Lent vs Sabbath

[Noxot]

amazing. that ass was Jesus Christ. Jesus is always saying things like:

john 10:31
The Jews picked up stones again to stone him. 32 Jesus answered them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you going to stone me?”

and we know that if you do something to a little one, that it is as if you did it to Jesus. good or bad things i think both apply.

mark 9:41
For truly, I say to you, whoever gives you a cup of water to drink because you belong to Christ will by no means lose his reward.(9:42) “Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him if a great millstone were hung around his neck and he were thrown into the sea.

or this one seems better to me but I guess together they teach some kind of spiritual thing that is past my knowing, but I believe it is pointing at some kind of spiritual law.

Matt 10:40-42 (ESV)
(10:40) “Whoever receives you receives me, and whoever receives me receives him who sent me. (10:41) The one who receives a prophet because he is a prophet will receive a prophet's reward, and the one who receives a righteous person because he is a righteous person will receive a righteous person's reward. (10:42) And whoever gives one of these little ones even a cup of cold water because he is a disciple, truly, I say to you, he will by no means lose his reward.”

 

[Standing Up]

True. But there are some texts in the Bible are so clear and important that God wrote them with His own finger, and the only texts that were of that nature were the 10 Commandments as listed in Exodus 20. And yet people feel that they can change or ignore something that was written with the finger of God! How presumptuous! What will excuse will that person have in the day of judgement?

Where were the tablets placed? What was the significance?

 

[Albion]

It seems to me that TruthWave7 quoted Isa 28:10. Wonder why it isn't believed.

I'll tell you. Because the NT modifies the OT which was God's revelation for the people of that time and race. Do you not know that Jesus gave a new meaning to the Messiah, that he taught that his kingdom was NOT of this world, that what is in our hearts supercedes the letter of the law, that we are now under Grace and not the Mosaic Law? All of that is unacceptable to a person who thinks that every legalistic principle in the OT is "forever."

But if there is a passage in the OT that is for the Hebrews of that time before the coming of the Savior, and it is modified later in God's word, the modification is to be honored. If one does not, he is denying the nature and importance of the word of God, just like a theological liberal who says that parts of scripture "contain" God's word but not that it "is" God's word. IOW, it is not a case of me not believing a part of the Bible; I accept it all. OTOH, you noticed, I hope, that he never dealt with the verses I mentioned, but just keeps coming back to his interpretation of the ones he prefers.

And thank you for asking.

 

[Pythons]

Going to Mass is not the same as keeping the Sabbath holy.

Yes it's not, neither is what SDA's do the same as "keeping the Sabbath"...
...According to the commandment.
...If one is to "keep it" according to the law of Moses then the SDA's fail.

For one, it starts on Friday at sundown, and ends of Saturday at sundown. During that 24 hour period no secular work, or worldly pleasure seeking is to be done, but persons are to put those things aside and give themselves to worship, fellowship, Bible study, prayer, etc, etc. I doubt that kind of Mass is promoted or enforced by Rome.

That's NOT keeping the sabbath I'm afraid - that was one tiny part of it.

 

[yedida]

Suit yourself, but we follow the New Testament in believing that we are no longer to be judged in the matter of days and feasts now that the Lord by his sacrifice on the Cross has freed us from the ritualistic laws previously required of the Hebrews. Romans 14.5-6 and Galatians 4.7-10

That's all that needs to be said.

Yep. for those that wish to be known as least in the kingdom of heaven, Mt. 5:19.
And he continued:
Mat 5:20 I tell you that you must do better than the teachers of the law and the Pharisees. If you are not more pleasing to God than they are, you will never enter God's kingdom.
Mat 5:21 "You have heard that it was said to our people long ago, 'You must not murder anyone. Any person who commits murder will be judged.'
Mat 5:22 But I tell you, don't be angry with anyone. If you are angry with others, you will be judged. And if you insult someone, you will be judged by the high court. And if you call someone a fool, you will be in danger of the fire of hell.
He didn't mention that you should not murder, only that the Law said you should not. Surely, you're not intimating that because Jesus didn't uphold the do not murder that it is perfectly okay to do this so long as your are not angry, nor insulting toward the one whom you are about to kill, are you? So, therefore, the Law stands firm. It is to be obeyed.

 

[Standing Up]

Yes it's not, neither is what SDA's do the same as "keeping the Sabbath"...
...According to the commandment.
...If one is to "keep it" according to the law of Moses then the SDA's fail.



That's NOT keeping the sabbath I'm afraid - that was one tiny part of it.

Yep. No sparking fires, no electricity or cars on the weekly sabbath. No cooking.

What's for dinner on the sabbath? Reservations, but we have to walk there and so what if they violate the sabbath.

 

[Pythons]

Yep. No sparking fires, no electricity or cars on the weekly sabbath. No cooking.

What's for dinner on the sabbath? Reservations, but we have to walk there and so what if they violate the sabbath.

It goes way past those things as well......
...The Sabbath commandment was corporate and included sacrifice.
...The man in the OT wasn't killed for starting a fire.
...He was killed for being under a burden ( packing sticks ).

 

[Jipsah]

The Pope of Rome has made another call for 1 Billion Catholics to faithfully observe the 40 days of Lent.

Just out of curiousity, is there a pope other then the Pope of Rome that I don't know about? Anyway, seems to me that it's difficult to find fault with asking those who are alleged faithful to act like it by keeping Lent.

Why is it that the Pope of Rome calls for the celebration of Lent based on 40 days of fasting and prayers, but does not also call 1 Billion Catholics to celebrate the 7th day Sabbath once a week

Probably for the same reason that the Pope of Murfreesboro (if there was one) would do the same: because Gentiles aren't called on to keep the Sabbath. The Council of Jerusalem didn't think so, and I see no reason why I, or any other Gentile believer should differ with them. But if you wanna keep the Sabbath, go for it and joy be with you.

, which is based on the perfect number 7

Well, there ya are then! If there is anything that'll convince me every time, it's a perfect number 7. (Especially if rolled coming out...)

and has a commandment written by the finger of God to back it up

And given to the Jews as part of the Law that they didn't keep. You wanna try and stick us under the Law as well? Won't work. Didn't work for them, won't work for us. Our hope is in the savior, not the Law. All the Law serves to do is show us how bad off we are, and how in need of a Savior.

Sabbatarianism is bunk. Legalism is bunk. Judaizing is bunk. Our works are as filthy rags. Our only hope is in the grace and mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ. Contemplate His sacrifice and His grace toward us during Lent, and the rest of the year as well.

 

[Montalban]

Just out of curiousity, is there a pope other then the Pope of Rome that I don't know about?

In Alexandria.
Patriarch of Alexandria - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

An office-holder called 'pope' before the one in Rome

However in everyday language most associate 'the pope' with the one in Rome. Just as there are many kings and queens in the world saying 'the Queen' usually refers to Elizabeth II of the UK

 

[TruthWave7]

And yet Jesus 'worked' on the Sabbath, and when rebuked pointed out David did the same thing. Then Jesus said that the Sabbath is made for man.

Do you understand the difference between secular work vs sacred work? Jesus healing people on the Sabbath, which He did scores of times, is God's work of making people whole physically and spiritually. The difference nowadays is that millions if not billions of professed Christians do what they when they want on any any day of the week ignoring God clear test of fidelity of putting aside the secular and unnecessary work that could be done at another time.

 

[TruthWave7]

What is valid about your question? To me it is like calling apples donkeys.

Are you so dull of hearing that you cannot see the dramatic contrast between the Pope's call to celebrate Lent, which is based solely on church tradition, and yet ignores the Holy Sabbath Day written by the finger of God!!

 

[Montalban]

Do you understand the difference between secular work vs sacred work? Jesus healing people on the Sabbath, which He did scores of times, is God's work of making people whole physically and spiritually. The difference nowadays is that millions if not billions of professed Christians do what they when they want on any any day of the week ignoring God clear test of fidelity of putting aside the secular and unnecessary work that could be done at another time.

How was David eating wheat on the Sabbath 'sacred'?

How does this account for Jesus saying that the Sabbath was made for man?

 

[VolRaider]

I think you may on to something.
Freeing up our sabbath Saturday for a list of household chores, and running churchly interference with football Sundays literally reeks of estrogen.

No, no...God gave us the gift of college football on Saturday, which trumps NFL Sundays! Go Big Orange!

 

[Albion]

No, no...God gave us the gift of college football on Saturday, which trumps NFL Sundays! Go Big Orange!

That'd be Syracuse, of course.

(Actually, I didn't know that UT was ever referred to as the Big Orange)

 

[Montalban]

That'd be Syracuse, of course.

(Actually, I didn't know that UT was ever referred to as the Big Orange)

Big Orange isn't even in Wikipedia!

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

That'd be Syracuse, of course.

(Actually, I didn't know that UT was ever referred to as the Big Orange)

Me neither....Hook 'em horns!

Texas Longhorns BIG ORANGE Official NCAA Logo Poster | eBay
Texas Longhorns BIG ORANGE Official NCAA Logo Poster

Tx Aggies: "Our footballs will blot out the sun!"
Tx Longhorns: "Then we will play in the shade"

300 Spoof Trailer - The 300 Spartans - YouTube

 

[TruthWave7]

Why not? Isn't the Scripture cited about Jesus and Paul being in the synagogue equated with keeping the sabbath?

Lent is based on a 40 day time period once a year, based on church tradition, not Scripture. Sabbath is not based on tradition but on a clear commandment written by the finger of God! Which then has the strongest evidence?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Lent is based on a 40 day time period once a year, based on church tradition, not Scripture. Sabbath is not based on tradition but on a clear commandment written by the finger of God! Which then has the strongest evidence?

http://www.christianforums.com/t7635945-4/#post59908486
Finger of God

 

[Eternally Optimistic]

Lent is based on a 40 day time period once a year, based on church tradition, not Scripture. Sabbath is not based on tradition but on a clear commandment written by the finger of God! Which then has the strongest evidence?

oh really now?

 

[Jipsah]

Sabbath is not based on tradition but on a clear commandment written by the finger of God! Which then has the strongest evidence?

Here's Acts chapter 15. All emphasis here is mine, but the words are all from the Scripture:

1And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved. 2When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question.
3And being brought on their way by the church, they passed through Phenice and Samaria, declaring the conversion of the Gentiles: and they caused great joy unto all the brethren.
4And when they were come to Jerusalem, they were received of the church, and of the apostles and elders, and they declared all things that God had done with them.
5But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.
6And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.
7And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
8And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
9And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
10Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
11But we believe that through the grace of the LORD Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.
12Then all the multitude kept silence, and gave audience to Barnabas and Paul, declaring what miracles and wonders God had wrought among the Gentiles by them.
13And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me:
14Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.
15And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,
16After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:
17That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.
18Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.
19Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
20But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.
21For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.
22Then pleased it the apostles and elders with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas; namely, Judas surnamed Barsabas and Silas, chief men among the brethren:
23And they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia.
24Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:
25It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,
26Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
27We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also tell you the same things by mouth.
28For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
29That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.
30So when they were dismissed, they came to Antioch: and when they had gathered the multitude together, they delivered the epistle:
31Which when they had read, they rejoiced for the consolation.



(The Word of the Lord)


We were not called upon to keep the Law. As St. Peter said: "God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
9And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
10Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
11But we believe that through the grace of the LORD Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

You are, in effect, saying that those first saints of the Church, who had walked with our Lord Himself, got it wrong. I say that they got it right, and that you have it wrong. Posture all you like, but when it comes down to your doctrine and the pronouncements of the Apostles themselves, you lose.