Law Out—Life In!

[WordSword]

It never has, but man's duty to obey remains unchanged. Christ did not come to free us from the law, and if we understand the law properly it is a blessing to live by.

Christians obey more than the Law, they obey the Holy Spirit.

 

[Soyeong]

Christians obey more than the Law, they obey the Holy Spirit.

If Christians should obey more than God's law, then Christians should obey God's law plus whatever else is more than it.

 

[WordSword]

If Christians should obey more than God's law, then Christians should obey God's law plus whatever else is more than it.

I'm sorry, I didn't put it the way it should be said. What I meant by "more than the Law" is something more important than the Law--the Gospel, which is salvation only through Christ and nothing else (no Law or anything).

 

[Soyeong]

I'm sorry, I didn't put it the way it should be said. What I meant by "more than the Law" is something more important than the Law--the Gospel, which is salvation only through Christ and nothing else (no Law or anything).

Christ is God's word made flesh, so it is contradictory to want salvation through Christ instead of through God's word.

 

[WordSword]

Christ is God's word made flesh, so it is contradictory to want salvation through Christ instead of through God's word.

The Law is God's Word, but it is something He has ended for now.

 

[Soyeong]

The Law is God's Word, but it is something He has ended for now.

Christ is God's word made flesh, so God's word can't be ended without also ending Christ.

 

[WordSword]

Christ is God's word made flesh, so God's word can't be ended without also ending Christ.

There is the living Word of God (Jhn 1:1); and there is the written Word of God. Not the same, but nice analogy.

 

[Fervent]

Christians obey more than the Law, they obey the Holy Spirit.

And where do you think the law came from?

 

[Fervent]

The Law is God's Word, but it is something He has ended for now.

Ended? Then why did Christ say that the one who breaks these commands, or teaches another to do so shall be the least in the kingdom?

 

[Soyeong]

There is the living Word of God (Jhn 1:1); and there is the written Word of God. Not the same, but nice analogy.

The word of God is not the written Bible, but the truth that it contains, and Jesus is the living embodiment of that truth. For example, Jesus is the living embodiment of the command to love our neighbor, so the command to love our neighbor could not be ended without also ending Jesus.

 

[WordSword]

Ended? Then why did Christ say that the one who breaks these commands, or teaches another to do so shall be the least in the kingdom?

The Lord Jesus taught three different dispensations simultaneously: the Law was still in effect while He lived and so continued to teach it; while He was also preparing others for the coming Gospel and introducing others it; along with things that Christians would receive in Him concerning the next life.

 

[Fervent]

The Lord Jesus taught three different dispensations simultaneously: the Law was still in effect while He lived and so continued to teach it; while He was also preparing others for the coming Gospel and introducing others it; along with things that Christians would receive in Him concerning the next life.

Yet somehow nobody noticed til the 19th century...

 

[Soyeong]

What was the point of Christ's ministry if he establish the New Covenant in order to end what he spent his ministry teaching? Why does to make sense to you to think that Jesus taught contradictory things?

 

[WordSword]

What was the point of Christ's ministry if he establish the New Covenant in order to end what he spent his ministry teaching? Why does to make sense to you to think that Jesus taught contradictory things?

He spent the majority of His time teaching the Gospel and all that came with it.

 

[Soyeong]

He spent the majority of His time teaching the Gospel and all that came with it.

It's not clear to me why you reject Matthew 4:15-23 as describing the Gospel message that Jesus spent the majority of his time teaching. In any case, he set a sinless example of how to walk in obedience to the Mosaic Law, and we are told to follow his example (1 Peter 2:21-22). In any case, to the extent that he spent his ministry teaching his followers to obey the Mosaic Law by word and by example, what was the point of doing that if he establish the New Covenant for the purpose of undermining doing that?

 

[WordSword]

In any case, to the extent that he spent his ministry teaching his followers to obey the Mosaic Law by word and by example, what was the point of doing that if he establish the New Covenant for the purpose of undermining doing that?

Because the Law was still in effect at the time. Thus if Jews are to obey the Law while in effect, then when Jesus established the new covenant they are to obey it then.

 

[atpollard]

Christ came to take away sin, not the law. The issue with the law is the Jews looked to it as a means to be made righteous, when it was never meant to be such a thing. It was, and remains, a law for a people who have already been redeemed. Christ's death did not take away the law, it took away the curse which was the power of sin.

Technically, we gentiles NEVER HAD the Law. Our father's were never delivered from Egypt and we were never given tablets of stone (plus the hundreds of other rules) to obey. We had no Temple where the Glory of God dwelt. There was no ram or Lamb or Bull to be offered by any Priest appointed by God to atone for OUR sins. We joined creation in groaning under the curse and waiting for a savior.

You will not find the words on Jesus lips: "Now the gentiles can share in the Law, too."

 

[WordSword]

It's not clear to me why you reject Matthew 4:15-23 as describing the Gospel message that Jesus spent the majority of his time teaching. In any case, he set a sinless example of how to walk in obedience to the Mosaic Law, and we are told to follow his example (1 Peter 2:21-22). In any case, to the extent that he spent his ministry teaching his followers to obey the Mosaic Law by word and by example, what was the point of doing that if he establish the New Covenant for the purpose of undermining doing that?

"Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us" (Tit 3:5).

 

[Fervent]

Technically, we gentiles NEVER HAD the Law. Our father's were never delivered from Egypt and we were never given tablets of stone (plus the hundreds of other rules) to obey. We had no Temple where the Glory of God dwelt. There was no ram or Lamb or Bull to be offered by any Priest appointed by God to atone for OUR sins. We joined creation in groaning under the curse and waiting for a savior.

You will not find the words on Jesus lips: "Now the gentiles can share in the Law, too."

Paul's words in Romans 1-3 disagree with you. "They become a law unto themselves," we may not have been a part of God's covenant people but it has always been God's law that men are judged against.

 

[atpollard]

but it has always been God's law that men are judged against.

… and condemned rather than justified. (Romans 3:10-12)