Leonard Cohen's Hallelujah?

[Anygma]

First, i'd like to wish you all a blessed celebration of the resurrection of Our Lord!

now that being said. i'm torn with our organist's choice of music, even if it was just instrumental during the collect at the Easter Vigil. the melody for Leonard Cohen's Hallelujah might be nice but it remain a secular song with the Alleluyah not sung toward glorifying God but instead seem to glorify king David's action/lust toward the woman he saw bathing on the roof

i thought that only sacred music should be played at mass. that there's enough very nice sacred music, that picking secular music could not be justified. what do you think?

i have other concerns that i won't divulge in open forum but request prayers. thanks

 

[JimR-OCDS]

First, i'd like to wish you all a blessed celebration of the resurrection of Our Lord!

now that being said. i'm torn with our organist's choice of music, even if it was just instrumental during the collect at the Easter Vigil. the melody for Leonard Cohen's Hallelujah might be nice but it remain a secular song with the Alleluyah not sung toward glorifying God but instead seem to glorify king David's action/lust toward the woman he saw bathing on the roof

i thought that only sacred music should be played at mass. that there's enough very nice sacred music, that picking secular music could not be justified. what do you think?

i have other concerns that i won't divulge in open forum but request prayers. thanks

I agree. It really has no place in the liturgy.

For one, the meaning of the words even Cohen was all over the map trying to explain.

I think he began with David but mostly fit words that rhymed for effect.

Jim

 

[AMDG]

I agree. It really has no place in the liturgy.

I agree as well (of course my opinion and $1.50 *might* buy you a cup of coffee.)

 

[AMDG]

Our parish was also "treated" to it. Of course, it's not just our opinion that secular music is "verboten" in the Liturgy.

http://matthewhoffman.net/music/

And I'm pretty certain that you can do a search for other documents concerning Liturgical music at www.adoremus.org . Oh well...

On a better topic--have a blessed Easter too!

 

[SolomonVII]

When this song was discussed here before, I think I noted that the chords reminded me of a time where even the demons in hell would be singing their praises to God, in utter and complete defeat.
I don't know if that this would be appropriate for most Catholic Churches on the happiest day of the year when the powers of hell and death have been overcome.

But I am not surprised that there are some Catholic parishes where such mournful notes of lament and defeat are being sounded on this very day where their absolute defeat shall be acknowledged by all.

 

[SolomonVII]

Happy Easter anyways.

 

[Anygma]

Thanks for the links AMDG, i'll look them over and see if i can pass some of it to our keyboardist.

Solomon, if i had known prior to mass that she was going to play that, i would've objected. we are a very small choir, keyboardist and 3 singing ladies total so we all have possibility to have our say. usually we let the keyboardist pick... she has selected some very orthodox Latin songs for us to sing in the past... it's just that during the collect, she does an instrumental and that's when she pick stuff without consulting us. since we're not involved in having to learn it.

i'm sad she picked that special day to introduce something secular of such but it doesn't surprise me really... given what she's involved with. if that's the direction she wants to take and no one else has objection to it, i would have to prayerfully consider leaving the choir. i could possibly end up being vilified for causing the choir to dissolve though. our priest is highly enamoured with the fact we have a choir at this parish.

 

[MKJ]

There is a version of the song with "Catholic" lyrics around. It was written and performed with permission so it might be possible to track it down if someone wanted it. The woman who did it lives in Prince Edward Island. Better for a concert than mass though IMO.

I love Leonard Cohen, but pop music at church is usually misplaced.

 

[Anygma]

There is a version of the song with "Catholic" lyrics around. It was written and performed with permission so it might be possible to track it down if someone wanted it. The woman who did it lives in Prince Edward Island. Better for a concert than mass though IMO.

I love Leonard Cohen, but pop music at church is usually misplaced.

hmm, with a bit of digging, found out her name is Kelly Mooney. here what she say on her myspace page:

"Hallelujah" - here's the story - I re-wrote the lyrics at the request of our parish priest who wanted the Hallelujah at Easter Mass. The original lyrics, though incredible, are not really appropriate for church, and one just doesn't say no to a priest, so I re-wrote the lyrics for Easter Mass and was granted a lyrical adaptation from Leonard Cohen's publisher for the right to present it to you!

i'm under the impression that the priest would've approved either way but i'll look at her lyrics when i have the time.

 

[MKJ]

hmm, with a bit of digging, found out her name is Kelly Mooney. here what she say on her myspace page:



i'm under the impression that the priest would've approved either way but i'll look at her lyrics when i have the time.

I've heard her sing it. They aren't a great literary marvel or anything, but I think they are straightforward enough.

Ah - here is the youtube video I saw of her singing it:

YouTube - Kelley Mooney's spiritual lyrical adaptation of Leonard Cohen's "Hallelujah"

 

[JourneyToPeace]

I like Leonard Cohen as much as anyone does, but I can't imagine ever wanting to hear this during Mass.
It's not an Easter hymn.
It's not even a Christian song.

These are worth it, though:

O Filii et Filiae.
Regina Caeli, Jubila.
This Joyful Eastertide.
Christ, The Lord, Is Risen Today.

Chant from a schola would be equally worth it.

The TLM looks better and better.

 

[Antigone]

Myeah, as much as I love this song - forget about Cohen, it's the Jeff Buckley version that you want - and despite all the Biblical references, it has no place in mass.

Out of curiosity - would it make any difference to you if it were strictly an instrumental piece?

 

[Anygma]

Myeah, as much as I love this song - forget about Cohen, it's the Jeff Buckley version that you want - and despite all the Biblical references, it has no place in mass.

Out of curiosity - would it make any difference to you if it were strictly an instrumental piece?

yes it still matter. music is a language and only a few notes can bring back to memory whole songs. music is powerful and not to be underestimated as it can be used for good or evil. i renounced secular music when i had my big change of heart. it was hard to purge it all from my mind as humming melodies can creep up so insidiously. if you know what the music industry does to albums before mass-reproducing them, you might have a different way of looking at popular music.

and the guideline for music at mass is clear... no secular music allowed.

 

[Antigone]

yes it still matter. music is a language and only a few notes can bring back to memory whole songs. music is powerful and not to be underestimated as it can be used for good or evil. i renounced secular music when i had my big change of heart. it was hard to purge it all from my mind as humming melodies can creep up so insidiously. if you know what the music industry does to albums before mass-reproducing them, you might have a different way of looking at popular music.

and the guideline for music at mass is clear... no secular music allowed.

Maybe it's because we're not native speakers of English, but I doubt most of my fellow countrymen would 'get' what English songs are about; not that they don't understand English, but you'd actually have to stop and think about it.

And I wouldn't call Buckley mass-production. Have you ever listened to that track?

 

[Anygma]

Maybe it's because we're not native speakers of English, but I doubt most of my fellow countrymen would 'get' what English songs are about; not that they don't understand English, but you'd actually have to stop and think about it.

And I wouldn't call Buckley mass-production. Have you ever listened to that track?

never heard of Buckley, aside from the cough syrup.

does it matter if you understand what's being sung if it gives glory to evil? unless the stuff is recorded by independent recording company, the mainstream record industry has black mass said over every albums before it's being copied for distribution. they invoke evil spirit to cling to the music. whenever you listen to such music you welcome those spirit to yourself.

 

[Michie]

I love Leonard Cohen but not appropriate for the Church imo.

 

[JourneyToPeace]

I love Leonard Cohen but not appropriate for the Church imo.

"With Annie gone,
whose eyes to compare
with the morning sun?
Not that I did compare,
But I do compare
Now that she's gone."

Beautiful. Just not Mass material.

 

[Michie]

"With Annie gone,
whose eyes to compare
with the morning sun?
Not that I did compare,
But I do compare
Now that she's gone."

Beautiful. Just not Mass material.

His lyrics are brilliant imo. Last I heard he was a monk living in a Buddhist monastery.

 

[MKJ]

His lyrics are brilliant imo. Last I heard he was a monk living in a Buddhist monastery.

I'm not sure he is there any more. He was a Christian for a while at one point, way back when. He's kind of done it all.

 

[SaraJarvis]

Actually, Cohen was never a Christian. That was Bob Dylan. Cohen was, and always has been, a Jew. He lived in a Buddhist monastery, but stated that "No, I'm not a Buddhist. I'm quite happy with my religion; Judaism."