned here in these scriptures now is there any scripture in all of God's WORD that says God's 4th Commandment is Abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day. The subject matter in Romans 14 is food/fasting; food offered to idols and eating these foods in connected to Holy days. The Sabbath is not once mentioned neither does it say God's 4th Commandment is now abolished and we are now to keep Sunday as a Holy day.

    We do not follow the teaching and traditions of men that teach others to break the Commandments of God we follow the bible and the bible alone. Only God's WORD is true and we should BELIEVE and FOLLOW it. There is not ONE scritpure in ALL of God's WORD that says God's 4th Commandment has now been ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day.

    Where does it say in the scripture quoted that everyday is a Sabbath? Where does it say in God's WORD that Sunday is "THE LORDS DAY"? There is NO scriptures that says any of this. Yet God's WORD clearly says what day is "THE LORDS DAY" Do you know the scripture?

    WHAT DAY IS THE LORDS DAY?

    Matthew 12:8, FOR THE SON OF MAN IS LORD EVEN OF THE SABBATH DAY.​

    God's WORD says that "THE LORDS DAY = THE SABBATH DAY. Where does it say in the Bible that Sunday is the LORDS DAY?

    ................

    SIN is the breaking of God's Commandments (James 2:9-11; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4)

    Those who CONTINUE in UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

    ................

    God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

    Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

    There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

    Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

    In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).

    Hope this helps.

    .
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2018
  6. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Well now that we have gone through your websites post with the scriptures...

    Please feel free to show us from the Scriptures alone........

    1. That God's 4th Commandment has now been ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a HOLY day?

    2. That Jesus is a Sabbath?

    3. The Sabbath (seventh day) was ever changed from the seventh to the first day of the week?

    4. Where we are told to keep the first day of the week holy?

    5. Where the first day of the week (Sunday) is ever called a holy day?

    6. That says that Jesus ever kept the first day (Sunday)?

    7. That tells us to keep the first day in honour of the resurrection of Christ?

    8. Where the first day is ever given any sacred name?

    9. That affirms that any of the apostles ever kept the first day as the Sabbath?

    10. From any apostolic writings that authorizes Sunday observance as the Sabbath of God?

    11. Where we are told not to work on the first day of the week?

    12. That says the seventh day is no longer God's Sabbath day?

    13. That says the seventh day Sabbath is ABOLISHED?

    14. Where the apostles ever taught any convert to keep the first day of the week as a Sabbath?

    15. Where the first day was ever appointed to be kept as the Lord's Day?

    16. Where the first day of the week is ever called the Lord's Day?

    17. That says that the first day of the week was ever sanctified and hallowed as a day of rest?

    18. That says that the Father or the Son (Jesus) rested on the first day of the week?

    19. That says that Jesus, Paul or any other of the apostles taught anyone to observe the first day of the week as the Sabbath?

    20. That calls the seventh day the “Jewish Sabbath” or one text that calls Sunday the “Christian Sabbath”?

    21. Telling man to keep the first day of the week holy or to worship or rest on the first day of the week?

    22. Authorizing anyone to set aside God's Sabbath and observe any other day?

    23. Showing any of the apostles keeping the first day of the week as the Sabbath?

    24. Authorizing someone to set aside the fourth Commandment and observe any other day of the week?

    25. Where any apostle taught us to keep the first day of the week as the Sabbath?

    26. Declaring that the seventh day is no longer the Eternal Sabbath day?

    27. Where Sunday is now appointed to be kept as the New Testament Sabbath or holy day?

    Ok that is enough from me. There is a lot of scripture that disagrees with you. I hope you can take the time to consider God's WORD and try to answer the questions above. If you cannot then maybe we should consider who should we follow the teachings and traditions of the RCC or the WORD of God?

    Only God's WORD is true and we should BELIEVE and FOLLOW him who calls us in LOVE to LOVE another.

    ................

    SIN is the breaking of God's Commandments (James 2:9-11; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4)

    Those who CONTINUE in UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

    ................

    God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

    Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

    There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

    Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

    In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).
     
  7. Bob S

    Bob S Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Oy! Who would take the time to read all that LGW? You keep copying and pasting the samo samo and it does not change the fact that in 2Cor3:7-11, the thorn in your side, tells us the 10 commandments with its weekly Sabbath were a temporary set of rules. Those rules were to be the guide for Israel. God didn't give those rules to any other nation and they were not the rules of the forefathers Deut 5 which was the prelude to Moses giving the 10 to the Israelites. Your long drawn out "proof" posts that Sabbath didn't mean weekly Sabbath in Col 2 has been extinguished by the simple verses in 2Cor 3:7-11. Too bad you refuse to entertain the real truth.
     
  8. Bob S

    Bob S Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Welcome R Hartono. Your post is very enlightening. Stick around and join the battle in proclaiming the real truth.
     
  9. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    The good news for him is that while it is true that Sunday is week-day-1 the day Christ was resurrected - it is not the Bible Sabbath.

    Exodus 20:10 "the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD (YHWH)"
     
  10. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    Welcome to the debate Hartono.

    BTW we believe that that statement you posted above is not true at all. (for starters... :)_

    Col 2 is all about not "making stuff up" -- it is not about deleting even one word of scripture.
     
  11. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    The "New Covenant" (which interestingly enough - you do not even quote or provide a reference to the quote) is made with "the House of Israel" Jeremiah 31:31--3. This means that the moral law of God known to Jeremiah and his readers is "written on the heart" -- according to the New Covenant.

    1. Only one Gospel Gal 1:6-9
    2. That Gospel "was preached to Abraham" Gal 3:8
    3. "Gospel preached to us just as it was to them also" Heb 4:2
    4. The New Covenant details the benefits in the "one Gospel"

    That is also true of the command "do not take God's name in vain" - the new Testament never commands Christians to obey that command.

    And that fact means nothing in terms of giving Christians permission to ignore even one of the Commandments of God... as we all know.

    Less creative writing .. more scripture please.

    That is a one-off meeting for the purpose of farewell to Paul

    By contrast "every Sabbath" they meet for Gospel preaching and worship in Acts 18:4 with both Jews and gentiles - in the synagogue.

    what is more the Acts 15 crisis for the church is resolved in part due to the reliable fact that "Moses is preached every Sabbath in the synagogues"

    Not even one - "every-wee-day-1 they gather for Gospel preaching" in the entire Bible - NT or not.

    Until you read it.

    In Isaiah 56:6-8 gentiles are specifically singled out for Sabbath keeping.
    In Isaiah 66:23 it is "ALL MANKIND" - "From Sabbath to Sabbath shall aLL MANKIND come before Me to worship"
    Mark 2:27 before the cross "Sabbath was MADE for MANKIND" -- speaking of the Genesis 2 making of man and the Sabbath.

    I suppose it would be - if your prior statement were true.

    There is no evidence of anyone being told "not to take God's name in vain" prior to Sinai.
    There is no evidence that Moses ever took a nap
    There is no text before Sinai telling Noah what a clean vs unclean animal is.
    There is no text telling Cain that murder is sin before he killed Able

    We could "play those games all day long"

    But they don't carry the weight of scripture. And most of us know it.

    We also know that many if not all the main stream Christian denominations have statements of faith affirming the fact that the Sabbath commandment was given to mankind in Eden

    Easy examples would be --

    The Baptist Confession of Faith,
    the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
    D.L. Moody,
    Even the RCC admits the Sabbath Commandment is for all mankind
     
  12. Bob S

    Bob S Well-Known Member Supporter

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    What "we"(Who is we?)(Ellen didn't believe that) believe is one thing and what the real truth is are two different things. Why did Paul end the statement with the following fact? 17 For these rules are only shadows of the reality yet to come. And Christ himself is that reality.

    If it is not deleting even one word then you are sinning because you are not keeping the feast days and new moons. That is quite a conundrum isn't it.

    Why would anyone feel the need to worship shadows?
     
  13. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    God's WORD disagrees with you Bob. Do you have any scripture?

    1. NEED MORE SCRIPTURE? CLICK ME

    2. NEED MORE SCRIPTURE? CLICK ME

    ................

    SIN is the breaking of God's Commandments (James 2:9-11; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4)

    Those who CONTINUE in UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

    ................

    God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

    Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

    There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

    Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

    In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).
     
  14. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    Easy examples would be --

    The Baptist Confession of Faith,
    the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
    D.L. Moody,
    Even the RCC admits the Sabbath Commandment is for all mankind

    They may all look like "Ellen White" to you -- but that is not the case for everyone else.

    1. Animal sacrifices and those ceremonies given in animal sacrifices - were pointing forward to a sacrifice for sin - Christ.

    Not true of the Bible Sabbath in Genesis 2:1-3 as Exodus 20:11 reminds us.

    2. Paul was not deleting those sacrifices in Col 2 - he was addressing the problem of people "making stuff up" whether they used Bible topics as their starting point or not. In Hebrews 10 Paul deals with the laws about animal sacrifices being "taken away". Were you wishing to discuss that chapter?

    BTW - Paul was continuing to observe feast days - Col 2 is not where he "condemned himself"
     
  15. Bob S

    Bob S Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Sure do LGW How about 2Cor 3:7-11 where Paul writes that the 10 commandments WERE transient. Seems to me that the Sabbath command WAS part of the ministry of death. That goes hand in hand with Col2 where Paul writes that the Sabbath is a shadow and Jesus is reality. So, don't judge me for not observing something that is not there anymore for Jews and never was for gentiles. A broken covenant is no covenant.
     
  16. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    God's WORD disagrees with you Bob. Do you have any scripture to share in relation to COL 2 we are in the NEW Covenant now :). It seems you may need to revisit your understaning of both covenants

    1. NEED MORE SCRIPTURE? CLICK ME

    2. NEED MORE SCRIPTURE? CLICK ME

    ................

    SIN is the breaking of God's Commandments (James 2:9-11; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4)

    Those who CONTINUE in UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

    ................

    God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

    Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

    There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

    Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

    In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).
     
  17. R. Hartono

    R. Hartono Well-Known Member

    +603
    Indonesia
    Protestant
    Married
    The Hebrew did rest their bodies on Sabbath Day in the wilderness for 40 years but that generation was not allowed to enter into the promised land. Mind telling me why people think they can do better.
     
  18. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

    +1,235
    Australia
    SDA
    Married
    Hi RH,

    Some rested, most did not enter into God's REST because of their UNBELIEF not knowing God's WORD and because of SIN (breaking God's Commandments).

    Those walking by FAITH and not by sight BELIEVING and FOLLOWING God's WORD enter both the Gospel rest of FORIVENESS and God's LAWS of LOVE written on the heart of those who BELIEVE God's WORD because of God's promise of LOVE is the fulfilling of God's LAW in those who BELIEVE the WORD of God.

    This is God's NEW COVENANT promise written on the heart to LOVE. Truly, truly I say unto you Jesus says unless a man is Born again he cannot see the KINGDOM of HEAVEN. Whosoever is Born of God does not commit sin (break God's Commandments).

    Sin is the trandgression of God's LAW. If we break any one of God's 10 Commandments we stand before God guily of SIN and are "UNDER THE LAW" because we are condemned by it. Unless we seek God in REPENTANCE and FORGIVENESS will not enter the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

    Do you know the scriptures quoted above?

    ................

    SIN is the breaking of God's Commandments (James 2:9-11; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4)

    Those who CONTINUE in UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

    ................

    God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

    Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

    There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

    Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

    In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).
     
  19. SpiritSong

    SpiritSong The LORD is my Shepherd Supporter

    584
    +854
    United States
    Methodist
    Widowed
    US-Republican
    Well, yes, but he has to work on the 7th day sometimes too! Nurses and Dr.s and the like might find themselves working on any day of the week.

    I remember Jesus saying that if your sheep were caught up in a bind or in some kind of similar situation on the Sabbath, that you would go and rescue it no matter what day of the week it is. Same for the man He healed that day. He asked His detractors if it was OK to do good on the Sabbath. So nurses and Dr.s and the like are doing good on the Sabbath if they have to work on that day. Also, of course, they would be given or choose to take another day off to rest upon. Also, they can be on call, but resting otherwise.
     
  20. Bob S

    Bob S Well-Known Member Supporter

    +925
    Christian
    Married
    The SDA church and Ellen would argue that Sabbath didn't mean the weekly Sabbath, that Sabbath was referring to some sort of Sabbath in the ceremonial laws. Now you are telling me that Paul wasn't deleting those sacrifices in Col 2??? What sacrifices. Keeping feast days was not supposed to be a sacrifice, although they were a yoke around their shoulders.

    If you would read the history of the Colossian church you would see that Colosse was a center for Jews. Also, the gnostics were trying to influence the church. Along with the Jews the gnostics were trying to make the Christians abstain from certain foods, celebrate new moons, Jewish feast days and Sabbaths. In Paul's letter he told them that Jesus is real, circumcision didn't matter and in mentioning that all those things others were trying to force upon them to realize that feast days, new moons and Sabbaths were shadows pointing to Christ the Creator and Redeemer. Paul wrote a similar letter to the Ephesians and in Eoh2:15 wrote: 14 For Christ himself has brought peace to us. He united Jews and Gentiles into one people when, in his own body on the cross, he broke down the wall of hostility that separated us. 15 He did this by ending the system of law with its commandments and regulations. He made peace between Jews and Gentiles by creating in himself one new people from the two groups. 16 Together as one body, Christ reconciled both groups to God by means of his death on the cross, and our hostility toward each other was put to death.

    Question: why would Paul have told the Colossians that they shouldn't allow whoever you think was judging them for keeping feast days, new moons, and Sabbath and tell the Ephesians 15 He(Jesus) did this by ending the system of law with its commandments and regulations. Paul had to be telling the Colossians not to allow anyone to judge them for not keeping feast days, new moons and Sabbath. They were shadows. The Sinai covenant ended at the Cross as verse 15 so plainly points out. It is your preconceived belief system that will not allow you to see the real facts.
     
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