Last Night's Debate

[JimR-OCDS]

Isn't that Charlie Baker who has said he isn't voting for Trump?

I don't know, but it was probably before Biden/Harris became the Democrats nominee.

But then, Trump called Baker a RINO, so it may still hold true

 

[Sparagmos]

Biden believes the Green New Deal is a crucial framework for meeting the climate challenges we face. It powerfully captures two basic truths, which are at the core of his plan:

Plan for Climate Change and Environmental Justice | Joe Biden

That’s Biden’s way of trying not to alienate progressives while also not embracing the details of the GND. He’s saying it’s a good “framework” and trying to make his plan look as similar as possible. But as someone who is 100% in support of the GND I can tell you that we aren’t satisfied with Joe’s plan, it doesn’t go as far.

You can do a side by side comparison of Biden’s plan and the GND and see that his plan does not include many of the GND proposals. And this is largely because the DNC voted not to adopt the GND. It’s far too progressive for the DNC.

 

[Albion]

That’s Biden’s way of trying not to alienate progressives while also not embracing the details of the GND.

I agree.

He’s saying it’s a good “framework” and trying to make his plan look as similar as possible. But as someone who is 100% in support of the GND I can tell you that we aren’t satisfied with Joe’s plan, it doesn’t go as far.

That's what I'd expect, but the idea--widely circulated since the debate--that his remarks will alienate the way-out "progressives" in his Party strikes me as silly.

They know full well that Biden has to pretend in order to win. And they also know that he'll follow orders IF he wins.

So for them to be upset at his "weasel words" during the debate seems far-fetched.

 

[Sparagmos]

I agree.


That's what I'd expect, but the idea--widely circulated since the debate--that his remarks will alienate the way-out "progressives" in his Party strikes me as silly.

They know full well that Biden has to pretend in order to win. And they also know that he'll follow orders IF he wins.

So for them to be upset at his "weasel words" during the debate seems far-fetched.

I’m not sure what you mean. I do agree he doesn’t really need to be worried at this point in alienating progressives.

But are you saying once elected he will cave to them? While I hope he does, that will depend on how Congress changes. The current Dem leadership doesn’t support the GND. If more progressives like AOC are elected, perhaps we can move the party to the left.

 

[Albion]

I’m not sure what you mean. I do agree he doesn’t really need to be worried at this point in alienating progressives.

That's basically it. They know that he has to strike a moderate pose during a Presidential debate, and also that it doesn't mean anything at all as concerns their chances of getting the GND if he wins.

But are you saying once elected he will cave to them?

He caved when choosing a running mate, so what you are suggesting is probably right. We could be fooled, but I don't think the chances are very good of that happening.

While I hope he does, that will depend on how Congress changes.

Yes, that's probably right..

 

[Sparagmos]

That's basically it. They know that he has to strike a moderate pose during a Presidential debate, and also that it doesn't mean anything at all as concerns their chances of getting the GND if he wins.


He caved when choosing a running mate, so what you are suggesting is probably right. We could be fooled, but I don't think the chances are very good of that happening.


Yes, that's probably right..

Got it.

Re Kamala Harris: He didn’t cave to progressives by choosing her. She’s a freaking cop and doesn’t have an impressive record at all. Caving would have been Bernie.

 

[Albion]

Got it.

Re Kamala Harris: He didn’t cave to progressives by choosing her. She’s a freaking cop and doesn’t have an impressive record at all. Caving would have been Bernie.

I realize that that's a sore point with the true believers, but it's in her past now and she is the most radical member of the US Senate, according to her voting record. While she can be engaging, and he did promise a woman of color, he could pretty much have nailed down victory by nominating a VP who wouldn't alarm the voters who are worried about what a Biden presidency might bring.

Despite all of that, he went with a first term Senator who has a temper and didn't do at all well when facing the nation's voters during the primary season. It looks very much like he did what he was told to do.

 

[Aldebaran]

That’s Biden’s way of trying not to alienate progressives while also not embracing the details of the GND. He’s saying it’s a good “framework” and trying to make his plan look as similar as possible. But as someone who is 100% in support of the GND I can tell you that we aren’t satisfied with Joe’s plan, it doesn’t go as far.

Good. But it would still bankrupt the country. That's going too far.

You can do a side by side comparison of Biden’s plan and the GND and see that his plan does not include many of the GND proposals. And this is largely because the DNC voted not to adopt the GND. It’s far too progressive for the DNC.

Give it another 4 years, and then it will be considered mainstream. That's what naturally happens when the Left goes further and further to the Left. What's considered extreme now will soon be mainstream, just as what they consider mainstream now was considered extremist not even 10 years ago. Rioting and looting in the streets, and multi-trillion dollar per month handouts by the government being current examples.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Got it.

Re Kamala Harris: He didn’t cave to progressives by choosing her. She’s a freaking cop and doesn’t have an impressive record at all. Caving would have been Bernie.

I disagree!

Bernie isn't a Democrat and Biden would never have chosen him.

 

[Aldebaran]

Got it.

Re Kamala Harris: He didn’t cave to progressives by choosing her. She’s a freaking cop and doesn’t have an impressive record at all. Caving would have been Bernie.

A "cop" who doesn't think what's going on in the streets should stop.

 

[Sparagmos]

I realize that that's a sore point with the true believers, but it's in her past now and she is the most radical member of the US Senate, according to her voting record. While she can be engaging, and he did promise a woman of color, he could pretty much have nailed down victory by nominating a VP who wouldn't alarm the voters who are worried about what a Biden presidency might bring.

Despite all of that, he went with a first term Senator who has a temper and didn't do at all well when facing the nation's voters during the primary season. It looks very much like he did what he was told to do.

I won’t argue her voting record because I haven’t researched that claim. I know it’s been disputed.

As for being told what to do, I’ve never thought the Presidential nominee actually chooses the V.P., I assume it’s always a party decision. I have no idea what the true power structure at the top of the Dem party is but Biden has been around so long and was V.P. so my guess is he is one of the decision makers, not a puppet.

 

[Sparagmos]

A "cop" who doesn't think what's going on in the streets should stop.

Still a cop. Of course she’s not going to say people shouldn’t protest.

 

[Sparagmos]

I disagree!

Bernie isn't a Democrat and Biden would never have chosen him.

He ran as a Democrat, so he’s a democrat. What is it you disagree with? I didn’t imply that Biden would have chosen him. Just said that would be what “caving” to progressives looks like.

 

[Sparagmos]

Give it another 4 years, and then it will be considered mainstream.

Awesome! We call that progress

 

[Aldebaran]

Still a cop. Of course she’s not going to say people shouldn’t protest.

Of course not. Especially as her fellow cops are still being injured and killed. She's never served a single day as an actual cop on the street. In reality, the "Top Cop" label she gives herself is a false one: Kamala Harris Calls Herself the 'Top Cop' but Has She Ever Been a Police Officer?

 

[Aldebaran]

Awesome! We call that progress

And that's why you're losing support from people who call themselves democrats. That's the part I call progress.

 

[Albion]

I won’t argue her voting record because I haven’t researched that claim. I know it’s been disputed.

What's been disputed is the characterization of her recorded, with some saying radical but others moderate and still others using some other term. The voting record itself is hard to dispute, however.

As for being told what to do, I’ve never thought the Presidential nominee actually chooses the V.P., I assume it’s always a party decision.

It always was so...until a few presidents ago. Now both parties defer to the Presidential nominee and the convention delegates simply rubber-stamp it.

 

[Hank77]

I don't know, but it was probably before Biden/Harris became the Democrats nominee.

But then, Trump called Baker a RINO, so it may still hold true

I'm probably wrong about that. I remember seeing his name listed with Larry Hogan's and I know Hogan didn't vote for Trump in 2016.

 

[Hank77]

That’s Biden’s way of trying not to alienate progressives while also not embracing the details of the GND. He’s saying it’s a good “framework” and trying to make his plan look as similar as possible. But as someone who is 100% in support of the GND I can tell you that we aren’t satisfied with Joe’s plan, it doesn’t go as far.

You can do a side by side comparison of Biden’s plan and the GND and see that his plan does not include many of the GND proposals. And this is largely because the DNC voted not to adopt the GND. It’s far too progressive for the DNC.

Bernie has said that Biden's plan is different than his plan. Joe's plan is on his website.

 

[Hank77]

It always was so...until a few presidents ago. Now both parties defer to the Presidential nominee and the convention delegates simply rubber-stamp it.

John McCain wanted Joe Liberman as his running mate. The party chose Palin. Cheney vetted her in Alaska early on in April. It was in the local Alaska newspaper when he came to town.