Let Mueller Decide If The President Should Be Indicted

[mark46]

There is no need for Democrats to lose focus from the very important issues being decided in the Senate. There is not need for the Democrats to lose focus from individual House and Senate races. As the Republicans remind everyone, the Senate confirms judges. Winning a majority is a tough job for Democrats. They need to focus.
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Mueller has already indicted or has deals with 4 individuals. That's quite a lot. The trials should take at least a year to complete.

Mueller is moving closer with his investigations.

Mueller may indict Kushner or not. Trump would be free to pardon after the 2018 elections.

Mueller may indict Junior or not. Trump would be free to pardon after the 2018 elections.

IMHO, the president will likely NOT be indicted. Trying to protect someone that he could easily pardon is just not enough to have the constitutional crisis of indicting the president. The bar is very, very high, and don't believe that this has ever happened. OF COURSE, the president could indicted in NY state court after he is a private citizen (if he is guilty of money laundering or other financial offenses).
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BOTTOM LINE
The Democrats need to allow Mueller's investigations to take their course. Of course, those in the Senate Intelligence Committee can continue to do their work. Impeachment is not an issue until 2109, if at all. Having a show trial just to make Pence president and help him in his 2020 race seems wrong in any case.

 

[bhsmte]

There is no need for Democrats to lose focus from the very important issues being decided in the Senate. There is not need for the Democrats to lose focus from individual House and Senate races. As the Republicans remind everyone, the Senate confirms judges. Winning a majority is a tough job for Democrats. They need to focus.
===================
Mueller has already indicted or has deals with 4 individuals. That's quite a lot. The trials should take at least a year to complete.

Mueller is moving closer with his investigations.

Mueller may indict Kushner or not. Trump would be free to pardon after the 2018 elections.

Mueller may indict Junior or not. Trump would be free to pardon after the 2018 elections.

IMHO, the president will likely NOT be indicted. Trying to protect someone that he could easily pardon is just not enough to have the constitutional crisis of indicting the president. The bar is very, very high, and don't believe that this has ever happened. OF COURSE, the president could indicted in NY state court after he is a private citizen (if he is guilty of money laundering or other financial offenses).
========
BOTTOM LINE
The Democrats need to allow Mueller's investigations to take their course. Of course, those in the Senate Intelligence Committee can continue to do their work. Impeachment is not an issue until 2109, if at all. Having a show trial just to make Pence president and help him in his 2020 race seems wrong in any case.

I have no idea what will happen and who will be caught up in the investigation. To date, what I know is in the indictments that have come down, I don't see any evidence that Trump or his staff, were working together with the Russians, to do illegal things to impact the election. I am not saying this evidence does not exist, just saying we have not seen it yet. Lastly, as leaky as Washington is, if the evidence was already discovered, good chance it may have leaked by now.

Let Mueller finish his work and see how the evidence aligns with what he is alleging against certain individuals.

 

[mark46]

While I agree, I would note that Flynn certainly qualifies as "his staff". But, yes, we don't know what Kushner and Junior have done that may be indictable. Kushner COULD be indicted for failure to divulge meeting and lying, but I don't think this is worth an indictment. Mueller has more important things to focus on (like Manafort and Flynn).

I have no idea what will happen and who will be caught up in the investigation. To date, what I know is in the indictments that have come down, I don't see any evidence that Trump or his staff, were working together with the Russians, to do illegal things to impact the election. I am not saying this evidence does not exist, just saying we have not seen it yet. Lastly, as leaky as Washington is, if the evidence was already discovered, good chance it may have leaked by now.

Let Mueller finish his work and see how the evidence aligns with what he is alleging against certain individuals.

 

[DaisyDay]

Does Mueller have that authority?

 

[hislegacy]

And Mueller might find a whole bunch of nothing regarding the President, Don Jr and or Jared Kushner.

That is also a possibility to the chagrin to the talking heads.

 

[bhsmte]

While I agree, I would note that Flynn certainly qualifies as "his staff". But, yes, we don't know what Kushner and Junior have done that may be indictable. Kushner COULD be indicted for failure to divulge meeting and lying, but I don't think this is worth an indictment. Mueller has more important things to focus on (like Manafort and Flynn).

I get that.

Here is the thing though, this investigation was begun, to primarily determine if Trump or his team, colluded to do illegal things, to impact the actual election. So far, the indictments have been separate issues than whether Trump and his team colluded illegally with the Russians. Again, they may or may not have, we have not seen anything like that yet.

Lastly, if you sicked a special prosecutor on every one in the Congress and other high ranking officials, I'll bet you get a grand jury to indict 10% or more of them, on some kind of crime.

That is the reality of politics folks.

 

[hislegacy]

I get that.

Here is the thing though, this investigation was begun, to primarily determine if Trump or his team, colluded to do illegal things, to impact the actual election. So far, the indictments have been separate issues than whether Trump and his team colluded illegally with the Russians. Again, they may or may not have, we have not seen anything like that yet.

Lastly, if you sicked a special prosecutor on every one in the Congress and other high ranking officials, I'll bet you get a grand jury to indict 10% or more of them, on some kind of crime.

That is the reality of politics folks.

QFT

 

[Go Braves]

It's not just the Dems who care about Mueller being able to do his work unimpeded.


Former US attorneys, GOP officials come to Mueller's defense

Another letter signed by 22 Republican and conservative former members of Congress and other top U.S. officials says efforts to discredit Mueller's work "undermine the institutions that protect the rule of law and so our nation."

"We urge the Administration, members of Congress on both sides of the aisle, and the American public, to support the work of Special Counsel Mueller to its conclusion, whatever it may be," reads the open letter signed by officials including former Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel, former State Department counselor Eliot Cohen and former George W. Bush administration ethics lawyer Richard Painter.

 

[mark46]

Lastly, if you sicked a special prosecutor on every one in the Congress and other high ranking officials, I'll bet you get a grand jury to indict 10% or more of them, on some kind of crime.
That is the reality of politics folks.

I would note that Democrats didn't name the Special Counsel.

However, it is sad to note that so many believe that the Congress is just a bunch of criminals who haven't been caught. Political fights are one thing; they were much worse in the first couple of centuries of our country. But, Reagan and O'Neill finished their day of work and got together over a beer, as did many of the senators. Times have changed.

 

[mark46]

Indeed.

The ONLY reason that Mueller is able to work at all is that there is Republican support in the Senate, and to a lesser degree elsewhere.

The House has its Committee to Protect The President whose major function seems to be to protect the president, and inform WH lawyers of the progress of their Republicans only meetings.

But that's fine. The Senate is different, and always has been. The Senate Intelligence Committee has the respect of the majority from both parties, or at very least the respect of leadership.

It's not just the Dems who care about Mueller being able to do his work unimpeded.


Former US attorneys, GOP officials come to Mueller's defense

 

[Go Braves]

I have no idea what will happen and who will be caught up in the investigation. To date, what I know is in the indictments that have come down, I don't see any evidence that Trump or his staff, were working together with the Russians, to do illegal things to impact the election. I am not saying this evidence does not exist, just saying we have not seen it yet. Lastly, as leaky as Washington is, if the evidence was already discovered, good chance it may have leaked by now.

Let Mueller finish his work and see how the evidence aligns with what he is alleging against certain individuals.

Washington is as leaky as a boat that's been shot up but I think Mueller's more competent. I don't think the Trump administration had the 1st clue that Papadopoulos had plead guilty & had been cooperating with Mueller for months before it became public. Now Trump tried his dang best to minimize that, but it definitely had an impact. Sam Clovis had to withdraw on account of his connections to all that. Now that ended up being a really good thing on account of how he wasn't a scientist, hadn't taken a single graduate level course in science & couldn't answer basic questions about it, & yet Trump wanted him to be a top scientist for the country.

 

[bhsmte]

Washington is as leaky as a boat that's been shot up but I think Mueller's more competent. I don't think the Trump administration had the 1st clue that Papadopoulos had plead guilty & had been cooperating with Mueller for months before it became public. Now Trump tried his dang best to minimize that, but it definitely had an impact. Sam Clovis had to withdraw on account of his connections to all that. Now that ended up being a really good thing on account of how he wasn't a scientist, hadn't taken a single graduate level course in science & couldn't answer basic questions about it, & yet Trump wanted him to be a top scientist for the country.

I agree Mueller is very competent, but if certain evidence exists, several will have access to it, which is why leaks are so hard to control.

 

[bhsmte]

I would note that Democrats didn't name the Special Counsel.

However, it is sad to note that so many believe that the Congress is just a bunch of criminals who haven't been caught. Political fights are one thing; they were much worse in the first couple of centuries of our country. But, Reagan and O'Neill finished their day of work and got together over a beer, as did many of the senators. Times have changed.

Really doesn't have much to do with my original statement, which I stand by.

 

[Go Braves]

I agree Mueller is very competent, but if certain evidence exists, several will have access to it, which is why leaks are so hard to control.

I don't think any big evidence would be leaked out from Mueller's end of things on account of him being too competent to let that into the hands of anybody who'd be careless. Smaller things, sure. Trump would have been doing his dang best to discredit Papa long before it was made public that he'd plead guilty had they the 1st clue about it. He'd been working Mueller for several months without a leak about it.

 

[Rion]

I have no idea what will happen and who will be caught up in the investigation. To date, what I know is in the indictments that have come down, I don't see any evidence that Trump or his staff, were working together with the Russians, to do illegal things to impact the election. I am not saying this evidence does not exist, just saying we have not seen it yet. Lastly, as leaky as Washington is, if the evidence was already discovered, good chance it may have leaked by now.

Let Mueller finish his work and see how the evidence aligns with what he is alleging against certain individuals.

Welcome to the "You're a Trump fan, because..." club. Your official card is in the mail, and the t-shirt will be sent after we get the next batch in. If you have any questions, please email us at customer.service@wrongthink.com

 

[KCfromNC]

Here is the thing though, this investigation was begun, to primarily determine if Trump or his team, colluded to do illegal things, to impact the actual election. So far, the indictments have been separate issues than whether Trump and his team colluded illegally with the Russians.

I'm curious how why you feel the Papadopoulos deal isn't at least close to on topic. Seems that a Trump campaign official lying to investigators about his role and the team's plans to set up meetings with Russians is not really a separate issue.

 

[super animator]

I have no idea what will happen and who will be caught up in the investigation. To date, what I know is in the indictments that have come down, I don't see any evidence that Trump or his staff, were working together with the Russians, to do illegal things to impact the election. I am not saying this evidence does not exist, just saying we have not seen it yet. Lastly, as leaky as Washington is, if the evidence was already discovered, good chance it may have leaked by now.

Let Mueller finish his work and see how the evidence aligns with what he is alleging against certain individuals.

What are you predictions if you were a betting man.

 

[Nithavela]

BOTTOM LINE
The Democrats need to allow Mueller's investigations to take their course.

So do the Republicans.

Republicans are coming for Robert Mueller, Schiff claims

 

[bhsmte]

What are you predictions if you were a betting man.

If I had to predict right now, Mueller may indict one or two more people, but again don't know if those indictments will have anything to do with actually working with Russians to impact the elections.

At the end of the day, we may end up with something similar to what the justice department (Comey) said about Hilary; Trump's people were careless, but there is no evidence they broke the law in working with the Russians, to impact the actual election. In regards to obstruction of justice with Comey firing? There is some smoke there, but Comey's own testimony to the senate, weakens that case IMO and it doesn't even come close, to what Nixon did with obstructing during the water gate investigation. If something like this does happen, it would be quite ironic, considering Comey was the one that leaked information for the press, so a special counsel would be appointed.

 

[bhsmte]

I'm curious how why you feel the Papadopoulos deal isn't at least close to on topic. Seems that a Trump campaign official lying to investigators about his role and the team's plans to set up meetings with Russians is not really a separate issue.

Again, it just looks bad, just like the things Hilary did with emails, looked really bad (likely worse). Until they can come up with evidence, Trump's people were actively working with the Russians, to do illegal things to actually impact the election, you don't really have anything with teeth, except some people who look a bit foolish.