Lead us not into temptation.

[sparow]

Quote. Pope Francis has signalled his approval of moves already under way in the Catholic church to change the line in the English version of the Lord's Prayer, from “Lead us not into temptation” to “Don't let me fall into temptation”. Noting that it was a bad translation, Pope Francis said: “It's Satan who leads us ... Unquote

I have never questioned this verse of scripture I have always assumed that I knew what it meant. The Pope's correction is dependant on his interpretation of the translation; I have problems with the words also but I don't see the Pope correcting the problem universally. I do not see any difference between being lead into temptation and falling into it; is temptation a place like hell or a state like euphoria. It is true Satan tempts us to do evil and God tempts us to do good, but here tempt is a verb.

In determining correct doctrine I believe in the two witnesses, the OT and the NT being in agreement.


Psalm 95:8
8 "Do not harden your hearts, as in the rebellion, As in the day of trial (temptation) in the wilderness,

Revelation 3:10
10 Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial (temptation) which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.

In Rev 3:10 the Prayer, "Lead us not into trial, but deliver us from evil", is fulfilled; I think the Pope is on the wrong track.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Methinks you think correctly.

 

[RC1970]

Quote. Pope Francis has signalled his approval of moves already under way in the Catholic church to change the line in the English version of the Lord's Prayer, from “Lead us not into temptation” to “Don't let me fall into temptation”. Noting that it was a bad translation, Pope Francis said: “It's Satan who leads us ... Unquote

I have never questioned this verse of scripture I have always assumed that I knew what it meant. The Pope's correction is dependant on his interpretation of the translation; I have problems with the words also but I don't see the Pope correcting the problem universally. I do not see any difference between being lead into temptation and falling into it; is temptation a place like hell or a state like euphoria. It is true Satan tempts us to do evil and God tempts us to do good, but here tempt is a verb.

In determining correct doctrine I believe in the two witnesses, the OT and the NT being in agreement.


Psalm 95:8
8 "Do not harden your hearts, as in the rebellion, As in the day of trial (temptation) in the wilderness,

Revelation 3:10
10 Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial (temptation) which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.

In Rev 3:10 the Prayer, "Lead us not into trial, but deliver us from evil", is fulfilled; I think the Pope is on the wrong track.

I agree, there is nothing to correct. This stanza of the prayer is a parallelism with the next "and deliver us from the evil one."

 

[Winken]

Let us not be led into temptation.....be there to deliver us from evil.

 

[Philip_B]

You may find this document opens up this area for those who are interested.

http://englishtexts.org/Portals/11/Assets/praying.pdf

I would also suggest you look at the version of the Lord's Prayer used in the Didache.

Again if you look at the rendering of Matthew 6:13 in the NRSV you find.

Matthew 6:13 NRSV
And do not bring us to the time of trial,
but rescue us from the evil one.​

All this resources point to a more eschatological (though not exclusively) view of the phrase in the Lord's Prayer. The Pope is not the first person to have some questions about this and Dr William Beveridge in 1720 wrote

And lead us not into Temptation, but deliver us from Evil. That is; Lead us not Thyself nor suffer us to be led by the Devil our ghostly Enemy, nor by any other, into any Temptation or Tryal that may be too hard for us, so as to cause us to fall: But deliver us from the Evil One, and from all manner of Evil, both of Sin and Misery. So that we here Pray for every thing that is or can be good for us: It being a great Evil to want any thing that is Good.

William Beveridge, The Church Catechism Explained (1720) | Anglican.net​

Which seems to be addressing the same issue, more from a catechetical approach.

In the Anglican Church of Australia we use (in the main) the ELLC text which renders it,

Save us from the time of trial
and deliver us from evil.​

 

[Stormy]

Something tells me that Jesus doesn't give a crap which way you say it. Just say it... Or something similar with heart and feeling.
Just pray and don't get caught up in details and fuss over trivia.

 

[Zoii]

I like the Pope. Hes unafraid of thinking outside of the conventional

 

[Basil the Great]

God bless you, Pope Francis.

 

[sparow]

You may find this document opens up this area for those who are interested.

http://englishtexts.org/Portals/11/Assets/praying.pdf

I would also suggest you look at the version of the Lord's Prayer used in the Didache.

Again if you look at the rendering of Matthew 6:13 in the NRSV you find.

Matthew 6:13 NRSV
And do not bring us to the time of trial,
but rescue us from the evil one.​

All this resources point to a more eschatological (though not exclusively) view of the phrase in the Lord's Prayer. The Pope is not the first person to have some questions about this and Dr William Beveridge in 1720 wrote

And lead us not into Temptation, but deliver us from Evil. That is; Lead us not Thyself nor suffer us to be led by the Devil our ghostly Enemy, nor by any other, into any Temptation or Tryal that may be too hard for us, so as to cause us to fall: But deliver us from the Evil One, and from all manner of Evil, both of Sin and Misery. So that we here Pray for every thing that is or can be good for us: It being a great Evil to want any thing that is Good.

William Beveridge, The Church Catechism Explained (1720) | Anglican.net​

Which seems to be addressing the same issue, more from a catechetical approach.

In the Anglican Church of Australia we use (in the main) the ELLC text which renders it,

Save us from the time of trial
and deliver us from evil.​

Regarding the Popes statements the issue is not simply the words used but God's role. The KJV says, God don't you lead us in to temptation, and the Pope says God would not do that anyway. The Pope would not use a Protestant Bible anyway; most modern Bible still have the word "temptation in the Lord's prayer; the Pope does not object to the word "temptation" he objects to God leading us there. You do not appear to have misunderstood the scripture, but the Pope has; he probably understands that verse in accord with RC doctrine.

 

[sparow]

Something tells me that Jesus doesn't give a crap which way you say it. Just say it... Or something similar with heart and feeling.
Just pray and don't get caught up in details and fuss over trivia.

I believe Jesus gave us the Lord's prayer as an example of how to pray so as to not pray as the Pagan's do; yet reciting it is probably what the Pagans would do.

 

[gordonhooker]

Regarding the Popes statements the issue is not simply the words used but God's role. The KJV says, God don't you lead us in to temptation, and the Pope says God would not do that anyway. The Pope would not use a Protestant Bible anyway; most modern Bible still have the word "temptation in the Lord's prayer; the Pope does not object to the word "temptation" he objects to God leading us there. You do not appear to have misunderstood the scripture, but the Pope has; he probably understands that verse in accord with RC doctrine.

Rubbish.

 

[gordonhooker]

I believe Jesus gave us the Lord's prayer as an example of how to pray so as to not pray as the Pagan's do; yet reciting it is probably what the Pagans would do.

What and he just happened to give it to us in the KJV?

Try reading Matt. 6:13 in a few different translations of the Bible.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Something tells me that Jesus doesn't give a crap which way you say it. Just say it... Or something similar with heart and feeling.
Just pray and don't get caught up in details and fuss over trivia.

Well, it is true He blasted the top knots who prayed all for show, hypocrites who wanted to look good in front of others , and who constantly misled others and wouldn't lift a finger to help them.
As for His disciples, who followed in spirit and in truth, worshiping Yahweh,
He cared perfectly as our good shepherd does still today, shepherding us His Way as the Father Directs Him and Directs our lives.

 

[Goatee]

Interpretation.......

Good and bad

 

[Shempster]

Funny how one English word (tempt) makes God appear potentially malicious while another one (trial) makes Him look like a nurturing Father.
This is not the only occurrence of this in the bible. There are others.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Funny how one English word (tempt) makes God appear potentially malicious while another one (trial) makes Him look like a nurturing Father.
This is not the only occurrence of this in the bible. There are others.

Well, man is full of contradictions and false teachings, right ?

For example, it is clear from some Scripture that Yahweh does not tempt men to sin, however He means that.
And also, that we must endure fiery trials (endure to the end to be saved, btw)....
and
our faith is tested often (we face temptations EVERY DAY , TRAPS are laid every day against us)
like
gold, pure gold (but MUCH MORE VALUABLE than all the gold in the world)
our faith is tested for the purpose of APPROVING IT, with POSITIVE expectation (on Yahweh's Part and by believers in Him)....

and WOE (condemned?) are those who cause the LIGHT to go out of a child's eyes....

so many many instructions all in perfect harmony on God's Side(understanding and meaning),

but often befuddled on man's side (man's understanding until God opens the understanding).

 

[com7fy8]

I think it can mean not to lead us into a situation in which He knows we will fail and not recover.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I think it can mean not to lead us into a situation in which He knows we will fail and not recover.

Amen, perhaps, as it is written clearly He won't ever give us too much to carry/ suffer through/
that He always gives us a way of escape (even if we are martyred like during wwii and other wars etc etc etc) --- He gives us the grace needed at the moment, yes, even to die JOYOUSLY in CHRIST.

 

[com7fy8]

even to die JOYOUSLY in CHRIST.

Very good!! Jesus does not mean this only as a defensive thing, but He desires us to be bountiful, not just barely getting by.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Very good!! Jesus does not mean this only as a defensive thing, but He desires us to be bountiful, not just barely getting by.

Not necessarily .... hopefully that is you're not referring to the destructive to both truth and to faith prosperity gospel (a sometimes fatal, often overwhelming temptation/ trap for believers unaware)