Laying on of Hands - Please Comment

jazzypooh

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Hello Everyone,

I had an interesting phenomena occur today, and I would like some advice concerning this topic. Before I begin I want to say that I DO believe in the laying on of hands and the manifestations of the Holy Spirit as defined in Scripture. I also believe that there are spirits that try to counterfeit these manifestations. I don't believe that you have to fall every time someone lays hands on you, but I do believe people CAN fall under the presence/anointing of God. I know a lot of people have different beliefs concerning the topic, so I just want to make mines clear ahead of time before we exchange.

With that being said, I experienced something quite odd today at my church - something that I had only read or heard about up until today but never witnessed firsthand. Towards the end of service, there was an altar call for prayer. I went up for prayer and as I was being prayed for by one of my pastors she began to lay hands on me which was fine..... up until I felt her pushing me down to the floor.. Prior to this occurring, the service was going great. The worship was great. The Word that went forth was great. Everything was fine up until this moment that left me feeling extremely awkward and confused. I have had other pastors pray for me. There have been times where I may have fallen under the presence of God, but I have never had someone literally PUSH me down to the floor and tell me not to fight it... As if I was resisting God as opposed to simply not feeling His presence moving through them at that moment... It was the most awkward and uncomfortable thing I have ever experienced.

I'm not even sure how to go about addressing this issue. On one hand, I'm wondering if I should consider finding another church but I don't want to judge the situation prematurely and end up "church-hopping" or out of the will of God. Then on the other hand I would like to express my concerns to her about it but I don't want it to negatively effect the relationship we have been developing. I have been growing since being a part of this ministry. I also don't want to offend, but I would like to think that my leader doesn't walk in such pride.. However, considering what happened she may be walking in something I am unaware of... I know God uses us in spite of us, no one is perfect, and we all are capable of having our "flesh" moments, but I also know that not everyone is always able to own up to those moments especially those in leadership. So basically, I am unsure about how to approach this situation or if I even should approach the situation. Have any of you ever gone through something like this? Please feel free to share your thoughts and how you handled it.

Blessings
 

de1929

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Hello Everyone,

I had an interesting phenomena occur today, and I would like some advice concerning this topic. Before I begin I want to say that I DO believe in the laying on of hands and the manifestations of the Holy Spirit as defined in Scripture. I also believe that there are spirits that try to counterfeit these manifestations. I don't believe that you have to fall every time someone lays hands on you, but I do believe people CAN fall under the presence/anointing of God. I know a lot of people have different beliefs concerning the topic, so I just want to make mines clear ahead of time before we exchange.

With that being said, I experienced something quite odd today at my church - something that I had only read or heard about up until today but never witnessed firsthand. Towards the end of service, there was an altar call for prayer. I went up for prayer and as I was being prayed for by one of my pastors she began to lay hands on me which was fine..... up until I felt her pushing me down to the floor.. Prior to this occurring, the service was going great. The worship was great. The Word that went forth was great. Everything was fine up until this moment that left me feeling extremely awkward and confused. I have had other pastors pray for me. There have been times where I may have fallen under the presence of God, but I have never had someone literally PUSH me down to the floor and tell me not to fight it... As if I was resisting God as opposed to simply not feeling His presence moving through them at that moment... It was the most awkward and uncomfortable thing I have ever experienced.

I'm not even sure how to go about addressing this issue. On one hand, I'm wondering if I should consider finding another church but I don't want to judge the situation prematurely and end up "church-hopping" or out of the will of God. Then on the other hand I would like to express my concerns to her about it but I don't want it to negatively effect the relationship we have been developing. I have been growing since being a part of this ministry. I also don't want to offend, but I would like to think that my leader doesn't walk in such pride.. However, considering what happened she may be walking in something I am unaware of... I know God uses us in spite of us, no one is perfect, and we all are capable of having our "flesh" moments, but I also know that not everyone is always able to own up to those moments especially those in leadership. So basically, I am unsure about how to approach this situation or if I even should approach the situation. Have any of you ever gone through something like this? Please feel free to share your thoughts and how you handled it.

Blessings

are you comfortable with the church ? is the church is far away from your home ? how about the people / friends there ?
 
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jazzypooh

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are you comfortable with the church ? is the church is far away from your home ? how about the people / friends there ?

I have been comfortable with the church up until this point. I'm fairly new. I started fellowshipping with them back in August and decided to join a few months later. I drive about 20 minutes to get there. The people are really loving and welcoming which is what played a big role in my decision to join this ministry. One thing I have begun to notice is that when they flow in the prophetic some things are a hit or miss. Some of it may be accurate. Some of it may be not. It wasn't a huge dealbreaker for me because I am comfortable with my personal relationship with God to the point where I don't have to depend on a prophetic word from someone else. It's great if God decides to move that way, but I believe I can go straight to Him for myself and get a word for my own life. So to answer your question, I'm beginning to discern that some things are a little off when they flow in spiritual gifts. But I am comfortable because I know all of us are at different places in our walk with God and it takes time for people to mature in spiritual gifts. It's just this whole shoving me to the floor incident that did not sit well with my spirit especially coming the pastor/copastor.
 
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de1929

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I have been comfortable with the church up until this point. I'm fairly new. I started fellowshipping with them back in August and decided to join a few months later. I drive about 20 minutes to get there. The people are really loving and welcoming which is what played a big role in my decision to join this ministry. One thing I have begun to notice is that when they flow in the prophetic some things are a hit or miss. Some of it may be accurate. Some of it may be not. It wasn't a huge dealbreaker for me because I am comfortable with my personal relationship with God to the point where I don't have to depend on a prophetic word from someone else. It's great if God decides to move that way, but I believe I can go straight to Him for myself and get a word for my own life. So to answer your question, I'm beginning to discern that some things are a little off when they flow in spiritual gifts. But I am comfortable because I know all of us are at different places in our walk with God and it takes time for people to mature in spiritual gifts. It's just this whole shoving me to the floor incident that did not sit well with my spirit especially coming the pastor/copastor.

wow long topic... this one i just wanna address prophecy first:
i give you simple case: Miss C is pregnant 5 months.

Q. If you hear prophecy that Miss C will have problems with her baby. What should you do ?
A. You thank GOD for revealing the problems, now you speak provision to the baby, and you speak curses that will bring troubles to the baby. And teach the parents to keep hope in CHRIST and thanks for revealing devil's plan.

Q. If you hear prophecy that Miss C will have good baby. What should you do ?
A. You thank GOD for revealing the problems, now you speak that the mother will not be pride and the father will not be haughty thinking they don't need GOD.
 
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jazzypooh

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wow long topic... this one i just wanna address prophecy first:
i give you simple case: Miss C is pregnant 5 months.

Q. If you hear prophecy that Miss C will have problems with her baby. What should you do ?
A. You thank GOD for revealing the problems, now you speak provision to the baby, and you speak curses that will bring troubles to the baby. And teach the parents to keep hope in CHRIST and thanks for revealing devil's plan.

Q. If you hear prophecy that Miss C will have good baby. What should you do ?
A. You thank GOD for revealing the problems, now you speak that the mother will not be pride and the father will not be haughty thinking they don't need GOD.

I would go to God for myself and speak His Word concerning my child.
 
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jazzypooh

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good... :D

if i can extend suggestions, if your church is not wof, then don't talk like that to your church friends. wof mindset has a lot of enemies.

They are non-denominational as am I, but we share WOF beliefs. The teaching I receive there has been pretty sound thus far it's just this issue that occurred today. I know no church is perfect so I try to keep that in mind wherever I go. I just want to be in God's will.
 
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de1929

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They are non-denominational as am I, but we share WOF beliefs. The teaching I receive there has been pretty sound thus far it's just this issue that occurred today. I know no church is perfect so I try to keep that in mind wherever I go. I just want to be in God's will.

just ignore the lady pastor that pushes you.
the idea of entertaining bad thinking is actually bring the bad things closer to reality. It's a devil traps

that's why phil 4:8 - 9 commands you to think positively. think positive is my paraphrase. imo when you read the verses you will understand what i mean.
 
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TheNorwegian

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I would tell her in a nice way that you were unhappy because you felt as if she was trying to push you. Maybe she really does push on purpose and is so she needs to stop doing that. If she pushes you - she likely does the same to others. That needs to stop. Maybe she does it subconsciously, and then she will appreciate to get the feedback

I would be concerned about a culture where you are not sure that you can give your leaders an honest feedback. That is potentially more dangerous than being pushed IMHO. I am no from the US though, so we think differently about leadership where I live
 
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ABlessedAnomaly

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Hi Jazzy! Welcome to the forums. I've combined your first two post so I could answer them together...

Hello Everyone,
I had an interesting phenomena occur today, and I would like some advice concerning this topic. Before I begin I want to say that I DO believe in the laying on of hands and the manifestations of the Holy Spirit as defined in Scripture. I also believe that there are spirits that try to counterfeit these manifestations. I don't believe that you have to fall every time someone lays hands on you, but I do believe people CAN fall under the presence/anointing of God. I know a lot of people have different beliefs concerning the topic, so I just want to make mines clear ahead of time before we exchange.
You are correct. Some may fall under the anointing and some may not. There were many who had hands laid on them in the bible that did not fall under the Lord's presence. No issue there.

With that being said, I experienced something quite odd today at my church - something that I had only read or heard about up until today but never witnessed firsthand. Towards the end of service, there was an altar call for prayer. I went up for prayer and as I was being prayed for by one of my pastors she began to lay hands on me which was fine..... up until I felt her pushing me down to the floor.. Prior to this occurring, the service was going great. The worship was great. The Word that went forth was great. Everything was fine up until this moment that left me feeling extremely awkward and confused. I have had other pastors pray for me. There have been times where I may have fallen under the presence of God, but I have never had someone literally PUSH me down to the floor and tell me not to fight it... As if I was resisting God as opposed to simply not feeling His presence moving through them at that moment... It was the most awkward and uncomfortable thing I have ever experienced.
You mention that you were being prayed for by a pastor? Main pastor? Associate pastor? Support pastor? Or was she actually an elder and not an ordained pastor?

I'm not even sure how to go about addressing this issue. On one hand, I'm wondering if I should consider finding another church but I don't want to judge the situation prematurely and end up "church-hopping" or out of the will of God.
Up until now I got the feeling (assumption or not) that things were well in this church. So to hear you suddenly throw out "find another church" seems quite a knee jerk reaction. Before this event did you ever have feelings of changing churches?

Then on the other hand I would like to express my concerns to her about it but I don't want it to negatively effect the relationship we have been developing. I have been growing since being a part of this ministry. I also don't want to offend, but I would like to think that my leader doesn't walk in such pride.. However, considering what happened she may be walking in something I am unaware of...
Your considerations are right on target. This is something that you need to evaluate in prayer. Let the Holy Spirit lead you in the Word about this. More on my thoughts in a moment.

I know God uses us in spite of us, no one is perfect, and we all are capable of having our "flesh" moments, but I also know that not everyone is always able to own up to those moments especially those in leadership. So basically, I am unsure about how to approach this situation or if I even should approach the situation. Have any of you ever gone through something like this? Please feel free to share your thoughts and how you handled it.
My answer to this depends upon my earlier questions. Who is this person? Main/Associate/Support Pastor? Or an elder?

Your second post had some thoughts that are related to this, so let's continue....

Second post....
I have been comfortable with the church up until this point. I'm fairly new. I started fellowshipping with them back in August and decided to join a few months later. I drive about 20 minutes to get there. The people are really loving and welcoming which is what played a big role in my decision to join this ministry.
Sounds like a wonderful place of fellowship.

One thing I have begun to notice is that when they flow in the prophetic some things are a hit or miss. Some of it may be accurate. Some of it may be not.
This is problematic. There are many in charismatic circles who feel that they must be prophetic. And they seem to do this when they are not. Thus, they miss. Thus, they are not accurate at times.

Are they going to far as to CLAIM that it is from the Lord? Are they saying "thus sayeth the Lord" or something of the same meaning? And did these claims fail?

whenever a prophet speaks in my name and the prediction is not fulfilled, then I have not spoken it; the prophet has presumed to speak it, so you need not fear him.”
Deut 18:22

ANY prophecy that fails is grounds to not fear the speaker -- or to not trust them.

But, as you likely know, some prophecy is not so easy to determine a success or failure. Some is not so much about some event that will happen but simply how you should act or something that you should do.

It wasn't a huge dealbreaker for me because I am comfortable with my personal relationship with God to the point where I don't have to depend on a prophetic word from someone else. It's great if God decides to move that way, but I believe I can go straight to Him for myself and get a word for my own life. So to answer your question, I'm beginning to discern that some things are a little off when they flow in spiritual gifts. But I am comfortable because I know all of us are at different places in our walk with God and it takes time for people to mature in spiritual gifts. It's just this whole shoving me to the floor incident that did not sit well with my spirit especially coming the pastor/copastor.
And this is meat of the Word. Your words contain wisdom of the Word that comes from study and from the Holy Spirit's leading. You know that you can "go straight to Him for [yourself]." And in that your relationship with the Lord is one where God, in His Word, tells us over and over that He will guide us.

We know that there are prophets who preached to whole cities. Jonah comes to mind. Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Isaiah. These men spoke to masses of people who were not listening to God for themselves. These types of people need an external leading.

But for the child of God who seeks God, we are told that the Holy Spirit will guide us, show us the Word, lead us in understanding, and lead us into application of the Word in our lives. For the child of God who is in an intimate relationship with Him, an outside prophet is not necessary. If one does come, it is natural for you to go to the Spirit for confirmation.

And a minister who feels it necessary to push you and force you down as if the Holy Spirit had made it happen is indeed crossing a line. They are forcing appearances so that others will see the "power" in their prayer.

I attended a church some years back and became an elder there. It was our position to go up after service and pray for those who would come forward for prayer. We were instructed to listen to their request, then if we "felt" we had input from the Holy Spirit to counsel them, and then we were to pray for them. We were told that we need to wait until an usher was behind the person before laying hands on them, for we need to have a "catcher" if they fell. Did not the Holy Spirit either know that He needed a "catcher" or care? Why would the Holy Spirit take one down if there was no "catcher?" Of course, we were taught that if one went down under the influence of the Holy Spirit, that He would protect them even without a "catcher."

We were told two interesting things: (1) there are some people who will fall regardless; they want to show that they have been touched and let others see just how "holy" they are in that they received something that made them fall; and (2) that, once there was a catcher, if the person's request was "deep" enough, then give a little "push" and see if they will go down.

Now, in many other aspects this church taught prayer well. There were only these few little oddities that set them apart. And I was never comfortable with "pushing" and didn't do it. After some time I discovered a number of other things about the church and the pastors (having become an armorbearer for one of the pastors) that caused me to break ties and leave the church.

The church you are attending, overall, sounds like a wonderful church. So my advise would be to determine if this is a church issue (as mine was) or if this is an issue of a single person. This is why I ask the position of this pastor. How much control does this pastor have in the church?

So, if you are comfortable in this, I would go to this pastor and ask why they were pusing you down. I'd express my concerns and listen to their response. If the response comes in pride then evaluate as necessary. If this is someone who is more of an elder, and their answer does not agree with you, then taking the question to the senior pastor(s) would be the next step. Most senior pastors worthy of their salt will protect and defend their staff. What you are listening for is if they make a defense as if you are wrong, or if they simply give preference to their staff but discuss with you this situation. But mostly you want to see if they condone the "pushing." If they teach that "pushing" helps in any way, then you know they are taking things into their own hands and forcing the Spirit's response.

And an important point: if you do talk to either or all of these individuals, when you bring up your points if they take an opposing side and try to tell you why they are right (and perhaps why you are wrong) DO NOT ARGUE. Simply thank them for their viewpoint and move to the next step. Trying to debate one in leadership will never lead to a good place.

In closing, I would not let this event shape your view of the church alone. But if the leaders of the church condone this "fording of the Spirit" then you have a decision to make. I was in that situation and I made my decision. I simply can't speak for you. Evaluate the situation with the leading of the Holy Spirit.

God bless.
 
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ABlessedAnomaly

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just ignore the lady pastor that pushes you.
the idea of entertaining bad thinking is actually bring the bad things closer to reality. It's a devil traps
Ignore her? Funny, my bible tells me to exhort those who are doing wrong.

2 Preach the message, be ready whether it is convenient or not, reprove, rebuke, exhort with complete patience and instruction. 3 For there will be a time when people will not tolerate sound teaching. Instead, following their own desires, they will accumulate teachers for themselves, because they have an insatiable curiosity to hear new things. 4 And they will turn away from hearing the truth, but on the other hand they will turn aside to myths.
2 Timothy 4:2-4

We are not to ignore what is wrong. Rather we are to instruct in the Truth. We are to "reprove, rebuke, exhort and instruct." We are to correct what is wrong.

You are right in that we should not "entertain bad thinking." But "entertaining" it actually means to think on it, to ponder it as if it were true. But this is not what is being suggested. The pastor's wrong motives (if there be such) need to be exposed and corrected. Sweeping it under the rug and ignoring it will allow the infection to fester and grow and infect others in the church. Not a good attitude to have.
 
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ABlessedAnomaly

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She is the co-pastor. Her and her husband pastor the church together. He takes on the primary leadership role but they typically pastor together. It's a small congregation. There are other ministers at the church, but they are the only pastors.
Similar to my situation (only the two sons were also pastors here).

My thoughts: if you feel comfortable asking the pastor why she pushed, you should. Do not be confrontational (as if it were wrong, though it is) but rather informational. Let her tell you why it was "needed" in her view. Tell her your feelings. Gently. My thinking is that she will then defend her methods. Don't fight it, just nod and go on. She might surprise us and want to know more of why you felt it was not right. It would be a good start.

How did these pastors come to be pastors? Who ordained them? Did they have any education in theology or religious studies? In my case, these two were elders in another church and the husband was an associate for a short time at another church. They decided (e.g. they were not sent) to start their own church.
 
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Truthfrees

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Hello Everyone,

I had an interesting phenomena occur today, and I would like some advice concerning this topic. Before I begin I want to say that I DO believe in the laying on of hands and the manifestations of the Holy Spirit as defined in Scripture. I also believe that there are spirits that try to counterfeit these manifestations. I don't believe that you have to fall every time someone lays hands on you, but I do believe people CAN fall under the presence/anointing of God. I know a lot of people have different beliefs concerning the topic, so I just want to make mines clear ahead of time before we exchange.

With that being said, I experienced something quite odd today at my church - something that I had only read or heard about up until today but never witnessed firsthand. Towards the end of service, there was an altar call for prayer. I went up for prayer and as I was being prayed for by one of my pastors she began to lay hands on me which was fine..... up until I felt her pushing me down to the floor.. Prior to this occurring, the service was going great. The worship was great. The Word that went forth was great. Everything was fine up until this moment that left me feeling extremely awkward and confused. I have had other pastors pray for me. There have been times where I may have fallen under the presence of God, but I have never had someone literally PUSH me down to the floor and tell me not to fight it... As if I was resisting God as opposed to simply not feeling His presence moving through them at that moment... It was the most awkward and uncomfortable thing I have ever experienced.

I'm not even sure how to go about addressing this issue. On one hand, I'm wondering if I should consider finding another church but I don't want to judge the situation prematurely and end up "church-hopping" or out of the will of God. Then on the other hand I would like to express my concerns to her about it but I don't want it to negatively effect the relationship we have been developing. I have been growing since being a part of this ministry. I also don't want to offend, but I would like to think that my leader doesn't walk in such pride.. However, considering what happened she may be walking in something I am unaware of... I know God uses us in spite of us, no one is perfect, and we all are capable of having our "flesh" moments, but I also know that not everyone is always able to own up to those moments especially those in leadership. So basically, I am unsure about how to approach this situation or if I even should approach the situation. Have any of you ever gone through something like this? Please feel free to share your thoughts and how you handled it.

Blessings
My thoughts: if you feel comfortable asking the pastor why she pushed, you should. Do not be confrontational (as if it were wrong, though it is) but rather informational. Let her tell you why it was "needed" in her view. Tell her your feelings. Gently. My thinking is that she will then defend her methods. Don't fight it, just nod and go on. She might surprise us and want to know more of why you felt it was not right. It would be a good start.
This is excellent advice.

If she cares about how her actions affect people, she'll want to hear more.

If she doesn't want to hear more, drop it and find out what God wants you to do about it.
 
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jazzypooh

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How did these pastors come to be pastors? Who ordained them? Did they have any education in theology or religious studies? In my case, these two were elders in another church and the husband was an associate for a short time at another church. They decided (e.g. they were not sent) to start their own church.

These are good questions. I would have to investigate this further since I am still fairly new to the ministry. Do you feel that all pastors have to have formal education in theology? Personally, I believe God can still use someone even if they don't have any formal training but I see the importance of your question.
 
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ABlessedAnomaly

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These are good questions. I would have to investigate this further since I am still fairly new to the ministry. Do you feel that all pastors have to have formal education in theology? Personally, I believe God can still use someone even if they don't have any formal training but I see the importance of your question.
No, I don't think a formal education is needed. It is also not the pariah that some who don't have the education make the "ivory towers" seem like. Peter and Matthew didn't have great theological degrees. Luke had a great education; he was a doctor. Paul, a Pharisee, had one of the best formal educations (theological and otherwise) of his day.

My question is to sort of box in these pastors, to get a feel for what corner of teaching/preaching they come from. What I'm looking for is to see if they are "lone wolves." Not necessarily "wolves" in the biblical sense, but that isn't precluded by any means -- in fact it is something to be wary of. Husband and wife teams (or families) that are "self-appointed" into ministry are worth being careful of. As pastors, they buck the scriptural mandate of being sent (ordination). Certainly such a couple could be called by God and put in place for His reasons. The fruit of the ministry will tell where they fall. The problem is that when we first join a church we get caught up in the excitement of the "new place." I was in a dysfunctional church for nearly ten years, with only the last two raising any real questions in me.
 
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Si_monfaith

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Church leaders who push those who come for prayers do so to earn the approval of the viewers. This is a weakness. We could empathize with them. If only they know they are already approved by God just for the sake of His Son's work at redemption, they would never strive to earn the viewer's approval to 'up' their status in the kingdom. Instead they would start enjoying the laying-hands-on ministry.
 
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