Late-summer Arctic sea ice could disappear by 2040

[Petros2015]

Q & A: Volume of Water after Freezing | Department of Physics | University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign

Q: what is the % increase in volume when water changes from liquid to solid
- patrick struzynski (age 45)
East Aurora,n.y. USA

A: Dear Patrick,

The answer to your question is that, in general, a given volume of liquid water at room temperature will increase in volume by about 9.05% after freezing. Most materials do the opposite, that is, the solid form of most substances is more dense than their liquid form.

===

So, 100 cubic meters of ice = about 109 cubic meters of water when it all melts.
It's also interesting to note that ice floats on water, so I'm not sure how that factors into the equation in terms of potential sea level rise once it's all gone. I couldn't easily find a 'total volume of arctic sea ice' number.

Some links to scientific organizations tracking facts on arctic sea ice.

SOTC: Sea Ice | National Snow and Ice Data Center

Polar Science Center » PIOMAS Arctic Sea Ice Volume Reanalysis

Seasonally, a portion of it melts and then recovers. What we are seeing is less and less recovery and time goes on I think.

 

[Nithavela]

So, 100 cubic meters of ice = about 109 cubic meters of water when it all melts.

Actually it's the opposite. Water expands when it freezes.

 

[Petros2015]

Oh. Doh... Good thing I'm not in charge, lol. So 100 cubic meters of sea ice is about 92 cubic meters of sea water.

 

[grasping the after wind]

Why is it so difficult to answer what the difference between water at 0°C and 1°C? Do you understand why that temperature is different from one between 10°C and 11°C despite having the same difference in temperature? Considering we're talking global temperature, do you see why the 0°C to 1°C change may be important? Another factor to consider is there's a reason why shoveling a walkway partially and leaving behind some snow will still result in that snow melting and evaporating, do you know why that occurs? And do you understand why that is more of a problem that is analogous to what happens at the North Pole?

Everyone is aware of the difference between O and 1 degree centigrade and what happens because of that as it pertains to H2O but that is not analogous to one degree difference in global temperature as the earth is not a ball of H2O and neither the global temperature nor the Arctic has not been a constant 0 Centigrade but now becoming 1 Centigrade due to atmospheric CO2. The climate that produces Arctic ice is not a constant 0 Centigrade. The idea that Arctic ice will disappear due to a one degree difference in global temperature is plain silly. For the ice to completely disappear you would need a huge difference in Arctic temperature no matter what the global temperature difference might be. As for ice on a sidewalk, there are no sidewalks under the Arctic Ice. What happens to ice sitting atop either concrete or asphalt is very different than what happens to ice floating on water.

 

[grasping the after wind]

Q & A: Volume of Water after Freezing | Department of Physics | University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign

Q: what is the % increase in volume when water changes from liquid to solid
- patrick struzynski (age 45)
East Aurora,n.y. USA

A: Dear Patrick,

The answer to your question is that, in general, a given volume of liquid water at room temperature will increase in volume by about 9.05% after freezing. Most materials do the opposite, that is, the solid form of most substances is more dense than their liquid form.

===

So, 100 cubic meters of ice = about 109 cubic meters of water when it all melts.
It's also interesting to note that ice floats on water, so I'm not sure how that factors into the equation in terms of potential sea level rise once it's all gone. I couldn't easily find a 'total volume of arctic sea ice' number.

Some links to scientific organizations tracking facts on arctic sea ice.

SOTC: Sea Ice | National Snow and Ice Data Center

Polar Science Center » PIOMAS Arctic Sea Ice Volume Reanalysis

Seasonally, a portion of it melts and then recovers. What we are seeing is less and less recovery and time goes on I think.

If one lets an ice cube melt it does not raise the level of the water in the glass. Ice melt from Arctic sea ice would probably not cause much of a sea level rise. AFAIK the only rise that sea ice would cause would come from some relation to any of the sea ice that might be connected to a land mass in such as way as to be currently cancelling out the effects of buoyancy. It is ice melt from glaciers on land not ice floating on water that would cause the sea level to rise.

 

[Petros2015]

If one lets an ice cube melt it does not raise the level of the water in the glass. Ice melt from Arctic sea ice would probably not cause much of a sea level rise. AFAIK the only rise that sea ice would cause would come from some relation to any of the sea ice that might be connected to a land mass in such as way as to be currently cancelling out the effects of buoyancy. It is ice melt from glaciers on land not ice floating on water that would cause the sea level to rise.

Good point. Oh well, I expect it is all melting anyway, so we'll see what the impact and change is first hand. I feel like it's probably too late to stop the train, so we might as well settle back and enjoy the ride.

https://www.theverge.com/2018/5/10/...e-albedo-effect-climate-change-global-warming

 

[grasping the after wind]

Good point. Oh well, I expect it is all melting anyway, so we'll see what the impact and change is first hand. I feel like it's probably too late to stop the train, so we might as well settle back and enjoy the ride.

https://www.theverge.com/2018/5/10/...e-albedo-effect-climate-change-global-warming

Seriously doubt we ever had any possibility of stopping the train. Its been in motion for centuries after all.

 

[SummerMadness]

Everyone is aware of the difference between O and 1 degree centigrade and what happens because of that as it pertains to H2O but that is not analogous to one degree difference in global temperature as the earth is not a ball of H2O and neither the global temperature nor the Arctic has not been a constant 0 Centigrade but now becoming 1 Centigrade due to atmospheric CO2. The climate that produces Arctic ice is not a constant 0 Centigrade. The idea that Arctic ice will disappear due to a one degree difference in global temperature is plain silly. For the ice to completely disappear you would need a huge difference in Arctic temperature no matter what the global temperature difference might be. As for ice on a sidewalk, there are no sidewalks under the Arctic Ice. What happens to ice sitting atop either concrete or asphalt is very different than what happens to ice floating on water.

Increasing the global temperature does have a significant effect. How many places around the world experience routine flooding that they didn't experience 25 years ago. That flooding is due to ice at the caps melting. The melting of sea ice is important because that ice acts as a reflector, unlike the ocean. There is no sidewalk under the Arctic Ice demonstrates a fundamental misunderstanding on your part; when the sidewalk is covered, the sunlight is reflected, when you remove some of that snow, the area around that removed snow experiences more melting because the sunlight is now absorbed. Likewise, ocean water absorbs more sunlight in contrast to sea ice, thus contributing the decline of sea ice in the North Pole. Sea ice melt is not about flooding, but it is about the increase in temperature that is precipitated by sunlight not being reflected by the ice, which contributes to changes in climate.

 

[SummerMadness]

The people fighting against any reform want to burn everything so that we can reach the too late to do anything stage, allowing them to throw up their hands and ask, "Why should we change anything if it's too late?" That's what this whole game is about, they want their money now and changing policy means they can't exploit resources as much as possible to benefit their wallet.

 

[Aryeh Jay]

Think of all the new beach front properties that the Trump Empire can build…

 

[Occams Barber]

The effects of the Arctic sea ice melt are complex involving changes to sea and air temperatures in turn affecting ocean currents and atmospheric behaviour. The results can be counter intuitive. As an example; atmospheric warming can lead to spells of extreme cold weather in North America and Europe/Siberia.

The mechanism for this is known as the Polar Vortex. The Vortex is a stream of fast-moving air which circles round the North Polar region effectively trapping masses of cold air like a retaining wall. Higher air temperatures at lower latitudes cause this wind band to be pulled south. This induces a ‘wobble’ in the vortex.

Global warming results in higher temperatures at the Pole which weakens the Vortex. Higher temperatures at lower latitudes also create weak low pressure areas which ‘suck’ the vortex southward. The ‘wobble’ becomes more extreme and allows masses of cold air to spill south over North America and/or the European/Siberian land mass. This was the probable cause of last year’s extreme winter weather events in the Northern Hemisphere.

Perversely, Global Warming can lead to extreme cold weather events. That, by the way, is part of the reasoning behind changing the term 'Global Warming' to 'Climate Change' - to avoid confusion about the actual impacts of warming.

OB

 

[Nithavela]

The people fighting against any reform want to burn everything so that we can reach the too late to do anything stage, allowing them to throw up their hands and ask, "Why should we change anything if it's too late?" That's what this whole game is about, they want their money now and changing policy means they can't exploit resources as much as possible to benefit their wallet.

Personally I think there are cleaner and less impactfull ways of wiping out humanity, but as long as it works, I'll take it.