Lesbian bishop installs Muslim prayer space

[FireDragon76]

So let me get this straight. You're skeptical of non-denominational Christianity because of their rock music and independent church polity. But you're ok with Muslim prayer which rejects the divinity of Jesus?

No, it's deeper than that. I'm skeptical of religious entertainment, cultural conservativism, a vague pietism with a veneer of Christianity. Our church only has limited pulpit and altar fellowship with Episcopalians, Presbyterian-USA, Methodists, and a few others, and I'd rather share the building with them first. Because we are on the same page religiously in the essentials.

It is only a preference, it is not something I would leave my church over, and I did not presume at the time to be fit to judge them for their choices (we are in sketchy financial shape, so I can understand the motivations). It doesn't ruin the church for me that they let some other folks worship there. I worshipped for several years in a military chapel that also had Jewish services and the cross could be hidden. It was no less a church for doing so.

 

[FireDragon76]

I just don't see why being anti-Muslim needs to be part of the Christian faith. We can disagree with Islam on important points of doctrine without villifying Muslims as human beings, and their religion is part of their experience as a human being.

I do believe in Jesus Christ as the Savior of the world, of course, but that doesn't mean I should demean the Muslims desire to worship God in their own way. People should be free to practice the religion they desire, and contempt and hatred are not Christian virtues.

Bishop Brunne in Sweden did not get her wish to have the cross removed from the Seaman's chapel in Stockholm, she does not have the authority to do so. It is important to note the Seaman's chapel is for sailors in Sweden's merchant marine and other sailors travelling around the world. It is not an ordinary church. So her suggestion needs to be kept in that context.

 

[Original Happy Camper]

Bishop Brunne in Sweden

Lesbian bishop

Do you see a problem with the above?

 

[fat wee robin]

I'm saying what you are talking about is not truely biblical. Worshipping the one true God, and having the correct beliefs about him, are separate issues. Jesus said even the Samaritans worship what they do not know, meaning it is possible for people outside the faith to worship God.

I am not so much worried about the Moslems as many of them have better idea of God ,and we should be charitable to them in a general way, as with all people ,but to single them out for special treatment, while at the same time getting rid of signs of christianity like the Cross, evidently shows that the person is NOT a christian at all .
It is true that christians often have the habit of disputing about détails which are not neccessary to to our core relationship to God ,and so cause strife where there need be none, but same sex marriage , is a sign that the person has not the Holy Spirit guiding them ,but another spirit , so whatever they think will be twisted
and fundmentally antagonistic to the very laws of Creation .

 

[fat wee robin]

I just don't see why being anti-Muslim needs to be part of the Christian faith. We can disagree with Islam on important points of doctrine without villifying Muslims as human beings, and their religion is part of their experience as a human being.

I do believe in Jesus Christ as the Savior of the world, of course, but that doesn't mean I should demean the Muslims desire to worship God in their own way. People should be free to practice the religion they desire, and contempt and hatred are not Christian virtues.

Bishop Brunne in Sweden did not get her wish to have the cross removed from the Seaman's chapel in Stockholm, she does not have the authority to do so. It is important to note the Seaman's chapel is for sailors in Sweden's merchant marine and other sailors travelling around the world. It is not an ordinary church. So her suggestion needs to be kept in that context.

So , is it more a place of prayer than a christian Church, as that makes difference ?

 

[FireDragon76]

Lesbian bishop

Do you see a problem with the above?

It's pointless to discuss this issue with you since you have already made up your mind, I can see. You feel the need to use all caps, clearly you just want to goad me into getting into an arguement with you. Needless to say, my denomination, which is in fellowship with the Church of Sweden, does ordain gay and lesbian pastors, and has for almost a decade now, and congregations are free to call whomever they want to be their pastor, as God leads them.

 

[Original Happy Camper]

Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination. KJV

Would this also apply to womenkind ?

ie

Thou shalt nor lie with womankind as with mankind: it is abomination

 

[Original Happy Camper]

It's pointless to discuss this issue with you since you have already made up your mind, I can see. You feel the need to use all caps, clearly you just want to goad me into getting into an arguement with you. Needless to say, my denomination, which is in fellowship with the Church of Sweden, does ordain gay and lesbian pastors, and has for almost a decade now, and congregations are free to call whomever they want to be their pastor, as God leads them.

Not all caps just bolded from where I copied it Not trying to Goad you.

Can you provide scripture for women to be priests, pastors ect?

 

[FireDragon76]

The thread is NOT about Islam, but a so -called bishop (christian ), who evidently hates Jesus . You evidently are in support of her ,WHY ? Do you have the same values perhaps ?

I don't necessarily agree with her, but I can certainly understand her reasoning, and the need to seek to find ways to live in peace with our neighbors and share with them the love of Jesus. So I give her the benefit of the doubt and just let the Swedish church handle their own affairs.

Bolding "Lesbian bishop" does nothing but shows you focus on the wrong things in judging people. She is not a freak, she is a human being first. I don't presume to judge Her Grace. She has been called and ordained to be a bishop by her church, in her nation, and we in the Evangelical Lutheran Church of America also recognized her authority and jurisdiction as a bishop in Stockhcolm.

 

[FireDragon76]

Can you provide scripture for women to be priests, pastors ect?

Women and men are equal in dignity before God. Jesus assumed a human nature which includes both men and women. Therefore, women are capable of priestly ministry, preaching, speaking the words of absolution on behalf of Christ, and administering the sacraments.

We have had women as pastors since the early 70's, and even our most conservative voices support this practice vehemently. Every believer has a priestly vocation, without exception. But for the good order of the church, some are called by God to be pastors, and we believe God calls both men and women to fill that role.

Our churches are free to call whomever they wish, men or women, and the majority of our clergy are in fact men.

 

[Original Happy Camper]

It's very simple, women and men are equal in dignity before God. Jesus assumed a human nature which includes both men and women. Therefore, women are capable of priestly ministry, preaching, speaking the words of absolution on behalf of Christ, and administering the sacraments.

We have had women as pastors since the early 70's, and even our most conservative voices support this practice vehemently. Every believer has a priestly vocation, without exception. But for the good order of the church, some are called by God to be pastors, and we believe God calls both men and women to fill that role.

Our churches are free to call whomever they wish, men or women, and the majority of our clergy are in fact men. We Lutherans are a bit more conservative than Episcopalians or Methodists, who have a much higher percentage of women.

Thanks for the reply

Can you address these verses in the Bible then

1 Timothy 3:2
A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;

1 Timothy 3:12
Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.

 

[FireDragon76]

Thanks for the reply

Can you address these verses in the Bible then

1 Timothy 3:2
A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;

1 Timothy 3:12
Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.

We do not read the Bible with a strictly regulative principle when it comes to church order. We are not biblicists, we never have been (Luther certainly was not), and we regard church order as a secondary issue.

We are Gospel people, preaching God's reconciliation with humanity through Christ That is the Gospel, and that is primary for us. Upholding traditional gender roles is not part of our mission. If the majority of our people find its time is past, we put it aside in the interests of good order.

We do not metaphysically distinguish between bishops, priests, pastors, and laity, it is only a difference in role. We are all a priestly people. Excluding women from holy ministry is the work of man, not God.

 

[Original Happy Camper]

We do not read the Bible with a strictly regulative principle when it comes to church order. We in are not biblicists, we never have been (Luther certainly was not), and we regard church order as a secondary issue.

We are Gospel people, preaching God's reconciliation with humanity through Christ That is the Gospel, and that is primary for us. Upholding traditional gender roles is not part of our mission. If the majority of our people find its time is past, we put it aside in the interests of good order.

We do not metaphysically distinguish between bishops, priests, pastors, and laity, it is only a difference in role. We are all a priestly people. Excluding women from holy ministry is the work of man, not God.

Thanks for the reply

Is Paul wrong then in what he wrote in his epistle?
1 Timothy 3:2
A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;

1 Timothy 3:12
Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.

 

[prodromos]

I was sort of upset that for a while our church was renting out our building to non-denom evangelicals. Mostly because I am wary of that kind of religion and I love my own people in my church and what they teach, and felt it did not serve our denominations mission to be so undiscerning. THey brought in their guitar, drums, and praise music and who knows what they were preaching there. So I can sort of understand the offensiveness of doing this

I can sort of see how this is totally the same (NOT!), but then looking at your subsequent posts I see why you hold people who love Christ as being on the same level as antichrist heretics.

Do Muslims worship a false God? They believe in one God, just as we do.

I suppose we could say that at least one of the multitude of Hindu God's is true, and they are mistaken about the rest. Or then again we could recognise the utter ridiculousness of the position. The God of Islam has nothing in common with the Holy Trinity. It is a demon inspired delusion of Mohammed.

 

[W2L]

It's pointless to discuss this issue with you since you have already made up your mind, I can see. You feel the need to use all caps, clearly you just want to goad me into getting into an arguement with you. Needless to say, my denomination, which is in fellowship with the Church of Sweden, does ordain gay and lesbian pastors, and has for almost a decade now, and congregations are free to call whomever they want to be their pastor, as God leads them.

Wow.

 

[Kenny'sID]

We do not read the Bible with a strictly regulative principle when it comes to church order. We are not biblicists, we never have been (Luther certainly was not), and we regard church order as a secondary issue.

We are Gospel people, preaching God's reconciliation with humanity through Christ That is the Gospel, and that is primary for us. Upholding traditional gender roles is not part of our mission. If the majority of our people find its time is past, we put it aside in the interests of good order.

We do not metaphysically distinguish between bishops, priests, pastors, and laity, it is only a difference in role. We are all a priestly people. Excluding women from holy ministry is the work of man, not God.

Is not being obedient to God part of the Gospel?

FWIW, I know people who stick strictly to the part of the word/bible that allows them to do as they wish and either ignore or exlpain away, if they must, the rest of it.

 

[kiwimac]

Eva Brunne is the world's first openly lesbian bishop. She was promoted to her position by the Church of Sweden in 2009. Obviously, this means the Church of Sweden is apostate and appears to be a politically correct, social club that is stripped of biblical truth. Nevertheless, in Sweden, there is a church is located on the waterfront in Stockholm1. Being a international waterfront location sometimes Muslims enter the port. So, Eva's misguided attempt to accomodate the Muslims is to remove Christian crosses and establish a prayer space for Muslims - in the Church located in Stockholm. She said that airports and hospitals have accommodations for Muslims, so it's only natural to have the same thing in their waterfront church.

Sounds nice doesn't it. But, maybe she doesn't know what it means to be a Christian. But of course not given her outright rebellious sin of lesbianism.

Lesbian bishop in Sweden calls for church to remove crosses and install Muslim prayer space | Christian Apologetics & Research Ministry

Well done her.

 

[kiwimac]

Lesbian bishop

Do you see a problem with the above?

No. My Church accepts LGBT people including as candidates for ordination. Jesus fellowshipped with all kinds of people not once did he declare anyone beyond the pale except, interestingly, those religious people who felt sure they were right.

 

[Original Happy Camper]

WOW

Not one reply to this post
Does this mean youall agree with it?

Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination. KJV

Would this also apply to womenkind ?

ie

Thou shalt nor lie with womankind as with mankind: it is abomination

 

[StrivingFollower]

People here are defending this? Man, this world is weird..