Least Vaccinated States Lead Spike in Children’s Cases -- 30,000 went to hospital in 1 month

[dogs4thewin]

Vaccinations for people under 18 has just recently been available so a lot of people are still skeptical about giving their children the vaccine since it’s still in the very early experimental stage.

Mask mandates have seemed to cause slightly more violelence than no mandates. This is from what I have read.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Any of y'all vaccinated? We had a friend that visits us often that got Covid last year (before any of us vaccinated), but we were always meeting outdoors or wearing masks if going indoors, and we didn't get it from her even though she visited us around that time. Also, a neighbor's kid in high school got it recently, but she is vaccinated. So far, that school is still continuing without shutting down, and they have a everyone-always-wears-mask rule in that school.

No we’re not vaccinated. I don’t like the idea of having to sign a waiver releasing the people administering it from any liability. That doesn’t seem very reassuring to me. So I’m not ready to trust the safety of the vaccine. I couldn’t believe that the school is not requiring the kids to wear a mask where I live. I’ve heard rumors that it’s illegal for them to make it a requirement which doesn’t make any sense to me since it was enforced by law last year.

 

[dogs4thewin]

No we’re not vaccinated. I don’t like the idea of having to sign a waiver releasing the people administering it from any liability. That doesn’t seem very reassuring to me. So I’m not ready to trust the safety of the vaccine. I couldn’t believe that the school is not requiring the kids to wear a mask where I live. I’ve heard rumors that it’s illegal for them to make it a requirement which doesn’t make any sense to me since it was enforced by law last year.

Laws change I am pretty sure that several months back I saw that your governor would impose fines on public places that required masks. Not really a law, but who would want to pay those fines?

 

[Halbhh]

since it’s still in the very early experimental stage.

At 5.8 billion doses given....we have entered a new situation really.

For the 2 main U.S. vaccines, Pfizer and Moderna, they had trials back in 2020, so they were in the 'experimental' or 'early' stage back in fall to December 2020.

And Pfizer finished already the full FDA review (review of every individual's reactions in the test groups) so now Pfizer has full FDA approval.

That is not any longer 'early'. Early might be back when it was only 30,000 people in the trials, or when the vaccine got the initial authorization and began to go out in bigger numbers, almost 10 months ago.

So, it's been over a year for those vaccine trial participants, and they are still monitored. (Fact check: It is standard practice for vaccine safety monitoring to continue after approval)

Meanwhile, Covid infection itself does a real, actual takeover of cells, is an invasive, dangerous attack on the body, and even severely dangerous for many people, including very many under age 60.

Actual Covid can attack the heart, the brain, and other parts of the body, causing blood clots and more. It's a horrific thing when those happen.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Laws change I am pretty sure that several months back I saw that your governor would impose fines on public places that required masks. Not really a law, but who would want to pay those fines?

Yes I believe that is the problem and I think parents should be able to sue the state for that mistake if their child contracts COVID from school.

messages/attachments/95fb59637665be085db7295e2ccb1859/Bilingual_Student_Contact_Letter.pdf

The schools are openly admitting that our children have been in close contact with a person who has been infected. This is an email I receive on average about twice a week since school started.

 

[BNR32FAN]

At 5.8 billion doses given....we have entered a new situation really.

There aren’t 5.8 billion children under the age of 18 in the world. Your referring to adults when I’m referring to children.

 

[Halbhh]

There aren’t 5.8 billion children under the age of 18 in the world. Your referring to adults when I’m referring to children.

I'm trying to find out how many under 18 and when, because there were several announcements. Here is one:
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/22/pfi...for-kids-ages-12-to-15-is-fully-enrolled.html

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

Schools here in Texas started mid August. Since school has started I’m receiving 2 emails a week saying my child has been in close contact with a person who has tested positive for COVID. My daughter caught it the week before last and I caught it from her last week.

Everyone (almost) by now has been in contact with someone who had it. There was really little way to avoid much in schools. Are you and your daughter ok?

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

It is when they start infecting friends and family - or on topic for the thread, their children - and clogging up the medical system with preventable serious cases. Part of being accepted in public is acceptable behavior.

Someone infected our kids - and also us - when we were all younger with a few of the typical suspects.

It's what happens in a society, at times. This person foolishly ignored symptoms and took her kid around other kids.

New study discussed in the The Atlantic, of all places. Only about half the "Covid cases" in the hospital are actually hospitalized because of Covid.

"Instead of meticulously looking at why a few hundred patients were admitted to a pair of hospitals, they analyzed the electronic records for nearly 50,000 COVID hospital admissions at the more than 100 VA hospitals across the country. Then they checked to see whether each patient required supplemental oxygen or had a blood oxygen level below 94 percent. (The latter criterion is based on the National Institutes of Health definition of “severe COVID.”) If either of these conditions was met, the authors classified that patient as having moderate to severe disease; otherwise, the case was considered mild or asymptomatic.

The study found that from March 2020 through early January 2021—before vaccination was widespread, and before the Delta variant had arrived—the proportion of patients with mild or asymptomatic disease was 36 percent. From mid-January through the end of June 2021, however, that number rose to 48 percent. In other words, the study suggests that roughly half of all the hospitalized patients showing up on COVID-data dashboards in 2021 may have been admitted for another reason entirely, or had only a mild presentation of disease."

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/...italization-numbers-can-be-misleading/620062/

 

[KCfromNC]

Someone infected our kids - and also us - when we were all younger with a few of the typical suspects.

It's what happens in a society, at times. This person foolishly ignored symptoms and took her kid around other kids.

People also foolishly refuse to get the vaccine. And other people are working to limit their interactions with that foolishness.

New study discussed in the The Atlantic, of all places. Only about half the "Covid cases" in the hospital are actually hospitalized because of Covid.


"Instead of meticulously looking at why a few hundred patients were admitted to a pair of hospitals, they analyzed the electronic records for nearly 50,000 COVID hospital admissions at the more than 100 VA hospitals across the country. Then they checked to see whether each patient required supplemental oxygen or had a blood oxygen level below 94 percent. (The latter criterion is based on the National Institutes of Health definition of “severe COVID.”) If either of these conditions was met, the authors classified that patient as having moderate to severe disease; otherwise, the case was considered mild or asymptomatic.

The study found that from March 2020 through early January 2021—before vaccination was widespread, and before the Delta variant had arrived—the proportion of patients with mild or asymptomatic disease was 36 percent. From mid-January through the end of June 2021, however, that number rose to 48 percent. In other words, the study suggests that roughly half of all the hospitalized patients showing up on COVID-data dashboards in 2021 may have been admitted for another reason entirely, or had only a mild presentation of disease."

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/...italization-numbers-can-be-misleading/620062/

I notice how your summary says confidently asserts "are" but the actual article suggest that "may have been". Also, not sure of the relevance to a spike in covid cases in children. Seems more like an attempt at an off topic distraction than anything.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Everyone (almost) by now has been in contact with someone who had it. There was really little way to avoid much in schools. Are you and your daughter ok?

Yeah it’s been mild. My daughter has already recovered and went back to school today.

 

[Halbhh]

Someone infected our kids - and also us - when we were all younger with a few of the typical suspects.

It's what happens in a society, at times. This person foolishly ignored symptoms and took her kid around other kids.

New study discussed in the The Atlantic, of all places. Only about half the "Covid cases" in the hospital are actually hospitalized because of Covid.

"Instead of meticulously looking at why a few hundred patients were admitted to a pair of hospitals, they analyzed the electronic records for nearly 50,000 COVID hospital admissions at the more than 100 VA hospitals across the country. Then they checked to see whether each patient required supplemental oxygen or had a blood oxygen level below 94 percent. (The latter criterion is based on the National Institutes of Health definition of “severe COVID.”) If either of these conditions was met, the authors classified that patient as having moderate to severe disease; otherwise, the case was considered mild or asymptomatic.

The study found that from March 2020 through early January 2021—before vaccination was widespread, and before the Delta variant had arrived—the proportion of patients with mild or asymptomatic disease was 36 percent. From mid-January through the end of June 2021, however, that number rose to 48 percent. In other words, the study suggests that roughly half of all the hospitalized patients showing up on COVID-data dashboards in 2021 may have been admitted for another reason entirely, or had only a mild presentation of disease."

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/...italization-numbers-can-be-misleading/620062/

I was reading in that Atlantic article yesterday, and it's useful to be aware of the somewhat obvious in hindsight fact that many cases will be hospitalized for 'observation' without having a severe case. And it's encouraging, in that it means they don't take up those crucial ICU capacities at those hospitals. The ICU beds the really sick need.

And which have lately been getting very full in many states.

As I was pointing out the other day, it's too soon to really know if the many cases in August will still have a very low death rate in under-18s.

But let me search up a newer information, and I'll post it just below.....

 

[Halbhh]

Here are some new research findings:

"...includes hospitalization data from 99 counties in 14 states. ...
...
For the week ending in Aug. 14, hospitalization rates among children four and younger were at 1.9 per 100,000, almost 10 times higher than the rates of late June.
...
Among children and adolescents hospitalized between June 20 and July 31, the study found 23.2% ended up in the ICU, while 9.8% required ventilation and 1.8% died. These rates, as a share of all adolescents hospitalized, were around the same as they were before the delta variant spread.
...
....in 49 states and Washington, D.C. They found that, since July when the delta variant became dominant in the United States, Covid-19 cases, ED visits, and hospital admissions among children 17 and younger have risen much more sharply in less-vaccinated states.
...
What 2 new CDC studies reveal about the delta variant in kids

That's enough to be concerning because even though not looking more severe in under 18s, Delta spreads much more easily, so that the total number infected can rise quickly.

So, mask mandates in schools can save lives, and more than just a few. And vaccination, obviously.

@RestoreTheJoy
@KCfromNC

 

[dogs4thewin]

Yes I believe that is the problem and I think parents should be able to sue the state for that mistake if their child contracts COVID from school.

messages/attachments/95fb59637665be085db7295e2ccb1859/Bilingual_Student_Contact_Letter.pdf

The schools are openly admitting that our children have been in close contact with a person who has been infected. This is an email I receive on average about twice a week since school started.

Better than not telling people. Remember if the mandate only applies to public places you are welcome to go private. You would probably have better luck with that than suing the state.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

People also foolishly refuse to get the vaccine. And other people are working to limit their interactions with that foolishness.



I notice how your summary says confidently asserts "are" but the actual article suggest that "may have been". Also, not sure of the relevance to a spike in covid cases in children. Seems more like an attempt at an off topic distraction than anything.

One does not become ill because he is exposed to an "unvaccinated person". He becomes ill because he is exposed to the virus itself, which can come from ANYONE whether or not said person got the jab. Get that straight first.

Secondly - that study came out two days ago and is still undergoing peer review, hence the weasel language, which is always used. There will be more confirming it.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

Yeah it’s been mild. My daughter has already recovered and went back to school today.

Glad to hear it!

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

I was reading in that Atlantic article yesterday, and it's useful to be aware of the somewhat obvious in hindsight fact that many cases will be hospitalized for 'observation' without having a severe case. And it's encouraging, in that it means they don't take up those crucial ICU capacities at those hospitals. The ICU beds the really sick need.

And which have lately been getting very full in many states.

As I was pointing out the other day, it's too soon to really know if the many cases in August will still have a very low death rate in under-18s.

But let me search up a newer information, and I'll post it just below.....

I agree that observation cases should not displace truly ill cases, of course. They need to figure that out.

 

[Halbhh]

I agree that observation cases should not displace truly ill cases, of course. They need to figure that out.

I'm sure they do quite easily. For instance, they can read the current blood oxygen level as a number on a screen, so they have a lot of tools.

More interesting is the next post I made above (post #53) -- what is happening to the young, from more recently published findings.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Vaccinations for people under 18 has just recently been available so a lot of people are still skeptical about giving their children the vaccine since it’s still in the very early experimental stage.

The one that's approved for younger people (Pfizer) is using a technology that's not as "new" as some people think it is.

There have been mRNA clinical trials (for things ranging from other viral pathogens like SARS and Zika to other realms like immunotherapy for things like prostate cancer and certain forms of non-small cell lung cancer) going back to 2009.

Some of which even involved some younger participants.

Even if you go with VAERS data (which is flawed for a number of reasons, as it's a 100% user-submitted database that doesn't have rigorous validations for the reported adverse effects), the number of reports of adverse reactions reported for 12-17 age group was 9,246.

19% of the nearly 80 million people under 18yo (or 15 million kids) have received the vaccine.

Even if 100% of the VAERS reports were legit (and we know they're not), that would still mean that only 0.05% of the child recipients experienced any sort of noteworthy adverse effect.

But, it's likely far lower than that 0.05% number as we know VAERS isn't the most reliable.

And the overwhelming majority of those are mild cases of myocarditis that resolved on their own without the need for hospitalization.

As of a few days ago (with regards to covid itself)

The number of cases:

The number of hospitalizations (per 100,000)

10.6 per 100,000 in a group that makes up 53 million. 5,600 hospitalizations

The 0-4 group is 20 million. 18.4 per 100,000 equates to 3,680 hospitalizations.


So in terms of the risk tradeoff, a kid's chances of being hospitalized with covid is still every bit as high as a kid's risk of getting a non-critical, non-contagious, temporary case of myocarditis (that doesn't even require hospitalization).

 

[ThatRobGuy]

No, but they CAN say that they don't trust some politicized, rushed brand new technology when the messaging is all over the place and people have died without and with the injection. And many are saying that; others are not. Leave people alone.

Again (not sure how many times I've had to explain this on CF...probably at least two dozen times now to various people). mRNA isn't a "new/rushed" technology. Clinical trials (in phase II and III) have leveraged that technology in larger trials going back to 2009. And viral vector technology (like J&J and AstraZeneca) have been around since the disco era.

The "leave people alone" mentality doesn't fly here.

A) nobody can claim to know who's going to end up carrying a high enough viral load to cause externalities. It'd be like saying "these drunk driving laws are wrong, some people are staggering drunk after 3 beers, others are mostly sober".

B) while it's true that "some vaccinated and unvaccinated have both died", saying that implies that the risk is equally likely between the two groups. It's not even close.

Here's my state for the last 9 months:

Yes "both vaccinated and unvaccinated have been hospitalized and died"...but the odds of that happening between the two groups aren't even in the same ball park.

I replied back to you with this info in a different thread a few days back
Florida (Tampa) hospitals won't mandate vaccine for workers


(showing that has time goes on, hospitalizations among unvaccinated are increasing at a rate that's 12 time faster than among vaccinated, and deaths among unvaccinated are increasing at a rate that's 20 times faster than among vaccinated)


Saying "the vaccinated have still died from covid too" (as a means to undermine the credibility of the vaccine) is basically on par with the smokers who don't want to quit, and bring up the fact that "non-smokers can get lung cancer too!" as justification for not changing their behavior or acting as if their decision to keep smoking "isn't as bad as everyone says it is".... when everyone knows full well that smoking makes that outcome more likely.