Led by the Spirit versus led by the Word. (the Bible)

[public hermit]

I agree, it shouldn't.

Also shared this video on the other thread where this came up. Might help.
This is a person who understands exactly what I am saying. (or vice versa)

5,966 views Jan 17, 2023
The essence of all good mentoring is asking brilliant questions that allow us to explore our relationship with God in a deeper way.SEE MORE Today we are asking the question, “If Jesus were looking out through my eyes how would He see my current situation?” Thinking through life using this question will align you with the mind of Christ and empower you to perceive all your life circumstances through a renewed lens. As always, thanks for listening!

Great witness.

I like what he says about alignment being an act of the will. We might not feel thankful but being thankful is an act of the will. And making that act aligns us with the Presence.

I hadn't thought about asking the Holy Spirit what He sees, but will try it.

If I'm in Christ, so are my circumstances. That is solid gold, right there.

 

[Saint Steven]

I hadn't thought about asking the Holy Spirit what He sees, but will try it.

Brad Jersak does an interesting presentation/activation on the subject of hearing from God.
Sorry, I'm loading you up with videos. - LOL

19,335 views Oct 27, 2013
Brad Jersak - Tuning in to the God Who Speaks - Part 1 ("Call, and I will answer, Really!") - February 8, 2013 Brad teaches that anyone can learn to hear God's voice through the simple practice of "listening prayer." Those who begin to listen will find out that God's love will heal wounded hearts and empower them to heal this broken world. Check out Brad 's book "Can You Hear Me? Tuning in to the God who Speaks" http://amzn.to/1aejQim to read more about how to hear God's voice. For the Kindle Edition of this book: http://amzn.to/18Vc9LK.

 

[Saint Steven]

If I'm in Christ, so are my circumstances. That is solid gold, right there.

Agreed.
One of my favorite Graham Cooke sayings is...
When we find ourselves in a circumstance, what is our stance?
Circum-stance. Easy to remember.

 

[ARBITER01]

Romans 8:14 NIV
For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God.

Let me define that better,....

Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.

Then a couple sentences later, we have the use of the word children,...

Rom 8:16 The Spirit himself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are children of God:

If you look those two words up in the Greek, you will see that they are correct with this particular translation (1885 Revised Version) whereas the NIV inserted children for sons, I guess being more gender inclusive where they didn't need to be.

The indirect point here by The Holy Spirit is that His leading requires spiritual maturity. You are not a child of GOD anymore when The Spirit's revelation knowledge inside you becomes second nature. Of course we will always need our bible throughout our walk with GOD, but it is The Spirit who will show you the multiple understandings in those passages, and that requires His revelation knowledge given to you inside.

 

[Saint Steven]

If you look those two words up in the Greek, you will see that they are correct with this particular translation (1885 Revised Version) whereas the NIV inserted children for sons, I guess being more gender inclusive where they didn't need to be.

Thanks for your informative post.

So, there are no daughters of God? - LOL

 

[Saint Steven]

The indirect point here by The Holy Spirit is that His leading requires spiritual maturity. You are not a child of GOD anymore when The Spirit's revelation knowledge inside you becomes second nature. Of course we will always need our bible throughout our walk with GOD, but it is The Spirit who will show you the multiple understandings in those passages, and that requires His revelation knowledge given to you inside.

That's a very interesting point. Thanks.
I'll give that more thought, and may the Spirit give me revelation of the truth. (for me)

I'm not sure about maturity being required. Certainly helps.
But I imagine a new convert could be VERY plugged in to the voice and direct leading of God.
Probably not the norm though, which helps your point.

Thanks again.

 

[ARBITER01]

So, there are no daughters of God? - LOL

Well actually,......

Each of us who are born again by the blood of Jesus have a renewed human spirit inside that is exactly like his. So,.... the use of the word "brethren" in the Greek is correct, not brothers and sisters.

I know that is odd to the world and it's thinking, but we are not of the world anymore, we are newly adopted sons of heaven.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Obviously, we want both.
But I made a statement in another topic that being led by the Spirit is superior to being led by the Word.

Let's discuss. (play nice kids) Thanks.

So, I wanted to flesh that out a bit. Here's the quote below. Post #60.
Source: What is a successful (good) creation for God?


Here's the background info that "led" to this statement which preceded this quote.
Since it was a bit off-topic, I wanted to create its own topic.

Begin quote:
"The difference between being led by the Spirit and being led by the Word. (Bible)
This is dangerous territory, and I'm likely to ruffle some feathers. WWJD?

I have wanted to address the issue of Christians feeling "led" to do something with a scriptural defense.
Actually considered this originally while reading the Screwtape Letters, C.S. Lewis. (the toast)

The 'thing" they are being led to do seems innocent to them and they can easily defend it, both rationally and biblically.
So... what could go wrong? (plenty)

The problem is that we never know enough of the behind-the-scenes activity to make either a correct rational, or biblical-based, decision.
And we don't need to know. God knows.

Both the serpent in the garden and the Devil tempting Jesus in the wilderness used the Word to deceive.
But the enemy is unable to use the Spirit in that way. Best he can do is counterfeit it.
A fully developed spiritual discernment is the only antidote. IMHO"
- End quote
(add the quoted bit above to cap the statement)

A couple of scriptures to consider. (the Word) I know, I know...
Notice that being led by the Spirit (not the Word) produces the fruit of the Spirit.
Why does it come from the Spirit and not the Word?

Romans 8:14 NIV
For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God.

Galatians 5:16-18, 22-23 NIV
So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh.
17 For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh.
They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever you want.
18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. ... [19-21]
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

1 Corinthians 2:13 NIV
This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words
taught by the Spirit, explaining spiritual realities with Spirit-taught words.

Matthew 4:1 NIV
Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil.

Acts 8:29, 39-40 NIV
29 The Spirit told Philip, “Go to that chariot and stay near it.” ...
39 When they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord suddenly took Philip away,
and the eunuch did not see him again, but went on his way rejoicing.
40 Philip, however, appeared at Azotus and traveled about,
preaching the gospel in all the towns until he reached Caesarea.

The Spirit can lead you to places and people. If you believe the Holy Spirit is leading you into a new teaching, test it by scripture as to refute it.

 

[Soyeong]

Obviously, we want both.
But I made a statement in another topic that being led by the Spirit is superior to being led by the Word.

Let's discuss. (play nice kids) Thanks.

So, I wanted to flesh that out a bit. Here's the quote below. Post #60.
Source: What is a successful (good) creation for God?


Here's the background info that "led" to this statement which preceded this quote.
Since it was a bit off-topic, I wanted to create its own topic.

Begin quote:
"The difference between being led by the Spirit and being led by the Word. (Bible)
This is dangerous territory, and I'm likely to ruffle some feathers. WWJD?

I have wanted to address the issue of Christians feeling "led" to do something with a scriptural defense.
Actually considered this originally while reading the Screwtape Letters, C.S. Lewis. (the toast)

The 'thing" they are being led to do seems innocent to them and they can easily defend it, both rationally and biblically.
So... what could go wrong? (plenty)

The problem is that we never know enough of the behind-the-scenes activity to make either a correct rational, or biblical-based, decision.
And we don't need to know. God knows.

Both the serpent in the garden and the Devil tempting Jesus in the wilderness used the Word to deceive.
But the enemy is unable to use the Spirit in that way. Best he can do is counterfeit it.
A fully developed spiritual discernment is the only antidote. IMHO"
- End quote
(add the quoted bit above to cap the statement)

A couple of scriptures to consider. (the Word) I know, I know...
Notice that being led by the Spirit (not the Word) produces the fruit of the Spirit.
Why does it come from the Spirit and not the Word?

Romans 8:14 NIV
For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God.

Galatians 5:16-18, 22-23 NIV
So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh.
17 For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh.
They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever you want.
18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. ... [19-21]
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

1 Corinthians 2:13 NIV
This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words
taught by the Spirit, explaining spiritual realities with Spirit-taught words.

Matthew 4:1 NIV
Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil.

Acts 8:29, 39-40 NIV
29 The Spirit told Philip, “Go to that chariot and stay near it.” ...
39 When they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord suddenly took Philip away,
and the eunuch did not see him again, but went on his way rejoicing.
40 Philip, however, appeared at Azotus and traveled about,
preaching the gospel in all the towns until he reached Caesarea.

In Acts 5:32, the Spirit has been given to those who obey God. In Ezekiel 36:26-27, the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey God's law, in John 16:13, the Spirit has the role of leading us in truth, and in Psalms 119:142, God's law is truth. In John 16:8, the Spirit has the role of convicting us of sin, and in 1 John 3:4, sin is the transgression of God's law. In Romans 8:4-7, those who walk in the Spirit are contrasted with those who have minds set on the flesh, who are enemies of God, who refuse to submit to God's law. Galatians 5:19-23, everything listed as works of the flesh that are against the Spirit are also against God's law while all of the fruits of the Spirit are aspects of God's nature that are in accordance with it. In Romans 2:25-29, the way to recognize that a Gentile has a circumcised heart is by observing their obedience to God's law, which is the same way to tell for a Jew (Deuteronomy 30:6), and circumcision of the heart is a matter of the Spirit, which is in contrast with Acts 7:51-53, where those who have uncircumcised hearts resist the Spirit and do not obey God's law. So being led by the Spirit is not being led to do something other than obey God's word.

The Bible often uses the same words to describe aspects of the nature of God as it does to describe aspects of the nature of God's law, such as with it being holy, righteous, and good (Romans 7:12), and it could not accurately be described as such if it were not God's instructions for how to express those aspects of God's nature. Aspects of God's nature are the fruits of the Spirit that the Spirit leads us to express in accordance with God's word. The issue is that God's law can be obeyed while neglecting to express aspects of God's nature that it was intended to teach us how to express. For example, in Matthew 23:23, Jesus said that tithing was something that they ought to be doing while not neglecting weightier matters of the law of justice, mercy, and faithfulness. So it is possible for God's word to be incorrectly obeyed in a manner that is not in accordance with the leading of the Spirit.

 

[Saint Steven]

Well actually,......

Each of us who are born again by the blood of Jesus have a renewed human spirit inside that is exactly like his. So,.... the use of the word "brethren" in the Greek is correct, not brothers and sisters.

I know that is odd to the world and it's thinking, but we are not of the world anymore, we are newly adopted sons of heaven.

Well... I think there is a time to leave the King James 1611 AD court language behind and speak a language that we can understand today.

Are you so KJO that you refuse to include females in God's redemption plan?

I always thought the "brethern also included the sistern". - LOL
But maybe that doesn't hold water with you?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

This is quite simple, if it is not in the Word of God, it is not led by God’s Spirit.

Isaiah 8:20 To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

God’s Word is the light to our path Psalms 119:105 -How everything must be tested.

I think many people underestimate the power of the “other spirit” who led astray 1/3 of the angles in heaven. Our only defense is by the Word of God and what Jesus used when He was tempted. Matthew 4:10

 

[Saint Steven]

The Spirit can lead you to places and people. If you believe the Holy Spirit is leading you into a new teaching, test it by scripture as to refute it.

Good. That's what I am talking about.
I would say "test" rather than refute. But I knew what you meant. (I hope)

Scripture is a good place to start with weighing a prompting from the Spirit.
What are some other tests to use?

 

[Saint Steven]

This is quite simple, if it is not in the Word of God, it is not led by God’s Spirit.

Isaiah 8:20 To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

God’s Word is the light to our path Psalms 119:105

Where everything must be tested by.

I think many people underestimate the power of the “other Spirit” who led astray 1/3 of the angles in heaven. Our only defense is by the Word of God and what Jesus used when He was tempted. Matthew 4:10

Thanks for weighing in on this.
But I prefer some milk on my Rice Krispies. (Snap, Krackle, and Pop)

Do you not recognize or trust the Spirit to direct you? Has God never given you a nudge? Did he speak to you? (outside of the Bible)

 

[Saint Steven]

In Acts 5:32, the Spirit has been given to those who obey God. In Ezekiel 36:26-27, the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey God's law, in John 16:13, the Spirit has the role of leading us in truth, and in Psalms 119:142, God's law is truth. In John 16:8, the Spirit has the role of convicting us of sin, and in 1 John 3:4, sin is the transgression of God's law. In Romans 8:4-7, those who walk in the Spirit are contrasted with those who have minds set on the flesh, who are enemies of God, who refuse to submit to God's law. Galatians 5:19-23, everything listed as works of the flesh that are against the Spirit are also against God's law while all of the fruits of the Spirit are aspects of God's nature that are in accordance with it. In Romans 2:25-29, the way to recognize that a Gentile has a circumcised heart is by observing their obedience to God's law, which is the same way to tell for a Jew (Deuteronomy 30:6), and circumcision of the heart is a matter of the Spirit, which is in contrast with Acts 7:51-53, where those who have uncircumcised hearts resist the Spirit and do not obey God's law. So being led by the Spirit is not being led to do something other than obey God's word.

The Bible often uses the same words to describe aspects of the nature of God as it does to describe aspects of the nature of God's law, such as with it being holy, righteous, and good (Romans 7:12), and it could not accurately be described as such if it were not God's instructions for how to express those aspects of God's nature. Aspects of God's nature are the fruits of the Spirit that the Spirit leads us to express in accordance with God's word. The issue is that God's law can be obeyed while neglecting to express aspects of God's nature that it was intended to teach us how to express. For example, in Matthew 23:23, Jesus said that tithing was something that they ought to be doing while not neglecting weightier matters of the law of justice, mercy, and faithfulness. So it is possible for God's word to be incorrectly obeyed in a manner that is not in accordance with the leading of the Spirit.

Thanks for joining the discussion. What do you make of this?

Galatians 5:18 NIV
But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Thanks for weighing in on this.
But I prefer some milk on my Rice Krispies. (Snap, Krackle, and Pop)

Do you not recognize or trust the Spirit to direct you? Has God never given you a nudge? Did he speak to you? (outside of the Bible)

The Spirit and God’s Word are in harmony, not conflict - of course the Spirit talks to us- it convicts us of sin John 16:8 and leads us to all Truth John 14:15-28 which is God’s Word and His commandments John 17:17 Psalms 119:142 Psalms 119:151 and the Word warns us if we keep not His commandments there is no Truth in us 1 John 2:3-6 so therefore are not led by His Spirit which is given when we obey. Acts 5:32 Which is why we are warned repeatedly in scripture- ”TODAY” if you hear His voice - do not harden your heart (to disobedience and rebellion) . Psalms 95:7-8, Hebrews 3:15, Hebrews 4:6-7. We might not get that chance tomorrow as we know not what tomorrow brings and can grieve away His sweet Spirit by hardening our hearts where one no longer hears God’s voice. There is a solution to this problem, but many want to walk their own path.

 

[Saint Steven]

The Spirit and God’s Word are in harmony, not conflict - of course the Spirit talks to us- it convicts us of sin John 16:8 and leads us to all Truth John 14:15-28 which is God’s Word and His commandments John 17:17 Psalms 119:142 Psalms 119:151 and the Word warns us if we keep not His commandments there is no Truth in us 1 John 2:3-6 so therefore are not led by His Spirit which is given when we obey. Acts 5:32 Which is why we are warned repeatedly in scripture- ”TODAY” if you hear His voice - do not harden your heart (to disobedience and rebellion) . Psalms 95:7-8, Hebrews 3:15, Hebrews 4:6-7. We might not get that chance tomorrow as we know not what tomorrow brings and can grieve away His sweet Spirit by hardening our hearts where one no longer hears God’s voice. There is a solution to this problem, but many want to want their own path.

Would you go so far as to say that those who do not keep (observe/remember) a Saturday Sabbath (Friday sundown to Saturday sundown) cannot hear God's voice?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Would you go so far as to say that those who do not keep (observe/remember) a Saturday Sabbath (Friday sundown to Saturday sundown) cannot hear God's voice?

I think God requires full obedience to Him- if we break one commandment we break them all James 2:10-12. It’s not about one commandment, it’s about being in submission to the will of God. God‘s will is that we obey out of love- His law in our hearts and minds Psalms 40:8, Hebrews 8:10. The Sabbath is the one commandment that deals with our time, so I do not think it was chiseled out of His law that God wrote with His own finger and said Remember. Exodus 31:18, Exodus 32:16. The warning in Hebrews 4:6 Hebrews 4:11 is about disobedience to the Sabbath Ezekiel 20:13, Ezekiel 20:21 and we are told not to take the same path of disobedience.


For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. 1 John 5:3.

 

[ARBITER01]

Well... I think there is a time to leave the King James 1611 AD court language behind and speak a language that we can understand today.

Are you so KJO that you refuse to include females in God's redemption plan?

I always thought the "brethern also included the sistern". - LOL
But maybe that doesn't hold water with you?

Was you trying to be funny while I'm being serious?

If you don't understand what I'm saying, it easier to say so instead of trying to flame me. I would try to explain it again to you but you probably just need to re-read it and take it to The Holy Spirit. The Greek only has brethren in it, not sisters, so figure it out.

Btw, that is not the kjv, that is the revised version of 1885. Some translations of old are way more exact than the trash of nowadays.

 

[Saint Steven]

I think God requires full obedience to Him- if we break one commandment we break them all James 2:10-12. It’s not about one commandment, it’s about being in submission to the will of God. God‘s will is that we obey out of love- His law in our hearts and minds Psalms 40:8, Hebrews 8:10. The Sabbath is the one commandment that deals with our time, so I do not think it was chiseled out of His law that God wrote with His own finger and said Remember. Exodus 31:18, Exodus 32:16. The warning in Hebrews 4:6 Hebrews 4:11 is about disobedience to the Sabbath Ezekiel 20:13, Ezekiel 20:21 and we are told not to take the same path of disobedience.


For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. 1 John 5:3.

Thanks for your thoughtful and complete replies.
I don't want to turn this thread into a debate about the law. But I'm glad you are here.
I want the full spectrum of believers to weigh in on this. Where are the Catholics? like @chevyontheriver

Here's what I need to hear from you, if you have any experience with this.
You mentioned hearing from God via a conviction of sin.
Do you have testimony of more individualized communication to you from the Holy Spirit?
Meaning, outside of reading the Bible, or remembering what it says.

What about your conversion experience, when you really knew nothing of the Bible? (assuming)

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Thanks for your thoughtful and complete replies.
I don't want to turn this thread into a debate about the law. But I'm glad you are here.
I want the full spectrum of believers to weigh in on this. Where are the Catholics? like @chevyontheriver

Here's what I need to hear from you, if you have any experience with this.
You mentioned hearing from God via a conviction of sin.
Do you have testimony of more individualized communication to you from the Holy Spirit?
Meaning, outside of reading the Bible, or remembering what it says.

What about your conversion experience, when you really knew nothing of the Bible? (assuming)

Yes, I do have a personally testimony about being convicted for Sabbath-keeping. Not sure if this is the place for it- but I am happy to share if you don’t think it will lead us off topic.