Latin Mass compared to Divine Liturgy of the East

[Markie Boy]

Questioning here - not debating. I went to a Latin Mass as opposed to the typical Catholic Novus Ordo, and it's like a different religion.

Besides not knowing the language, it's like you as mostly a spectator while the clergy does everything. The sermon is in English, so that helps, as are the readings. But outside that, you watch them do things and speak in language you don't know - it's very odd to me.

The other thing is, if I understand, you are basically watching them perform a sacrifice to God?

Is Eastern Divine Liturgy similar to this?

 

[FenderTL5]

Questioning here - not debating. I went to a Latin Mass as opposed to the typical Catholic Novus Ordo, and it's like a different religion.

Besides not knowing the language, it's like you as mostly a spectator while the clergy does everything. The sermon is in English, so that helps, as are the readings. But outside that, you watch them do things and speak in language you don't know - it's very odd to me.

The other thing is, if I understand, you are basically watching them perform a sacrifice to God?

Is Eastern Divine Liturgy similar to this?

First, I've never been to a Latin Mass so direct comparison/contrast is beyond my knowledge.
I can say that the Divine Liturgy is the work of the people, it is very participatory; almost like what we used to call in the protestant churches as a "responsive reading," where a line is given from the clergy and is responded by the congregant.
In our parish, it's more like three or four segments all responding to one another. There's the clergy, the chanters, the choir (during some services but not all) and the congregant. It's not just verbal either, all of the senses are engaged if one participates fully in the Divine Liturgy.
It really is a beautiful thing.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Questioning here - not debating. I went to a Latin Mass as opposed to the typical Catholic Novus Ordo, and it's like a different religion.

Besides not knowing the language, it's like you as mostly a spectator while the clergy does everything. The sermon is in English, so that helps, as are the readings. But outside that, you watch them do things and speak in language you don't know - it's very odd to me.

The other thing is, if I understand, you are basically watching them perform a sacrifice to God?

Is Eastern Divine Liturgy similar to this?

for us you are participating in the saving work of Christ. you are not simply watching a sacrifice, the laity participate uniquely but fully in the sacrifice.

 

[TheLostCoin]

OP, I can say as someone who has been to both that you participate in the Latin Mass as much as the Byzantine Divine Liturgy.

The idea that the Divine Liturgy isn't a spectacle just because you stand for two hours is absurd on its face. Okay, sure, you make the sign of the cross repeatedly and prostate occasionally, but guess what - you do the same in the Latin Mass with making the sign of the cross and going from standing to sitting to kneeling. Most lay people shut up and watch while the priest and the choir sing what's necessary, with only like 3 - 5 lay people singing which only annoy the choir.

The only difference is theological, in that the Eastern Orthodox liturgy requires at least two people, the Catholic Church does not. Other than that, both have a "theological" justification that the laypeople have a unique, spiritual role in the Sacrifice, even if they just stand there.

 

[All4Christ]

OP, I can say as someone who has been to both that you participate in the Latin Mass as much as the Byzantine Divine Liturgy.

The idea that the Divine Liturgy isn't a spectacle just because you stand for two hours is absurd on its face. Okay, sure, you make the sign of the cross repeatedly and prostate occasionally, but guess what - you do the same in the Latin Mass with making the sign of the cross and going from standing to sitting to kneeling. Most lay people shut up and watch while the priest and the choir sing what's necessary, with only like 3 - 5 lay people singing which only annoy the choir.

The only difference is theological, in that the Eastern Orthodox liturgy requires at least two people, the Catholic Church does not. Other than that, both have a "theological" justification that the laypeople have a unique, spiritual role in the Sacrifice, even if they just stand there.

I would say that the description you gave here of Orthodox participation is not a universal description. It is not the same as my experience. I am not familiar with the Latin traditional mass, though I am somewhat familiar with the Western Orthodox celebration of the Tridentine mass. The local Western Orthodox church has similar participation with their service.

 

[Brighid]

In my limited experience with Orthodox liturgy, it depends on where you worship. In our parish, (Antiochian) everyone or nearly everyone is singing/chanting with the choir and very involved throughout the service. All is in English except a few words and a short song, which are easy to learn.

When I attend services at the Greek monastery, the monks say everything and I understand almost nothing. I say the Jesus prayer. There is still a spiritual participation, I never feel that I'm just observing.

 

[SeraphimSarov]

The Tridentine Mass and the Divine Liturgy are as participatory as you, the believer, make them. I've never been to a Latin Mass where there wasn't a missal available to help newcomers pray along. There aren't always material available at Orthodox churches, but most prayer books have the Divine Liturgy and the most common changeable parts so you can follow along. Just because people aren't singing along doesn't mean they aren't participating. That's terribly judgmental.

 

[buzuxi02]

Questioning here - not debating. I went to a Latin Mass as opposed to the typical Catholic Novus Ordo, and it's like a different religion.

Besides not knowing the language, it's like you as mostly a spectator while the clergy does everything. The sermon is in English, so that helps, as are the readings. But outside that, you watch them do things and speak in language you don't know - it's very odd to me.

The other thing is, if I understand, you are basically watching them perform a sacrifice to God?

Is Eastern Divine Liturgy similar to this?

Liturgy means work of the people. You are not a spectator but a participant unless you are a non-Orthodox or have been excommunicated. The Liturgy is centered around the Eucharist you are an active participant in the Last Supper across space and time. If you never commune then you are obviously on the outside looking in. Like being transported to the last support but just peeking through a window as an observer or spectator. In liturgy your joining in at the table It's regardless of language as Spirit overcomes it. When the Slavs seeking a religion arrived in Constantinople, they wrote back that they did not know whether they were in heaven or earth. And if there was God certainly he was there. They did not understand Greek

 

[JamesTheJust]

OP, I can say as someone who has been to both that you participate in the Latin Mass as much as the Byzantine Divine Liturgy.

The idea that the Divine Liturgy isn't a spectacle just because you stand for two hours is absurd on its face. Okay, sure, you make the sign of the cross repeatedly and prostate occasionally, but guess what - you do the same in the Latin Mass with making the sign of the cross and going from standing to sitting to kneeling. Most lay people shut up and watch while the priest and the choir sing what's necessary, with only like 3 - 5 lay people singing which only annoy the choir.

The only difference is theological, in that the Eastern Orthodox liturgy requires at least two people, the Catholic Church does not. Other than that, both have a "theological" justification that the laypeople have a unique, spiritual role in the Sacrifice, even if they just stand there.

Have you been to a church with no pews? How does that change your perception of how 'active vs passive' the congregation is during the liturgy?