Law abolished = New Covenant

[Gary987]

Soyeong. Well said friend

 

[Sidon]

But you’re not understanding for some reason. Our fruit will include law-keeping,

there is "fruit" and then there is "spiritual fruit".
One you do.
One God does through you if you are born again, and not just water baptized.

 

[Sidon]

A new commandment I give to you. To love the lord your God with all your heart soul mind and strength. And to love your neighbor as yourself. In this all the law is fulfilled.

If you keep the !st one, then God will be the reason you keep the 2nd one.

 

[Sidon]

You claimed that salvation is independent of "doing things", yet Titus 2:11-14 essentially describes our salvation as being trained by grace to do things. .

There is no verse in the bible, quran', hadith, or anywhere else that uses the phrase "trained by grace".
Im not sure if you invented that one, or found it in a commentary.

We are not trained by Grace.
We are "saved by Grace and that is not of yourselves, it is the GIFT of God".

You are TRAINED by God's Spirit, if you are born again and not just water baptized.
God's Grace is the Blood of Jesus.
It does not "train" you, it REDEEMES you.

 

[fhansen]

there is "fruit" and then there is "spiritual fruit".
One you do.
One God does through you if you are born again, and not just water baptized.

Baptism is just the historic practice, received as commanded by Jesus, that the Christian chrurch has observed from time immemorial. It's known as the "sacrament of faith" because, as long as faith compels and accompanies it, it's a first and formal public profession of that faith, which God has provided. Observing the law is one kind of spiritual fruit, as the moral law, itself, is spiritual according to Paul in Romans 7. Again, observed without needing to ever hear it. But still necessary to do it.

 

[Sidon]

Baptism is just the historic practice, received as commanded by Jesus, .

Paul said that Jesus sent him "Not to water baptize".
Does this mean he never baptized anyone, exactly as CHRIST never water baptized anyone?
You knew that?
So, why did Paul tell you that "Christ sent ME not to WATER Baptize"?
Its so that people who are religious dont get confused with people who are born again.
See, the religious believe in water.
The Born again, believe in Christ.
Only Jesus Saves.
Water need not apply.

Also If you have a New Testament, read "the Acts of the Apostles".
Every time someone is water baptized, until the last chapter that is 28. this happens after they BELIEVED, first.
See, God saves not based on immersion, but based on "Faith is counted as righteousness".
"As many as BELIEVE in Me, i give unto them Eternal life".
"All that BELIEVE IN JESUS, shall be saved".
Water need not apply.

Read Acts 8. Philip and the Eunuch.
The Eunuch sees some water and wants to get in it and be Baptized by immersion.
Phillip is happy to oblige, under one CONDITION< and its the same one that Paul teaches.
"If you have BELIEVED with all your heart, FIRST".....then you may be water baptized.
See that?
See that BELIEVING? God sees that and SAVED THE EUNUCH, same as He saves us the same way.
After we BELIEVE on Jesus, and are BORN AGAIN....then we go get in the water.
The water, follows our Salvation.
It does not cause it.

 

[fhansen]

Paul said that Jesus sent him "Not to water baptize".
Does this mean he never baptized anyone, exactly as CHRIST never water baptized anyone?
You knew that?
So, why did Paul tell you that "Christ sent ME not to WATER Baptize"?
Its so that people who are religious dont get confused with people who are born again.
See, the religious believe in water.
The Born again, believe in Christ.
Only Jesus Saves.
Water need not apply.

Also If you have a New Testament, read "the Acts of the Apostles".
Every time someone is water baptized, until the last chapter that is 28. this happens after they BELIEVED, first.
See, God saves not based on immersion, but based on "Faith is counted as righteousness".
"As many as BELIEVE in Me, i give unto them Eternal life".
"All that BELIEVE IN JESUS, shall be saved".
Water need not apply.

Read Acts 8. Philip and the Eunuch.
The Eunuch sees some water and wants to get in it and be Baptized by immersion.
Phillip is happy to oblige, under one CONDITION< and its the same one that Paul teaches.
"If you have BELIEVED with all your heart, FIRST".....then you may be water baptized.
See that?
See that BELIEVING? God sees that and SAVED THE EUNUCH, same as He saves us the same way.
After we BELIEVE on Jesus, and are BORN AGAIN....then we go get in the water.
The water, follows our Salvation.
It does not cause it.

So Jesus gets baptized Himself, and tells Nicodemus a man must be born of water and Spirit, and in Matt 16 that anyone who believes and is baptized has life and He tells is disciples,
“Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

And He says that if we love Him we’ll do as He commands, and the ancient churches since day one have understood and practiced accordingly as attested by early church fathers as well. Everyone got baptized whether that was part of Paul’s personal mission or not. So we just do it; we don’t call the shots.

And yes, of course, ad infinitum ad nauseam, we’re justified by faith. Baptism is an expression and profession of that faith -as stated in more ways than one in the post you responded to-and then for some reason nonetheless wrote as if you were proclaiming it for the first time. And even Paul adds something, the need for profession, when He says in Rom 10:9,
“… that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

And even then we must understand what faith means; its more than just rote belief, it implies action, which is what James was getting at, action compelled by faith rather than action -or works-compelled by self-righteousness.
“The only thing that counts is faith working through love.” Gal 5:6

And so Paul can also rightly say in Rom 8:12-13,
“Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.”

Jesus tells us in Matt 6:14-15,
“For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive yours.”

Again, it’s ok to have obligation-to do the right thing, in order to be saved- and that implies more than faith, which is why, one might presume, the Holy Spirit was sure to keep Paul from ever saying that we’re saved by faith alone even though faith is the progenitor of it all, in response to grace. So there’s no reason to pit the theology of Paul against any other theology-they’re all saying the same thing.

 

[Sidon]

So Jesus gets baptized Himself, and tells Nicodemus a man must be born of water and Spirit, .

Jesus said...."born of water".

So, that is a 1st BIRTH
That is your first one.
That is when your Mother's water Broke, and the bag full of fluid, that you were in, delivered you into this world.
So, that is the first birth BY or OF water.

Now, Jesus said.....You must be born again.
Why did he say AGAIN? ???????
Its because you have already been born of water, when your mother's "water" broke.

So, that one, brought you into the world all WET.

The 2nd Birth, is not an earthly birth.
Its a Spiritual New Birth, that God causes, inside you, when your dead spirit is BIRTHED as a "new Creation" in Christ.

 

[fhansen]

So, that is a 1st BIRTH
That is your first one.
That is when your Mother's water Broke, and the bag full of fluid, that you were in, delivered you into this world.
So, that is the first birth BY or OF water.

Sheez- more contrived trite nonsense. No ECF, no serious scholar, no early church taught or believed this. Best if you didn't teach it either-or anything else until you get squared around on the faith. The New Covenant is not just about forgiveness of sin for those who believe. It's about God truly becoming the God of a people, and within that vital relationship providing them the means, the righteousness, the love, to finally accomplish what the old could not. Again, when you understand the faith better, you'll agree with the testimony of a wise believer who summed up the gospel, the teachings of Jesus, John, James, Paul, et al, best,
"At the evening of life we shall be judged on our love."

 

[Sidon]

Sheez- more contrived trite nonsense. No ECF, no serious scholar, no early church taught or believed this.

You are referring to "early church fathers" or the Catholic idea of faith.
I dont have that.
I have Paul's Theology.
I Teach what came before your "early church fathers".
See, Paul came first.
I teach Him.

 

[fhansen]

You are referring to "early church fathers" or the Catholic idea of faith.
I dont have that.
I have Paul's Theology.
I Teach what came before your "early church fathers".
See, Paul came first.
I teach Him.

You teach You.

 

[Sidon]

You teach You.

I teach Pauline Theology.

 

[Gary987]

You are referring to "early church fathers" or the Catholic idea of faith.
I dont have that.
I have Paul's Theology.
I Teach what came before your "early church fathers".
See, Paul came first.
I teach Him.

We teach Christ. Not Paul