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[dzheremi]

Faith without works is dead

Writing only for myself, I don't have any problem with faith and works, but have a huge problem with works being the basis of salvation, as in the Mormon "after all that you can do" setup. After all, when St. Peter preaches against the Jewish works of the law, he does so by contrasting that mode of salvation (the Jewish idea) with salvation through faith in Christ (the Christian idea), saying "We who are Jews by nature, and not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified." (Galatians 2:15-16; emphasis added)

So it would seem that the problem is not with works themselves as a thing (i.e., it is by no means anything bad to do good works), but with the idea that anyone would be justified by them. This is why "after all that you can do" is anti-Biblical and rejected -- not because Christians are in any way forgetting to keep God's commandments, or because we are against this or that part of the Bible wherein good works are commended and commanded, or any of the other false insinuations that Mormons here like to frequently repeat.

My question to any Mormon here is why does your religion insist on trying to drag people back to a mode of salvation which has been thoroughly fulfilled and superseded in Jesus Christ?

 

[Ironhold]

My question to any Mormon here is why does your religion insist on trying to drag people back to a mode of salvation which has been thoroughly fulfilled and superseded in Jesus Christ?

There are theologies within mainline Christianity which hold that once you proclaim you believe in Christ you've got a one-way ticket to Heaven regardless of what you do with the rest of your life.

How do you feel about those?

 

[He is the way]

How many good works? 2, 10, ALL YOU can do?

If the later, how are you doing today, this week, this year?

Whenever you know you should:

(New Testament | James 4:17)

17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

1 John 2 English Standard Version (ESV)

Christ Our Advocate
2 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. 2 He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world. 3 And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments. 4 Whoever says “I know him” but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him,

5 but whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of God is perfected. By this we may know that we are in him: 6 whoever says he abides in him ought to walk in the same way in which he walked.

re post 62......

 

[He is the way]

The work happened on the CROSS!

Ephesians 2
11Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; 12That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: 13But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. 14For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; 15Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; 16And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: 17And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. 18For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.


Christians are sheep following the Shepherd. Where He leads, I will follow.View attachment 237052

Once a person is washed by the blood of Christ, they should sin no more:

(New Testament | Romans 6:1 - 16)

1 WHAT shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

(New Testament | 2 Peter 2:20 - 22)

20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

 

[drstevej]

Whenever you know you should:

(New Testament | James 4:17)

17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

You avoided my question.

 

[dzheremi]

There are theologies within mainline Christianity which hold that once you proclaim you believe in Christ you've got a one-way ticket to Heaven regardless of what you do with the rest of your life.

How do you feel about those?

This isn't an answer to my post. Try again.

 

[He is the way]

Writing only for myself, I don't have any problem with faith and works, but have a huge problem with works being the basis of salvation, as in the Mormon "after all that you can do" setup. After all, when St. Peter preaches against the Jewish works of the law, he does so by contrasting that mode of salvation (the Jewish idea) with salvation through faith in Christ (the Christian idea), saying "We who are Jews by nature, and not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified." (Galatians 2:15-16; emphasis added)

So it would seem that the problem is not with works themselves as a thing (i.e., it is by no means anything bad to do good works), but with the idea that anyone would be justified by them. This is why "after all that you can do" is anti-Biblical and rejected -- not because Christians are in any way forgetting to keep God's commandments, or because we are against this or that part of the Bible wherein good works are commended and commanded, or any of the other false insinuations that Mormons here like to frequently repeat.

My question to any Mormon here is why does your religion insist on trying to drag people back to a mode of salvation which has been thoroughly fulfilled and superseded in Jesus Christ?

The Bible teaches us that once our sins are washed away we should sin no more. We should not there after return to our sins. That being said there are two other ways to be relieved of sin:

(New Testament | James 5:19 - 20)

19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

(New Testament | 1 Peter 4:8)

8 And above all things have fervent charity among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sins.

 

[He is the way]

You avoided my question.

That scripture should have been the answer to your question. Every time a person has the opportunity to help someone else, they should do it. How I am doing is between me and God just as it is with you.

 

[He is the way]

Writing only for myself, I don't have any problem with faith and works, but have a huge problem with works being the basis of salvation, as in the Mormon "after all that you can do" setup. After all, when St. Peter preaches against the Jewish works of the law, he does so by contrasting that mode of salvation (the Jewish idea) with salvation through faith in Christ (the Christian idea), saying "We who are Jews by nature, and not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified." (Galatians 2:15-16; emphasis added)

So it would seem that the problem is not with works themselves as a thing (i.e., it is by no means anything bad to do good works), but with the idea that anyone would be justified by them. This is why "after all that you can do" is anti-Biblical and rejected -- not because Christians are in any way forgetting to keep God's commandments, or because we are against this or that part of the Bible wherein good works are commended and commanded, or any of the other false insinuations that Mormons here like to frequently repeat.

My question to any Mormon here is why does your religion insist on trying to drag people back to a mode of salvation which has been thoroughly fulfilled and superseded in Jesus Christ?

As I have said many times and still say, we are not saved by works, neither are we saved without works. Without the proxy atonement of Jesus Christ no flesh could return to God, therefore no one can boast of their saving themselves, because no matter how hard they try they can't do it. It is also imperative that we keep the commandments so we can learn what LOVE is because God is LOVE and we need to become perfect like Him:

(New Testament | Matthew 5:48)

48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

 

[drstevej]

That scripture should have been the answer to your question. Every time a person has the opportunity to help someone else, they should do it. How I am doing is between me and God just as it is with you.

You avoided my question again. Is the true answer uncomfortable for you?

 

[He is the way]

You avoided my question again. Is the true answer uncomfortable for you?

No, I answered your question, you just don't like the answer.

 

[Rescued One]

As I have said many times and still say, we are not saved by works, neither are we saved without works. Without the proxy atonement of Jesus Christ no flesh could return to God, therefore no one can boast of their saving themselves, because no matter how hard they try they can't do it. It is also imperative that we keep the commandments so we can learn what LOVE is because God is LOVE and we need to become perfect like Him:

(New Testament | Matthew 5:48)

48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Which Mormons are perfect?

 

[Rescued One]

Once a person is washed by the blood of Christ, they should sin no more:

(New Testament | Romans 6:1 - 16)

1 WHAT shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

(New Testament | 2 Peter 2:20 - 22)

20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

All of us were under Satan's power; by God's grace we are now walking in the light.

Ephesians 5 NIV
8 For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Live as children of light 9 (for the fruit of the light consists in all goodness, righteousness and truth) 10 and find out what pleases the Lord. 11 Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them. 12 It is shameful even to mention what the disobedient do in secret. 13 But everything exposed by the light becomes visible—and everything that is illuminated becomes a light. 14 This is why it is said:

“Wake up, sleeper,
rise from the dead,
and Christ will shine on you.”

15 Be very careful, then, how you live—not as unwise but as wise, 16 making the most of every opportunity, because the days are evil. 17 Therefore do not be foolish, but understand what the Lord’s will is. 18 Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery. Instead, be filled with the Spirit, 19 speaking to one another with psalms, hymns, and songs from the Spirit. Sing and make music from your heart to the Lord, 20 always giving thanks to God the Father for everything, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Christians love the blessing and opportunity to share the Gospel with Mormons. Some Mormons will see the truth! JESUS is the way, not Joseph Smith. Our sins are washed away by the blood of JESUS.

Romans 5
6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. 7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die. 8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Much more then,
being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. 11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

Mormonism is a false gospel that says a person has to believe in Joseph Smith and Jesus. I reject Joseph Smith. I have decided to follow JESUS.

 

[Rescued One]

The Bible teaches us that once our sins are washed away we should sin no more. We should not there after return to our sins. That being said there are two other ways to be relieved of sin:

(New Testament | James 5:19 - 20)

19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

(New Testament | 1 Peter 4:8)

8 And above all things have fervent charity among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sins.

We KNOW that the Bible doesn't teach us to follow Joseph Smith; following him is sin.

John 10
1 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber...

7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep...

9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

John 14
6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Matthew 1
21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

Acts 4
Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

 

[He is the way]

Which Mormons are perfect?

Those who are perfected in Christ Jesus:

(New Testament | John 17:22 - 23)

22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

(New Testament | Philippians 3:12 - 21)

12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.
16 Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing.
17 Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample.
18 (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ:
19 Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.)
20 For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:
21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

 

[He is the way]

All of us were under Satan's power; by God's grace we are now walking in the light.

Ephesians 5 NIV
8 For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Live as children of light 9 (for the fruit of the light consists in all goodness, righteousness and truth) 10 and find out what pleases the Lord. 11 Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them. 12 It is shameful even to mention what the disobedient do in secret. 13 But everything exposed by the light becomes visible—and everything that is illuminated becomes a light. 14 This is why it is said:

“Wake up, sleeper,
rise from the dead,
and Christ will shine on you.”

15 Be very careful, then, how you live—not as unwise but as wise, 16 making the most of every opportunity, because the days are evil. 17 Therefore do not be foolish, but understand what the Lord’s will is. 18 Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery. Instead, be filled with the Spirit, 19 speaking to one another with psalms, hymns, and songs from the Spirit. Sing and make music from your heart to the Lord, 20 always giving thanks to God the Father for everything, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Christians love the blessing and opportunity to share the Gospel with Mormons. Some Mormons will see the truth! JESUS is the way, not Joseph Smith. Our sins are washed away by the blood of JESUS.

Romans 5
6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. 7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die. 8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Much more then,
being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. 11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

Mormonism is a false gospel that says a person has to believe in Joseph Smith and Jesus. I reject Joseph Smith. I have decided to follow JESUS.

View attachment 237144

I believe in following ALL of God's prophets and keeping the commandments for the love and mercy of Jesus Christ:

(Old Testament | Exodus 20:6)

6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

 

[He is the way]

We KNOW that the Bible doesn't teach us to follow Joseph Smith; following him is sin.

John 10
1 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber...

7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep...

9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

John 14
6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Matthew 1
21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

Acts 4
Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

All of God's prophets teach us to follow Jesus Christ and keep the commandments.

 

[Rescued One]

All of God's prophets teach us to follow Jesus Christ and keep the commandments.

Mormon commandments didn't come from God.

 

[He is the way]

Mormon commandments didn't come from God.

So are you saying that the Bible is not of God, because the Bible contains the commandments?