Sidon

Well-Known Member
May 13, 2021
2,073
320
62
Florida
✟17,043.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I just quoted scriptures. There are a lot of references to keeping God's commandments, ignoring them and taking what Paul has said out of context.

Keep your innuendo off my Threads, if you are honest.

Do not post...>"taking paul" out of context, when you have no ability to prove it, and have never, and will never be able to do it.
But you keep falsely implying you did....

See, implying a lie, is not the same as proving a truth.

Be honest, instead.
 
Upvote 0

SabbathBlessings

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Jun 12, 2020
10,022
4,233
USA
✟470,826.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Keep your innuendo off my Threads, if you are honest.

Do not post...>"taking paul" out of context, when you have no ability to prove it, and have never, and will never be able to do it.
But you keep falsely implying you did....

See, implying a lie, is not the same as proving a truth.

Be honest, instead.
What does Paul mean by these scriptures?

Rom 2:13 "for it is not the hearers of the Law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the Law who will be justified."
1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God"
Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.


You have never addressed any scriptures.

What about what Jesus said from His own mouth- are we supposed to ignore scriptures from our Savior because it does fit with isolated, out of context scriptures from Paul?

Mathew 19:16 Now behold, one came and said to Him, “Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?”

17 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”

18 He said to Him, “Which ones?”

Jesus said, “‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ 19 ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ ”

Jesus quoted directly from the Ten Commandments.

Jesus also said He did not come to destroy God's laws, breaking one is like breaking them all.

Mathew 5:17 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. 19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.

You started this thread and we should be able to engage in friendly conversation over scriptures. You seem to get really upset when scriptures disagree with what you are teaching. The bible tells us there is one Gospel and one Truth, if my belief was not supported by scriptures I would want to know as soon as possible because Jesus is giving us a second chance and He is coming soon! These scriptures are quoted from love even if you do not accept that.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Sidon

Well-Known Member
May 13, 2021
2,073
320
62
Florida
✟17,043.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
What does Paul mean by these scripturesRom 2:13 "for it is not the hearers of the Law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the Law who will be justified."
1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God"
Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the lawYou have never addressed any scriptures.What about what Jesus said from His own mouth- are we supposed to ignore scriptures from our Savior because it does fit with isolated, out of context scriptures from Paul?Mathew 19:16 Now behold, one came and said to Him, “Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?”17 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”18 He said to Him, “Which ones?”

Thank you for the question.
I always answer a scripture QUESTiON., if i see it in a post.
Sometimes i miss them, as i have a lot of posts to reply to each day.

Ok ...

-
""""""""Rom 2:13 "for it is not the hearers of the Law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the Law who will be justified."""""""

This verse, you noticed, says that doing something is the way to be Justified before God.

Yet, The Grace of God, is the "GIFT of Salvation, not of WORKS"...

So, if you are keeping the law and commandments, ...then you are making that effort, and that is a WORK of the Flesh.
This is not a "GIFT" from God, and Salvation is a "Gift".

What does that mean?
It means that when God said to "study yourself approved", rightly DIVIDING" the word......then means you don't just jam all the NT verses together as if its one revelation only.
You are to understand what verses are talking what subject, and what verses are not, by discernment.
The word of God is "spiritually discerned".. Its not to be read like a pulp fiction and taught as a dictionary.

So, Salvation is God on the Cross., and nothing else.
Is that commandments or the law?
No its not.

God said "all that call on the name of Jesus, SHALL BE SAVED".

Jesus said..>"you must be born again".

Now, notice that all this is talking about God's Salvation, and how you get it.

Your verses are not.
When James talks about "dead faith", that is not James talking about "Justification by Faith".

So, all verses in the NT, have to be filtered through the Light of The CROSS, and the GIFT of Salvation.
This means that when you read any verse that talks about "keeping, or enduring , or working', then you are not reading a verse that is talking about redemption, "in the time of the Gentiles" as provided as a "GIFT".




"""""""""""""""1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God"
Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.""""""""""""""


The "law there", is not Paul talking about keeping the law so that you save yourself, as God does not save you using the Law. He saves you by shedding His BLOOD for you.
So, once again, when you read a verse that SEEMS to teach that "law" "commandments" and "self effort" are involved with GOD's GRACE, then you immediately realized that they are not.

So, what LAW has been established by the Blood of the NEW TESTAMENT?
Its this..

"you are no longer UNDER the LAW, but you are UNDER Grace".

Romans 7:4.. The Born again, are "DEAD to the Law".

We are not to be chasing it, when we are DEAD to it., as our idea of how we go to heaven.
Can what is dead give live?
Not quite.

"under Grace"...This is the LAW that operates within the Kingdom of Heaven", vs, the "law of Moses" that has dominion on the earth, regarding the unbelievers, or those who are born again, and are back under the law, having "fallen from GRACE".


God's Grace is the Spiritual realm.
Moses's Law and commandments are the TEMPORAL realm.



"""""""""""Mathew 19:16 Now behold, one came and said to Him, “Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?”""""""""


Notice that Jesus has not died on the Cross yet....in your verse.
So, Christ is answering according to still being "under the law" as a man.
He's talking to a jew, and Christ was sent to the "house of Israel".
So, He's talking about law and commandments, of course.
Later, when Christ has fulfilled the law and created the New Covenant with His Blood on the CROSS, .... He now says....>"All that believe in Me, i give unto you eternal life, and you shall never perish".

So, notice that difference between being a Jew and being told to do works before the CROSS, vs, being a gentile in the time of the gentiles, and being told to BELIEVE and be born again, after GOD has died on the Cross as this... John 3:16





""""""""17 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”
18 He said to Him, “Which ones?”"""""


Again..
Ask yourself......"is Jesus crucified yet" in the VERSE.. "is Jesus offered for the sin of the world yet"....John 3:16.... in the VERSE.
So, in your verse, He is again talking to Jews, because He was sent "to the house of Israel", before He died on the Cross and created the NEW Covenant.
And once He died on the Cross, then the NEW TESTAMENT was born and the New Covenant was BEGAN as : "the time of the GENTILES".
= now God is dealing with the GENTILES.
SO, in comes PAUL, the Apostle TO the gentiles., and Paul's Gospel is : "the preaching of the CROSS" to the world. John 3:16

Notice that when Jesus is talking to Jews, He does not talk to them about the CROSS.
AS He has not been on it yet.
So, He is still under the law, fulfilling it, dealing ONLY with the House of Israel, and that is why you find Jesus always talking to JEWS about the law of Moses and the commandments.






 
Upvote 0

pescador

Wise old man
Supporter
Nov 29, 2011
8,530
4,776
✟498,844.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
What does Paul mean by these scriptures?

Rom 2:13 "for it is not the hearers of the Law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the Law who will be justified."
1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God"
Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.


You have never addressed any scriptures.

What about what Jesus said from His own mouth- are we supposed to ignore scriptures from our Savior because it does fit with isolated, out of context scriptures from Paul?

Mathew 19:16 Now behold, one came and said to Him, “Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?”

17 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”

18 He said to Him, “Which ones?”

Jesus said, “‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ 19 ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ ”

Jesus quoted directly from the Ten Commandments.

Jesus also said He did not come to destroy God's laws, breaking one is like breaking them all.

Mathew 5:17 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. 19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.

You started this thread and we should be able to engage in friendly conversation over scriptures. You seem to get really upset when scriptures disagree with what you are teaching. The bible tells us there is one Gospel and one Truth, if my belief was not supported by scriptures I would want to know as soon as possible because Jesus is giving us a second chance and He is coming soon! These scriptures are quoted from love even if you do not accept that.

Is "SDA" a branch of Judaism?

To whom was Jesus talking in the verses that you quoted? If you answered "the Jews" you were correct. Otherwise understand that all Christians are under grace, not OT law.

There are many places throught the NT that state that believers are not under the OT law, but under grcace. Here are a few verses from Paul's writings...

Romans 3:19-22b, "Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world may be held accountable to God. For no one is declared righteous before him by the works of the law, for through the law comes the knowledge of sin. But now apart from the law the righteousness of God (although it is attested by the law and the prophets) has been disclosed— namely, the righteousness of God through the faithfulness of Jesus Christ for all who believe.

Romans 3:28, "For we consider that a person is declared righteous by faith apart from the works of the law."

Romans 4:13-14, "For the promise to Abraham or to his descendants that he would inherit the world was not fulfilled through the law, but through the righteousness that comes by faith. For if they become heirs by the law, faith is empty and the promise is nullified."

Romans 6:14, "For sin will have no mastery over you, because you are not under law but under grace."

Romans 7:4-6, "So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you could be joined to another, to the one who was raised from the dead, to bear fruit to God. For when we were in the flesh, the sinful desires, aroused by the law, were active in the members of our body to bear fruit for death. But now we have been released from the law, because we have died to what controlled us, so that we may serve in the new life of the Spirit and not under the old written code."

Romans 8:1-4, "There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the life-giving Spirit in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and death. For God achieved what the law could not do because it was weakened through the flesh. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and concerning sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, so that the righteous requirement of the law may be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.


Romans 10:4, "For Christ is the end of the law, with the result that there is righteousness for everyone who believes."


I'm tired of cutting-and-pasting from Romans!! Instead of listing some verses that were meant for the Jews under the Old Covenant, try reading with an open mind Paul's letter to the church in Rome and understand the freedom that Christians have from the OT law. We are dead to the Law but alive to God in Christ Jesus.

Really, freedom ain't bad!!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Danthemailman
Upvote 0

HIM

Friend
CF Ambassadors
Supporter
Mar 9, 2018
3,924
1,729
57
Alabama
Visit site
✟344,616.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Is "SDA" a branch of Judaism?
All of Christianity is
Rom 11:16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
Rom 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
Rom 11:18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
Rom 11:19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
Rom 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
Rom 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
 
Upvote 0

pescador

Wise old man
Supporter
Nov 29, 2011
8,530
4,776
✟498,844.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
All of Christianity is
Rom 11:16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
Rom 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
Rom 11:18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
Rom 11:19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
Rom 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
Rom 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

That's one strange interpretation! It saddens me that you don't understand the difference between Judaism and Christianity, never mind the difference between roots and branches.

BTW, you never answered my question: is "SDA" a branch of Judaism? Since you put yourself under the OT law, how can you claim to be anything but?
 
  • Useful
Reactions: Danthemailman
Upvote 0

SabbathBlessings

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Jun 12, 2020
10,022
4,233
USA
✟470,826.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married

Notice that when Jesus is talking to Jews, He does not talk to them about the CROSS.
AS He has not been on it yet.

I think it’s important to understand there are no more Jews or Gentiles when you are of Christ. When you are a follower of Christ you become part of God’s Israel. Galatians 3:28 God does not have one set of rules for Jews and another set for everyone else. There is One God, one Gospel and one Truth.

I quoted Jesus saying:

17 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”

Your response:
Ask yourself......"is Jesus crucified yet" in the VERSE.. "is Jesus offered for the sin of the world yet"....John 3:16.... in the VERSE.
So, in your verse, He is again talking to Jews, because He was sent "to the house of Israel", before He died on the Cross and created the NEW Covenant.

First of all there is no mention this person is a Jew in this passage, it just says he is a young rich ruler. It wouldn’t matter though, because we are all one if you are of Christ.

This passage is from the mouth of our Savior. There is no such teaching that God’s Ten Commandments ended at the Cross. Jesus became a sacrifice to save us from our sins, not a license to continue sinning. Jesus sacrifice was to give us victory over sin. Sin is what separated us from God. There would be no point of Jesus great sacrifice for us, if everyone is free to sin.

Are you free to murder now? Or lie? Or worship other idols? One of the last verses in the Bible disagrees and so does Jesus because he said it from His own mouth!

Revelations 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

Who is outside God’s Kingdom? The Commandment breakers:

Revelations 22:15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.

If we do not repent from our sins and knowingly break God’s Commandments, there is no more sacrifice for us. Hebrews 10:26


You said:
"you are no longer UNDER the LAW, but you are UNDER Grace".

We are saved by Grace, the law however is written in our heart in the New Covenant and we obey because we are saved, not to be saved. Obedience is a fruit of our love to God. John 14:15, 1 John 5:3, John 15:10

Which is why God’s saints keep God’s commandments Revelations 14:12 12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

You said:
Romans 7:4.. The Born again, are "DEAD to the Law".

Paul is not throwing out the laws of God’s. What Paul is saying is we should be living with the Spirit of the law- God’s laws written in our hearts and are fulfilled when we obey out of our love. We are dead to sin if we are walking with Christ.


Keep reading in Romans and Paul says this:


Romans 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.”

Romans 7:12 Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good.


We are saved by God’s grace, not by works. God’s grace is a gift that He gives to His saints. God’s saints believes in God, keeps God’s laws in their hearts and obey’s out of love and has the faith in Jesus. Sin is an abomination to God. We are all sinners in need of a Savior. Jesus gives us the Holy Spirit to help keep us from sinning. John 14:15-18. If we love Jesus we will keep His commandments.


Jesus told me out of His own mouth to keep His commandments, God wrote them with His own finger so that’s good enough for me.





 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

BobRyan

Junior Member
Angels Team
Supporter
Nov 21, 2008
51,118
10,509
Georgia
✟900,262.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Thank you for the question.
I always answer a scripture QUESTiON., if i see it in a post.
Sometimes i miss them, as i have a lot of posts to reply to each day.

Ok ...

-
""""""""Rom 2:13 "for it is not the hearers of the Law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the Law who will be justified."""""""

This verse, you noticed, says that doing something is the way to be Justified before God.

The full quote is in Rom 2:13-16 which makes it clear that the justification is in the context of future Gospel Judgment (as vs 16 explicitly states, as has been quoted repeatedly on this thread - and ignored)

Justification is a gospel concept.

Rom 2:
13 for it is not the hearers of the Law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the Law who will be justified. 14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law instinctively perform the requirements of the Law, these, though not having the Law, are a law to themselves, 15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience testifying and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, 16 on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of mankind through Christ Jesus .

It is the same context for justification that we see in James 2 --

James 2: 21 Was our father Abraham not justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected; 23 and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “And Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” and he was called a friend of God. 24 You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.

Bible details affirmed by Christ in Matt 7

21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. 22 Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; leave Me, you who practice lawlessness.’
24 “Therefore, everyone who hears these words of Mine, and acts on them, will be like a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25 And the rain fell and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and yet it did not fall, for it had been founded on the rock. 26 And everyone who hears these words of Mine, and does not act on them, will be like a foolish man

========================

These are Bible details that do not vanish no matter how much vitriol or ad hominem name-calling one might wish to use to dismiss them.
 
Upvote 0

HIM

Friend
CF Ambassadors
Supporter
Mar 9, 2018
3,924
1,729
57
Alabama
Visit site
✟344,616.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
That's one strange interpretation! It saddens me that you don't understand the difference between Judaism and Christianity, never mind the difference between roots and branches.

BTW, you never answered my question: is "SDA" a branch of Judaism? Since you put yourself under the OT law, how can you claim to be anything but?
You use to many pronouns
 
Upvote 0

BobRyan

Junior Member
Angels Team
Supporter
Nov 21, 2008
51,118
10,509
Georgia
✟900,262.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married

Notice that when Jesus is talking to Jews, He does not talk to them about the CROSS.
AS He has not been on it yet.

Until you read John 6.

And in Matt 24 "THIS GOSPEL of the kindgom shall be preachedin all the world and then shall the end come" -- not "some other gospel"

Matt 28 "Teaching them ALL things that I Commanded you" is the great commission, not "don't teach them that my teaching matters since I spent my life speaking to Jews"

Gal 1:6-9 only ONE Gospel
Gal 3:8 that ONE "Gospel was preached to Abraham"
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

BobRyan

Junior Member
Angels Team
Supporter
Nov 21, 2008
51,118
10,509
Georgia
✟900,262.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Is "SDA" a branch of Judaism?

To whom was Jesus talking in the verses that you quoted? If you answered "the Jews" you were correct. Otherwise understand that all Christians are under grace, not OT law.

Jer 31:31-34 the NEW Covenant has the OT law that defines what sin is - written on the heart.
Heb 8:6-12 that New Covenant STILL has that same Law written on the heart according to Paul

That OT law as the command "to honor father and mother" as the "First commandment with a promise" within the still valid unit of TEN Eph 6:1-2

Bible details affirmed by "the Baptist Confession of Faith" Section 19 and also the "Westminster Confession of Faith" section 19. so then "not merely SDA" as some would have imagined
 
Upvote 0

pescador

Wise old man
Supporter
Nov 29, 2011
8,530
4,776
✟498,844.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
You use to many pronouns

a) You didn't answer my question: Is "SDA" a branch of Judaism?
b) Again, all Christians are under grace, not OT law.
c) Since you cited Hebrews 8, Hebrews 8:7 reads, "For if that first covenant had been faultless, no one would have looked for a second one." But that first covenant was faulty because it was based on the Law; the second one is based on faith.
c) "You use to many pronouns" is poor English and is irrelevant.
 
  • Useful
Reactions: Danthemailman
Upvote 0

HIM

Friend
CF Ambassadors
Supporter
Mar 9, 2018
3,924
1,729
57
Alabama
Visit site
✟344,616.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
a) You didn't answer my question: Is "SDA" a branch of Judaism?
b) Again, all Christians are under grace, not OT law.
c) Since you cited Hebrews 8, Hebrews 8:7 reads, "For if that first covenant had been faultless, no one would have looked for a second one." But that first covenant was faulty because it was based on the Law; the second one is based on faith.
c) "You use to many pronouns" is poor English and is irrelevant.
You use to many pronouns.
 
Upvote 0

pescador

Wise old man
Supporter
Nov 29, 2011
8,530
4,776
✟498,844.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
You use to many pronouns.

You still haven't given a reasonable reply to my post...

a) You didn't answer my question: Is "SDA" a branch of Judaism?
b) Again, all Christians are under grace, not OT law.
c) Since you cited Hebrews 8, Hebrews 8:7 reads, "For if that first covenant had been faultless, no one would have looked for a second one." But that first covenant was faulty because it was based on the Law; the second one is based on faith.

Also, "You use to many pronouns" is not only ridiculous, it's poor English.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

HIM

Friend
CF Ambassadors
Supporter
Mar 9, 2018
3,924
1,729
57
Alabama
Visit site
✟344,616.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
You still haven't given a reasonable reply to my post...

a) You didn't answer my question: Is "SDA" a branch of Judaism?
b) Again, all Christians are under grace, not OT law.
c) Since you cited Hebrews 8, Hebrews 8:7 reads, "For if that first covenant had been faultless, no one would have looked for a second one." But that first covenant was faulty because it was based on the Law; the second one is based on faith.
All that was said is all that is needed presently.

Also, "You use to many pronouns" is not only ridiculous, it's poor English.
"You use to many pronouns" is acceptable. How would you in a roundabout way tell someone they spend to much time talking about people.

Please note, I am not really asking you.
 
Upvote 0

Clare73

Blood-bought
Jun 12, 2012
24,945
6,054
North Carolina
✟273,781.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
God's graciousness is eternal and unchanging, which he expressed throughout both the OT and the NT. In Psalms 119:29, David wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching Him to obey His law, so that is what it means to be under grace. David said repeatedly said throughout the Psalms that he loved God's law and delighted in obeying it, so if you consider the Psalm to be Scripture, then
you should be praising God that you have the delight of getting to obey His law.
And we should be praising him more that because of their inadequacy in the New Covenant of grace, the Mosaic covenant has been made obsolete (Hebrews 8:13), the ceremonial laws have been abolished (Ephesians 2:15), along with the Aaronic priesthood, the Sinaitic mediator/lawgiver, the sacrifices, etc., so Jesus has rendered the Decalogue inadequate and obsolete in

the grace of his New Covenant commands of Matthew 22:37-41, which enlarge both
the practice and the responsiblity of God's law over and above the Old Covenant Decalogue:
practice - enlarged to love of our neighbor, not just prohibition of sins againt him, and
responsibility - enlarged to as we love ourselves, as committed to his well-being as to our own.

The New Covenant law of grace (1 Corinthians 9:21) is far superior to the Old Covenant Decalogue
in its scope and standard, in its enablement through the grace of the promised New Covenant Holy Spirit and in its mirror of God's grace.

The born-again in the New Covenant of grace are both freer and enabled to do more in the Holy Spirit of grace under its law than were those under the now inadequate and obsolete (Hebrews 8:13) Old Covenant Decalogue.

PTL!
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Soyeong

Well-Known Member
Mar 10, 2015
12,416
4,600
Hudson
✟281,745.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Single
And we should be praising him more that because of their inadequacy in the New Covenant of grace, the Mosaic covenant has been made obsolete (Hebrews 8:13), the ceremonial laws have been abolished (Ephesians 2:15), along with the Aaronic priesthood, the Sinaitic mediator/lawgiver, the sacrifices, etc., so Jesus has rendered the Decalogue inadequate and obsolete in

the grace of his New Covenant commands of Matthew 22:37-41, which enlarge both
the practice and the responsiblity of God's law over and above the Old Covenant Decalogue:
practice - enlarged to love of our neighbor, not just prohibition of sins againt him, and
responsibility - enlarged to as we love ourselves, as committed to his well-being as to our own.

The New Covenant law of grace (1 Corinthians 9:21) is far superior to the Old Covenant Decalogue
in its scope and standard, in its enablement through the grace of the promised New Covenant Holy Spirit and in its mirror of God's grace.

The born-again in the New Covenant of grace are both freer and enabled to do more in the Holy Spirit of grace under its law than were those under the now inadequate and obsolete (Hebrews 8:13) Old Covenant Decalogue.

PTL!

In Hebrews 8:10, the New Covenant still involves following God's law, while the Mosaic Covenant has become obsolete, God's eternal laws did not become obsolete along with it. The only way to abolish the laws for how to testify about God's nature is to first abolish God.

In order to interpret the Bible as referring to ceremonial laws, you first need to show where the Bible refers to that subcategory and lists which laws belong to that category, otherwise you are just inserting your views into the text when Ephesians 2:15 says nothing about ceremonial laws. Ephesians 2:15 is not even referring to any of God's laws because none of God's laws were given for the purpose of creating a dividing wall of hostility. Furthermore, Jesus specifically said that he came not to abolish the law and warned those who would relax the least part of the law or teach others to do the same (Matthew 5:17-19), so you are calling him a liar and disregarding his warning.

In Matthew 22:36-41, Jesus simply answered which of the 600+ Mosaic laws were the greatest, but said nothing to enlarge the practice or responsibility. In Deuteronomy 4:2, it is a sin to add to or subtract from the law, so if Jesus had done as you suggest, then he would have sinned and disqualified himself from being our Savior. However, even if Jesus could have raised the bar without disqualifying himself as our Savior, then that would mean that we should still follow the Mosaic Law plus whatever else he raised it to.

In 1 Corinthians 9:21, Paul said in a parallel statement that he was not outside the Law of God, but under the Law of Christ, so he equated to Law of Moses with the Law of Christ, which makes sense because Christ spent his ministry teaching how to obey the Law of Moses by word and by example.

The New Covenant still involves following the Mosaic Law (Jeremiah 31:33) and in the New Covenant the Spirit also ahs the role of leading us to obey the Mosaic Law (Ezekiel 36:26-27). In 1 John 3:10, those who do not practice righteousness in obedience to the Mosaic Law are not born again.
 
Upvote 0

Clare73

Blood-bought
Jun 12, 2012
24,945
6,054
North Carolina
✟273,781.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
In Hebrews 8:10, the New Covenant still involves following God's law, while the Mosaic Covenant has become obsolete, God's eternal laws did not become obsolete along with it. The only way to abolish the laws for how to testify about God's nature is to first abolish God.

In order to interpret the Bible as referring to ceremonial laws, you first need to show where the Bible refers to that subcategory and lists which laws belong to that category, otherwise you are just inserting your views into the text when Ephesians 2:15 says nothing about ceremonial laws. Ephesians 2:15 is not even referring to any of God's laws because none of God's laws were given for the purpose of creating a dividing wall of hostility. Furthermore, Jesus specifically said that he came not to abolish the law and warned those who would relax the least part of the law or teach others to do the same (Matthew 5:17-19), so you are calling him a liar and disregarding his warning.

In Matthew 22:36-41, Jesus simply answered which of the 600+ Mosaic laws were the greatest, but said nothing to enlarge the practice or responsibility. In Deuteronomy 4:2, it is a sin to add to or subtract from the law, so if Jesus had done as you suggest, then he would have sinned and disqualified himself from being our Savior. However, even if Jesus could have raised the bar without disqualifying himself as our Savior, then that would mean that we should still follow the Mosaic Law plus whatever else he raised it to.

In 1 Corinthians 9:21, Paul said in a parallel statement that he was not outside the Law of God, but under the Law of Christ, so he equated to Law of Moses with the Law of Christ, which makes sense because Christ spent his ministry teaching how to obey the Law of Moses by word and by example.

The New Covenant still involves following the Mosaic Law (Jeremiah 31:33) and in the New Covenant the Spirit also ahs the role of leading us to obey the Mosaic Law (Ezekiel 36:26-27). In 1 John 3:10, those who do not practice righteousness in obedience to the Mosaic Law are not born again.
In the New Covenant, righteousness is defined by Jesus' two commandments which absorb the Mosaic Law in a greater and higher law.

You have chosen to remain in the Old Covenant law rather than come into the New Covenant greater and higher law.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Soyeong

Well-Known Member
Mar 10, 2015
12,416
4,600
Hudson
✟281,745.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Single
In the New Covenant righteousness is defined by Jesus two commandments which absorb the Mosaic Law in a greater and higher law.

You have chosen to remain in the Old Covenant law rather than come into the New Covenant greater and higher law.

The existence of the greatest two commandments implies the existence of other commandments that are not the greatest. Those two commandments are the greatest because they are inclusive of all of the other commandments and all of the other commandments are examples of what it means to correctly obey them. This why Jesus said that they all hang on the greatest two, so the moment you try to just pick up the great two, all of the other commandments hanging with them. In Matthew 22:36-40, Jesus was speaks as someone who was under the Mosaic Covenant to other people who were also under the Mosaic Covenant and he said nothing about making a distention between what we should do under the Mosaic Covenant compared to the New Covenant. Jesus was not in disagreement with what the Father had commanded, so he did not give a higher law and disqualifying himself as being our Savior by sinning in violation of Deuteronomy 4:2. I have said nothing to suggest that we should remain under the Mosaic Covenant. Jesus lived in sinless obedience to the Mosaic Law, he did not hypocritically preach something other than what he practiced, and he did not establish the New Covenant in order to undermine anything that he spent his ministry teaching, but rather the New Covenant still involves following the Mosaic Law (Jeremiah 31:33).
 
Upvote 0