Legalism is another slave master

[GillDouglas]

Today's legalistic Christians are not far off from the Pharisees of Jesus' day (nothing new under the sun) -

"One Sabbath he was going through the grain-fields [Jesus and His disciples broke the rabbinic law of not walking more than 1999 steps], and as they made their way, his disciples began to pluck heads of grain [Jesus' disciples broke the rabbinic law of not harvesting]. And the Pharisees were saying to him, “Look, why are they doing what is not lawful on the Sabbath?” And he said to them, “Have you never read [Burn!]what David did, when he was in need and was hungry, he and those who were with him: how he entered the house of God, in the time of Abiathar the high priest, and ate the bread [show bread] of the Presence, which it is not lawful for any but the priests to eat, and also gave it to those who were with him?” [Jesus used David, the #1 hero of the Jews, to demonstrate his point] And he said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. [The Sabbath is a gift from God, a day of rest spent worshiping God, and not to be spent worrying over the shackles of man made tradition.]So the Son of Man is lord even of the Sabbath.” [Proclamation of His authority, and a clue as to Who Jesus claims to be] (Mark 2: 23-28)

"Again he entered the synagogue, and a man was there with a withered hand. And they watched Jesus, to see whether he would heal him on the Sabbath, so that they might accuse him.[Someone with a non life threatening ailment cannot be treated on the Sabbath according to rabbinic law]And he said to the man with the withered hand, “Come here.” [Certainly this man didn't want to get involved in the dispute between the Religious Leaders and this Teacher] And he said to them, “Is it lawful on the Sabbath to do good or to do harm, to save life or to kill?” [Jesus doesn't question the 4th Commandment, instead He questions the rabbinic laws additionally placed upon God's people]But they were silent. And he looked around at them with anger, grieved at their hardness of heart, and said to the man, “Stretch out your hand.” He stretched it out, and his hand was restored. [This man has faith, or a stronger desire for his hand to be cured]The Pharisees went out and immediately held counsel with the Herodians against him, how to destroy him." [Another proclamation of Jesus' authority has the Pharisees furious] (Mark 3:1-6)

 

[Tolworth John]

The opposite to legalism is licence, the unrestricted indulgence.

We need to balance the rigid following of rules with the need to live lifes that are holy and pure.

Is attendance at church on Sunday legalistic or an expression of devoution?
Is not having sex before getting married legalistic or purity?

Just how different are Christians in the work place from non christians, is it possible to tell at all?

 

[Ron Gurley]

What is legalism? | carm

legalism -NOUN
excessive adherence to law or formula.
theology:dependence on moral law rather than on personal religious faith.

strict, literal, or excessive conformity to the (Mosaic) "Law" or to a religious or moral code

Legalism (or nomism), in Christian theology, is the act of putting the Law of Moses above "The gospe"l by establishing requirements for salvation beyond repentance (grace?) and faith in Jesus Christ and
reducing the broad, inclusive, and general precepts of the Bible to narrow and rigid moral codes.

It is an over-emphasis of discipline of conduct, or legal ideas, usually implying an allegation of misguided rigour, pride, superficiality,
the neglect of mercy, and ignorance of the Grace of God or emphasizing the letter of law at the expense of the spirit (of the Law).

Legalism is alleged against any view that obedience to law, not faith in God's grace, is the pre-eminent principle of redemption.
On the Biblical viewpoint that redemption is not earned by "works",
but that obedient faith is required to enter and remain in the redeemed state

REF: Legalism (theology) - Wikipedia

What does the Bible say about legalism? How can a Christian avoid falling into the trap of legalism?

 

[Ron Gurley]

The first kind of legalism is where the law of God is kept in order to attain salvation.
This is a heresy, a completely false doctrine.

The second kind of legalism is where a person tries to keep or maintain his salvation by keeping the law. This is also a false doctrine.

The last kind of legalism, where a Christian keeps certain laws and regards other Christians who do not keep his level of holiness with contempt, is a frequent problem in the church.

REF: What is legalism? | carm

 

[Ron Gurley]

Rom. 3:28, "For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.

Rom. 4:5, "But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness.”

Gal. 2:21, “I do not nullify the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly.”

 

[Ron Gurley]

warnings about attempting to keep the law in order to maintain salvation:

Gal. 3:10, “For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all things written in the book of the law, to perform them.”

James 2:10, “For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.”

 

[Ron Gurley]

Legalism and License

 

[GillDouglas]

Is attendance at church on Sunday legalistic or an expression of devoution?

I apologize beforehand but I'll be blunt with you, this is a silly question. If you are referring to Christians attending church on Sunday, I say it is necessary in our walk with Christ for spiritual growth and nourishment. Attending church should never be a burden for a Christian.

Is not having sex before getting married legalistic or purity?

I think not having sex before marriage is a good practice if one is able to fight such a temptation. I would think that a good portion of Christians can and have done so. I was not a Christian until later in life, so I cannot offer much opinion in the matter.

Just how different are Christians in the work place from non christians, is it possible to tell at all?

It can be, because we cannot see the heart of a man like God can and it's not something that always comes up in conversation. We cannot determine them to be Christians just because they're nice, or have good morals. However, there are people I work with in west Tennessee that say they're Christians and they do regularly attend church, but some of the things they say or do would indicate otherwise. It seems that the majority of them routinely go to church (and were raised Christian) because "that's just what you do".

Here is my point about legalism. All people sin, and Christians are certainly no exception. When we do sin we often can compound our sin through either rationalizing the behavior or make up for it by doing more of what the Law and/or man's idea of good behavior requires. The first fails to take God's will seriously, the other puts attention on the 'doing' instead of God. The sinner becomes bent on trying to attain a self-sufficient goodness that comes from doing 'good things'. Attention to the law/rules (and the sinner's accomplishments at keeping it) replaces the attention to God and the harder the sinner tries to be good the more sinful that person becomes. That is exactly what happened to the Pharisees/Sadducees of Christ's time, and it's been the same in every age.

 

[listed]

The opposite to legalism is licence, the unrestricted indulgence.

Only in the extreme. Obedience to thee law can only be legalistic or it is not obedience.

We need to balance the rigid following of rules with the need to live lifes that are holy and pure.

One needs to follow the Holy Spirit as He leads us. Galatians 5 indicates this won't lead us to the law. I don't think anyone would say the Holy Spirit would lead us to sin.

Is attendance at church on Sunday legalistic or an expression of devoution?

Please explain this one.

Is not having sex before getting married legalistic or purity?

Could be both. But is it sin to dream and plan about the future event after the marriage ceremony?

Just how different are Christians in the work place from non christians, is it possible to tell at all?

This give me lots of headaches. It is surely a reason Christianity is looked down on.

 

[listed]

What is legalism? | carm

legalism -NOUN
excessive adherence to law or formula.
theology:dependence on moral law rather than on personal religious faith.

strict, literal, or excessive conformity to the (Mosaic) "Law" or to a religious or moral code

Legalism (or nomism), in Christian theology, is the act of putting the Law of Moses above "The gospe"l by establishing requirements for salvation beyond repentance (grace?) and faith in Jesus Christ and
reducing the broad, inclusive, and general precepts of the Bible to narrow and rigid moral codes.

It is an over-emphasis of discipline of conduct, or legal ideas, usually implying an allegation of misguided rigour, pride, superficiality,
the neglect of mercy, and ignorance of the Grace of God or emphasizing the letter of law at the expense of the spirit (of the Law).

Legalism is alleged against any view that obedience to law, not faith in God's grace, is the pre-eminent principle of redemption.
On the Biblical viewpoint that redemption is not earned by "works",
but that obedient faith is required to enter and remain in the redeemed state

REF: Legalism (theology) - Wikipedia

What does the Bible say about legalism? How can a Christian avoid falling into the trap of legalism?

I've found some sort of legalism promoted in every church I've ever attended. How does a person get away from this?

 

[GillDouglas]

I've found some sort of legalism promoted in every church I've ever attended. How does a person get away from this?

It is human nature, hard to escape it entirely.

 

[listed]

I apologize beforehand but I'll be blunt with you, this is a silly question. If you are referring to Christians attending church on Sunday, I say it is necessary in our walk with Christ for spiritual growth and nourishment. Attending church should never be a burden for a Christian.
I think not having sex before marriage is a good practice if one is able to fight such a temptation. I would think that a good portion of Christians can and have done so. I was not a Christian until later in life, so I cannot offer much opinion in the matter.
It can be, because we cannot see the heart of a man like God can and it's not something that always comes up in conversation. We cannot determine them to be Christians just because they're nice, or have good morals. However, there are people I work with in west Tennessee that say they're Christians and they do regularly attend church, but some of the things they say or do would indicate otherwise. It seems that the majority of them routinely go to church (and were raised Christian) because "that's just what you do".

Here is my point about legalism. All people sin, and Christians are certainly no exception. When we do sin we often can compound our sin through either rationalizing the behavior or make up for it by doing more of what the Law and/or man's idea of good behavior requires. The first fails to take God's will seriously, the other puts attention on the 'doing' instead of God. The sinner becomes bent on trying to attain a self-sufficient goodness that comes from doing 'good things'. Attention to the law/rules (and the sinner's accomplishments at keeping it) replaces the attention to God and the harder the sinner tries to be good the more sinful that person becomes. That is exactly what happened to the Pharisees/Sadducees of Christ's time, and it's been the same in every age.

The flesh of our being gives us sever problems.

 

[bbbbbbb]

The flesh of our being gives us sever problems.

Romans 7:14 For we know that the Law is spiritual, but I am of flesh, sold into bondage to sin. 15 For what I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate. 16 But if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that the Law is good. 17 So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me. 18 For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not. 19 For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want. 20 But if I am doing the very thing I do not want, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.


21 I find then the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wants to do good. 22 For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man, 23 but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members. 24 Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death? 25 Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, on the one hand I myself with my mind am serving the law of God, but on the other, with my flesh the law of sin.

 

[Tolworth John]

Only in the extreme. Obedience to thee law can only be legalistic or it is not obedience.One needs to follow the Holy Spirit as He leads us. Galatians 5 indicates this won't lead us to the law. I don't think anyone would say the Holy Spirit would lead us to sin.Please explain this one.Could be both. But is it sin to dream and plan about the future event after the marriage ceremony?This give me lots of headaches. It is surely a reason Christianity is looked down on.

Is obedience legalism?

I don't think so, but the charge of legalism is sometimes made by those who don't want to be obedient.

re dreaming of sex after one is married! Depends who one is dreaming of doesn't it, if it is your spouse that is ok, anyone else it is wrong.

 

[listed]

Is obedience legalism?

Depends on the reason and attitude.

I don't think so, but the charge of legalism is sometimes made by those who don't want to be obedient.

Could be, its just not the normal implications of being legalistic.

re dreaming of sex after one is married! Depends who one is dreaming of doesn't it, if it is your spouse that is ok, anyone else it is wrong.

A person is getting married so they would be dreaming of someone else. You're puttin us on a bit aren't you.

 

[Aseyesee]

The opposite to legalism is licence, the unrestricted indulgence.

We need to balance the rigid following of rules with the need to live lifes that are holy and pure.

Is attendance at church on Sunday legalistic or an expression of devoution?
Is not having sex before getting married legalistic or purity?

Just how different are Christians in the work place from non christians, is it possible to tell at all?

Mostly ... only when they are legalistic.

 

[Tolworth John]

Depends on the reason and attitude.Could be, its just not the normal implications of being legalistic.A person is getting married so they would be dreaming of someone else. You're puttin us on a bit aren't you.

When is someone legalistic and when are they being faithfull andobedient?

You will have to clarify what you meant about geting married and dream of sex.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Romans 7:14 For we know that the Law is spiritual, but I am of flesh, sold into bondage to sin. 15 For what I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate. 16 But if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that the Law is good. 17 So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me. 18 For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not. 19 For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want. 20 But if I am doing the very thing I do not want, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.


21 I find then the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wants to do good. 22 For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man, 23 but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members. 24 Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death? 25 Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, on the one hand I myself with my mind am serving the law of God, but on the other, with my flesh the law of sin.

I love these verses. It shows that even Paul, who loved Christ so much and was very obedient struggled with his fleshly nature.

He was talking about a war inside, between his mind and his flesh.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Is obedience legalism?

I don't think so, but the charge of legalism is sometimes made by those who don't want to be obedient.

re dreaming of sex after one is married! Depends who one is dreaming of doesn't it, if it is your spouse that is ok, anyone else it is wrong.

Hope you don't mind me joining the conversation.

I think in all we do we need to remember two things. First the two most important commands Christ left us with. Christ specficially called these the two most important commands that He leaves us with; love the Lord God with all your heart, soul and mind and love your neighbor as yourself.

The second is that God is a God of the heart. The Holy Spirit with our spirit testifies that we are Christ's and it is in our hearts that Christ looks at our motivations and the 'why' we do the things we do.

Each person has to look deeply into their own hearts and take a good spiritual look in there and see what their own motivations are. We are given two huge commandments by Christ and to love that much, with that kind of love most of the time has to come from a heart motivated by love.

If a person is motivated by fear (although not totally bad if someone is a new Christian) always then they should be able to see if it is love for God, as Christ tells us or if it is fear.

God's Word says "perfect love casts out fear".

So much of it is really looking at ourselves closely. Not the person we would like to think we are, but looking at who and why we are really motivated.

I hope that makes sense.

 

[ToBeLoved]

You will have to clarify what you meant about geting married and dream of sex.

God's Word says that if you are lusting after a person in your heart that you have already committed adultery with them.

So, dreaming of someone else would be adultery in one's heart.