• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.
  3. Please note there is a new rule regarding the posting of videos. It reads, "Post a summary of the videos you post . An exception can be made for music videos.". Unless you are simply sharing music, please post a summary, or the gist, of the video you wish to share.
  4. There have been some changes in the Life Stages section involving the following forums: Roaring 20s, Terrific Thirties, Fabulous Forties, and Golden Eagles. They are changed to Gen Z, Millennials, Gen X, and Golden Eagles will have a slight change.
  5. CF Staff, Angels and Ambassadors; ask that you join us in praying for the world in this difficult time, asking our Holy Father to stop the spread of the virus, and for healing of all affected.
  6. We are no longer allowing posts or threads that deny the existence of Covid-19. Members have lost loved ones to this virus and are grieving. As a Christian site, we do not need to add to the pain of the loss by allowing posts that deny the existence of the virus that killed their loved one. Future post denying the Covid-19 existence, calling it a hoax, will be addressed via the warning system.

Learn not the way of the heathen....

Discussion in 'Exposition & Bible Study' started by orbiter, Jun 19, 2021.

  1. orbiter

    orbiter Active Member


    The “rudiments” of the world:

    “Rudiments” = Greek “stoicheion” = “orderly, fundamental principles, elements”.

    The “tradition” of men:

    “Tradition” = “transmission”.

    Colossians 2:8 KJV
    (8) Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

    The “rudiments” of the world are the fundamental principles of the nations that are put into handwritings/documents such as CONSTITUTIONS and laws that govern themselves. They judge others using their laws, statutes, etc. They fight wars over their differences.

    Constitution = a body of “fundamental principles” (the RUDIMENTS/elements of the world) or established precedents according to which a state or other organization is acknowledged to be governed.

    These handwritings/documents of men are transmitted down to future generations. They move not as they are established by the “founding fathers”…earthly men… and are passed down through generations. They are the "traditions"...transmissions...of men.

    The nations of the world do not follow after our God and His government and so come up with their own system of government….their handwritings…that they serve and “worship” instead of God.

    We as His people are not to “learn” the way of the nations that have their constitutions, bylaws and various other documents that rule over them. We are not to copy them and place them in our churches where we worship God. It is an "image"...a graven image.

    The “customs”….that is, the ORDINANCES… of the people are emptiness and are dead works of “wood” that burn up. A tree cut out of a forest is dead and will burn easily.

    They are highly exalted documents (in the heavens so to speak) that they subject themselves to.

    They are the “principalities and powers” in high places and they are “dismayed”…meaning “to PROSTRATE”…at them. They highly revere their handwritings and bow themselves to them as they serve and worship them instead of God and His government.

    Jeremiah 10:1-5 KJV
    (1) Hear ye the word which the LORD speaketh unto you, O house of Israel:
    (2) Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.

    Again, the “customs”….the ordinances...their handwriting of ordinances…of the people are vain (emptiness).

    The “people” = any congregation of people (including churches that have their “handwritings”: statements of faith, church constitutions, creeds, etc). They are “dead” works that burn us up with the using of them.

    (3) For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.

    The “customs of the people”...the ordinances of... are not to be found in any church assembly….but yet, we find them in EVERY gathering supposedly in His name. We find statements of faith, constitutions, creeds, bylaws, etc. These handwritings are copied in structure and language like the world's constitutions, etc.

    They …their handwritings….are highly regarded…are precious to them. They are seen as “wise” for doing them.

    They fasten it with “nails” …words as preached by their preachers. Their documents are supported by their words and move not out of their churches ….ever….where it should not be found. They have to be continually reinforced/supported through their words...their teachings ...or they will totter over. They appear “righteous”…upright…but they are dead works. They do nothing for us. They are like wood and hay that burn up easily. The elements burn.

    (4) They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.
    (5) They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good.

    We find this language (goads, nails) in Ecclesiastes of the true Preacher. They are seen as “wise” to keep….acceptable words in their estimation. The words that support them are as goads and as nails fastened…..

    Ecclesiastes 12:10-11 KJV
    (10) The preacher sought to find out acceptable words: and that which was written was upright, even words of truth.
    (11) The words of the wise are as goads, and as nails fastened by the masters of assemblies, which are given from one shepherd.

    The handwriting of “ordinances” (Greek: DOGMAS) are against us and are contrary to us. “Dogma” = “what one thinks/believes is true or correct”.

    How many “Statements of faith”…handwritings ….start with those very words : “WE BELIEVE”? About all of them do.

    Then follows a list of “dogmas” of what they think/believe is true and correct and are expected to voluntarily and solemnly serve and worship them.

    Colossians 2: KJV
    (13) And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
    (14) Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

    The handwritings of men….such as their statements of faith or church constitutions ….are highly regarded and served/worshipped. They are the “principalities and powers” that rule over their churches as they serve and worship them. They are placed in “high places”…in the heavens so-to-speak.

    (15) And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

    Why as living in the world are we subject to “ordinances”….church constitutions, statements of faith, creeds, dogmas, etc?

    These handwritings of men are patterned after the world’s handwritings and are found in about every church gathering.

    Learn not the way of the nations of the world. Do not copy the structures and language of their documents with our own and place them in the church alongside our worship of God. We our to submit ourselves to God and His government instead of man's government that he has written down and placed in his church gathering. It is a "graven image".

    Colossians 2:20-23 KJV
    (20) Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
    (21) (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
    (22) Which all are to perish with the using) after the commandments and doctrines of men?
    (23) Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.

    These things have a show of wisdom in will worship and humility. We are seen as wise to keep them …but they do nothing to save our mortal flesh as all perish with the using up of them.

    The elements “burn” as we perish with the keeping of the commandments and doctrines of men that are placed highly up in their churches and are contained in handwritings of ordinances (church constitutions, etc.)

    Why be subject to ordinances …that are patterned after the “rudiments of the world”….the fundamental principles that are contained in handwritings (constitutions)?

    Many church constitutions have this kind of language in their preambles:

    …we establish the following articles to which we voluntarily submit…”
    “….we declare and establish this constitution to which we voluntarily submit ourselves…
    “….do ordain and establish this church constitution, to which we voluntarily and solemnly submit ourselves…”

    Again, why be subject to these handwritings that are patterned after the world’s ….after the “rudiments of the world”?

    Men …fleshly-minded church scribes…have trespassed into the Scriptures and have “cut” out of the Scriptures their own rules and regulations…putting them down in their own handwritings for their congregations to serve and worship.

    They have intruded into those things which they thought they “saw” and put them into their own fabrications…their own handwritings.

    Then they use them to judge others with. Let no man judge you according to his handwritings of dogmas.

    Colossians 2: KJV
    (16) Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

    These things are a “SHADOW” of things to come. Their handwritings of church dogmas are an “image”…a shadow. Don't be beguiled of eternal life by the "voluntary"...solemn and voluntary keeping of their handwritings of words...of "angels"...of messengers.

    (17) Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
    (18) Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,

    The fleshly-minded church scribes and their handwritings of commandments and doctrines were written without the mind of Christ. If they had the mind of Christ, they would not have come up with their handwritings.

    (19) And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God.
    (20) Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
    (21) (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
    (22) Which all are to perish with the using) after the commandments and doctrines of men?
    (23) Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.

    They worship and serve the "creature"...the ordinance...the fabrication...more than the Creator.

    Romans 1:25 KJV
    (25) Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

    Matthew 15:8-9 KJV
    (8) This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
    (9) But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

    We are not to have other “gods”…other Elohim (judges)….before (or beside) Him. These handwritings are "other gods" in the sense that they are being used to judge others with. We have only One Judge….our God who is in Heaven...whom we are to submit to.

    Exodus 20:1-6 KJV
    (1) And God spake all these words, saying,
    (2) I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
    (3) Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

    The “graven image” is the handwriting of ordinances put into the church that many serve and worship. “Image” = “shadow”. Their handwritings are “shadows” containing external commandments that are “shadows of things to come”. They are made in the form of man....the external world's handwritings (constitutions, etc) that they have made for themselves to worship.

    (4) Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:

    We are not to bow down ourselves to them nor serve them…the handwritings of the church scribes ... their “graven images” they have made for themselves.

    (5) Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

    We are to keep God’s commandments only and not the handwriting of the commandments and doctrines of men.

    (6) And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

    These principalities and powers…the handwritings of men…are exalted by men. They are in the “high places”…in the “heavens” so to speak.

    The “sun” in the heavens rules over the day….the moon “rules” over the night…and the stars do also. This speaks of GOVERNMENT…contained in the handwritings of constitutions, bylaws, statutes of the nations.

    We are not to go and desire to put like-documents in our churches where we worship God also.

    God has divided these things unto all nations under the whole heaven. But we are to keep His commandments and His statutes and not invent our own.

    Deuteronomy 4:19 KJV
    (19) And lest thou lift up thine eyes unto heaven, and when thou seest the sun, and the moon, and the stars, even all the host of heaven, shouldest be driven to worship them, and serve them, which the LORD thy God hath divided unto all nations under the whole heaven.

    to be continued...
    We teamed up with Faith Counseling. Can they help you today?
  2. orbiter

    orbiter Active Member


    Our God is Judge. There is only One Judge.

    “ Yahweh” (I am/exists) is our Judge (God) and our Lawgiver and our King. Yahweh is Judge and He is the Living One….and not a church handwriting that has no life. Their handwritings are not our "judge".

    Isaiah 33:22 KJV
    (22) For the LORD is our judge, the LORD is our lawgiver, the LORD is our king; he will save us.

    We cannot replace THE Judge with a handwriting of ordinances (another “judge”). If we do, then it has become “another god”….another elohim (judge)…that we are serving and not THE God who is The Judge.

    When we willingly submit ourselves to a church handwriting to serve and worship, then it has become a “Baal”….meaning “lord, master”.

    We have replaced God and His commandments with another “judge”…another “god” .

    We willingly submit ourselves to a handwriting of ordinances which becomes our “lord, master” then. Again, the handwriting becomes a “baal”….meaning “lord, master, husband”…as we willingly submit to a church’s handwriting.

    1 Kings 18:20-22 KJV
    (20) So Ahab sent unto all the children of Israel, and gathered the prophets together unto mount Carmel.

    If the LORD (Yahweh) be “God”….that is, if Yahweh is JUDGE….. then follow Him. Yahweh is Living.

    But if He is “Baal”…the church’s handwriting of ordinances, then follow him. Baal is a dead, lifeless body of work…the handwriting of men.

    Baal is “another god”…another judge…that is being used to judge others with. Yet, Baal has no life. The handwriting of men is not alive and cannot do nothing for us. They cannot act by themselves like our Living God can.

    (21) And Elijah came unto all the people, and said, How long halt ye between two opinions? if the LORD be God, follow him: but if Baal, then follow him. And the people answered him not a word.

    Our God is the Living One. He exists and is alive while the church’s “handwriting” (the Baal) is not. It is dead wood that will burn us up by the keeping of them.

    (22) Then said Elijah unto the people, I, even I only, remain a prophet of the LORD; but Baal's prophets are four hundred and fifty men.

    The LORD commanded us to KEEP His commandments and His statutes.

    When we depart from His commandments and His statutes and submit ourselves to the church handwritings of ordinances….their commandments and statutes, then we have left all of the commandments of the LORD our God (Judge) in order to serve a “BAAL” that men have written and placed in their churches .

    2 Kings 17:13-16 KJV
    (13) Yet the LORD testified against Israel, and against Judah, by all the prophets, and by all the seers, saying, Turn ye from your evil ways, and keep my commandments and my statutes, according to all the law which I commanded your fathers, and which I sent to you by my servants the prophets.

    They did not HEAR. They did not believe that Yahweh and His commandments and statutes (which are living commands) were their "God"...their Judge. Instead they turned to their handwritings of men as their "judge".

    (14) Notwithstanding they would not hear, but hardened their necks, like to the neck of their fathers, that did not believe in the LORD their God.

    This is about rejecting His commandments and statutes in order to keep man’s handwriting of ordinances….man’s statements of faith, man’s church constitutions, et…that many submit themselves to. It is a “baal” placed in the church for us to submit to as a “lord, master”.

    They went after the heathen....the nations...around them as they copied their handwritings of men (constitutions, bylaws, etc) and placed them in their places to serve and worship instead of serving and worshipping of the true God and His commandments and statutes.

    (15) And they rejected his statutes, and his covenant that he made with their fathers, and his testimonies which he testified against them; and they followed vanity, and became vain, and went after the heathen that were round about them, concerning whom the LORD had charged them, that they should not do like them.

    They leave the commandments of the LORD their Judge (God) and make for themselves “molten images”. Their handwritings are rigid and established in their churches and they want you to come and serve and worship their commandments and statutes…willingly submitting to their church constitutions and bylaws.

    They worship all of the “host of heaven”….the church handwritings of ordinances that are highly placed in their churches and are patterned after the constitutions and handwritings of the nations that they serve and which divides them.

    (16) And they left all the commandments of the LORD their God, and made them molten images, even two calves, and made a grove, and worshipped all the host of heaven, and served Baal.

    The churches are separated by their different handwritings which are against us and contrary to us. The churches’ handwritings of dogmas = the principalities and powers in the high places that we wrestle against.

    Colossians 2:14-15 KJV
    (14) Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
    (15) And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

    The churches are separated by their respective handwritings which are established by men who do not have the Spirit but are “sensual”. They lust for the world’s documents and think that we should be governed by their handwritings of ordinances ….just like the outside world….instead of God and His commandments.

    Jude 1:17-23 KJV
    (17) But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ;
    (18) How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.

    These denominations of men are led by those who do not have the Spirit. They separate themselves by their “garments” spotted by the flesh as they work their own handwritings of ordinances instead of the works of God’s righteousness.

    (19) These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.
    (20) But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,
    (21) Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.
    (22) And of some have compassion, making a difference:
    (23) And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.

    They are the modern-day “Pharisees” ….which means a “SEPARATIST”. Churches of men separate themselves.

    The “Pharisees” today are those who separate themselves into denominations where each one serves and worships a church scribe’s handwriting of dogmas that they have made for themselves.
    Woe unto the “scribes and Pharisees”.

    Matthew 23:13 KJV
    (13) But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

    When we “go to church” where they are serving the handwritings of the commandments and teachings of men (the BAALs), then we have forsaken the True God (THE Judge) and His commandments in order to serve "another judge"....another "god".

    These "gods"...the handwritings of men... are lifeless works that burn us as we perish with using up of the commandments and teachings of fleshly-minded men. Men praise their handwritings....that is, they burn incense to them.

    Jeremiah 19:4-6 KJV
    (4) Because they have forsaken me, and have estranged this place, and have burned incense in it unto other gods, whom neither they nor their fathers have known, nor the kings of Judah, and have filled this place with the blood of innocents;

    They have built the “high places of Baal”….and these handwritings which burn us and do not save us are passed down to the future generations after us. This passing down of the handwritings of ordinances destroys those after us as they are also required to keep and submit to them.

    Note that God DID NOT COMMAND nor did SPEAK it. He did not command the Baal (the handwriting).

    The handwritings of ordinances placed in the churches were not commanded by God nor did He speak those handwritings by His Spirit to them. These men (church scribes) who wrote them and command us to keep them do not have the Spirit but are fleshly-minded, sensual men.

    (5) They have built also the high places of Baal, to burn their sons with fire for burnt offerings unto Baal, which I commanded not, nor spake it, neither came it into my mind:
    (6) Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that this place shall no more be called Tophet, nor The valley of the son of Hinnom, but The valley of slaughter.

    The handwriting of ordinances/dogmas is a “baal” placed into the churches. It is an abomination placed where it should not be…in a place where God is worshipped. Yet, they worship Him in vain as they serve and worship the handwritings of men…their commandments and teachings of men…. more than God.

    Remember how Daniel was the only person who could read and understand the HANDWRITING upon the wall that Belshazzar and his interpreters could not interpret. (Whoso read, let him understand).

    The handwriting on the wall in Daniel was written in a way that is a parody of man’s official decrees.

    Matthew 24:15-16 KJV
    (15) When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)

    God’s righteousness is higher than man’s so-called works of righteousness which are contained in a handwriting which does not move out of its place out of the churches of men. Their handwritings are established there. They move not.

    (16) Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

    God’s righteousness is like the great mountains that we are to flee to when we understand that the handwritings of men are not His righteousness. Man’s works of righteousness do not preserve us…they destroy us in the “fire”. God’s righteousness preserves us.

    Psalms 36:6 KJV
    (6) Thy righteousness is like the great mountains; thy judgments are a great deep: O LORD, thou preservest man and beast.

    This brings the Lord’s message in Matthew 5:20 into view. Except our righteousness shall EXCEED the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees (the churches’ handwritings of ordinances), then we shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

    God’s righteousness exceeds the denominations of men and their handwritings and we must flee out of man’s so-called works of righteousness which are codified in their handwritings and to His works of righteousness.

    Matthew 5:20 KJV
    (20) For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

    To be continued…