Lake of Fire

martymonster

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Believers will go through a fire that will burn away the dross, etc.

For the unrepentant, they are condemned to the lake of fire for eternity, where there is no grace, etc.

That burning away of the dross that you speak of, happens in this life, not the lake of fire.
 
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martymonster

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We were already dead once. What's wrong with a replay for those who refuse the meet the qualifications of the Kingdom?

Yeah, I think you've missed the point. What I'm saying is, Christ is the first fruit, and he has first fruits, but then there is the rest of the harvest.
 
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brinny

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Yes hell (the grave) and death are cast into the fire, needed no more, needed no more just like the unrepentant. Hell and death can't exist forever more. We are all resurrected. Only those not in the book meet a second death. Rational thinking and what scripture says should override tradition of certain churches.

What is written in God's Word overrides man.

There is no more death. It has been destroyed.

Therefore at the judgement, those condemned will not be annihilated or "die".

There is no death, even though they may cry out for it.

They will be conscious for eternity in this state.

Check out the video.
 
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brinny

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brinny said:
Believers will go through a fire that will burn away the dross, etc.

For the unrepentant, they are condemned to the lake of fire for eternity, where there is no grace, etc.
That burning away of the dross that you speak of, happens in this life, not the lake of fire.
Believers are not ever in the lake of fire.

That is eternal judgement for those who rejected God's grace and forgiveness and hated God.
 
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brinny

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brinny said:
Yes, they are eternal.

So are we.
No we aren't. Only those of the Kingdom live after resurrection. The rest are forgotten.
Not ONE is overlooked or forgotten.

Even those who died will be called forth. Some to everlasting torment in the lake of fire that never ends and some to the bless-ed joining of the Father, where He will dry all tears, for there will no longer be pain, suffering, grief, or death. For death was destroyed and all the old things have passed away..
 
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FineLinen

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Believers are not ever in the lake of fire.

That is eternal judgement for those who rejected God's grace and forgiveness and hated God.

The ONLY individuals who are not "hurt" by the 2nd Death, AKA The Lake of all lakes, are those who are defined as an overcomer in the Revelation.

The ONLY ones
 
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timothyu

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Not ONE is overlooked or forgotten.
After the resurrection the unrepentant are. Cast out to be no more. Eternal life is for those choosing the tree of life in the Kingdom only. It is not attainable in the lake.
 
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brinny

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brinny said:
Believers are not ever in the lake of fire.

That is eternal judgement for those who rejected God's grace and forgiveness and hated God.

The ONLY individuals who are not "hurt" by the 2nd Death, AKA The Lake of all lakes, are those who are defined as an overcomer in the Revelation.

The ONLY ones

:scratch:
 
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brinny

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brinny said:
Not ONE is overlooked or forgotten.
After the resurrection the unrepentant are. Cast out to be no more.
They will never be "no more", for all eternity.

They will be conscious of their eternal torment.

For eternity.

There is no escape, no annihilation, no relief, no grace or mercy.

They are in this inexplicable and conscious state for eternity.
 
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timothyu

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They will never be "no more", for all eternity.

They will be conscious of their eternal torment.

For eternity.

There is no escape, no annihilation, no relief, no grace or mercy.

They are in this inexplicable and conscious state for eternity.


That is a doctrine of man using a human tradition of fear. The Kingdom of God works the opposite way.
 
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FineLinen

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That burning away of the dross that you speak of, happens in this life, not the lake of fire.

Dear Marty: I know not the extent of the Father's fire in His mighty dealing with each of us in this life. I believe it may range from miniscule to full blaze. Of one thing (maybe 2) I am certain, what is not accomplished in the nasty now and now, awaits further refining in the Blaze of all blazes, the consuming fire of theion and theioo rooted in Theos.
 
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brinny

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You won't convince that of those who hope there is suffering and torture, or who cannot fathom anyone wanting an alternate way of life to mankind's way.

No one, including God Himself HOPES for anyone to be condemned to such inexplicable suffering. THat is why God's grace calls out to each heart as we speak, through His Holy Spirit.

'Tis best to heed the warning.

One day, and no one knows when, it will be too late.

Tragic.
 
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timothyu

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No one, including God Himself HOPES for anyone to be condemned to such inexplicable suffering. THat is why God's grace calls out to each heart as we speak, through His Holy Spirit.

'Tis best to heed the warning.

One day, and no one knows when, it will be too late.

Tragic.

So what purpose would be served in eternal suffering. No refinement there as all purpose is removed. That would be a wasted effort and just spiteful. something man, not God would do. God is more efficient, let alone loving and compassionate.
 
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brinny

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brinny said:
They will never be "no more", for all eternity.

They will be conscious of their eternal torment.

For eternity.

There is no escape, no annihilation, no relief, no grace or mercy.

They are in this inexplicable and conscious state for eternity.
That is a doctrine of man using a human tradition of fear. The Kingdom of God works the opposite way.
It IS fearful to be condemned to hell.

That is why God's grace calls even now to hearts, through His Holy Spirit.

'Tis best to heed His warning before it is too late.

There is coming a day that the door of grace will be closed by God Himself.
 
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renniks

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“As the new heavens and the new earth that I make will endure before me,” declares the Lord, “so will your name and descendants endure. 23From one New Moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, all mankind will come and bow down before me,” says the Lord. 24“And they will go out and look on the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; the worms that eat them will not die, the fire that burns them will not be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind.”

This passage from Isaiah contains both beautiful promises for Israel and her descendants and also dire warnings for God’s enemies. Jesus uses some of the same language about the undying worm when he speaks about hell.

Mark 9:43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:

48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

This wasn’t’ just an occasional theme in Jesus’ teaching.
Matt 7: 13 Jesus said, “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

Matt 10:28 Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

Matt 25:1-13 “At that time the kingdom of heaven will be like ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom. Five of them were foolish and five were wise. The foolish ones took their lamps but did not take any oil with them. The wise ones, however, took oil in jars along with their lamps. The bridegroom was a long time in coming, and they all became drowsy and fell asleep. “At midnight the cry rang out: ‘Here’s the bridegroom! Come out to meet him!’ “Then all the virgins woke up and trimmed their lamps. The foolish ones said to the wise, ‘Give us some of your oil; our lamps are going out.’ “ ‘No,’ they replied, ‘there may not be enough for both us and you. Instead, go to those who sell oil and buy some for yourselves.’ “But while they were on their way to buy the oil, the bridegroom arrived. The virgins who were ready went in with him to the wedding banquet. And the door was shut. “Later the others also came. ‘Lord, Lord,’ they said, ‘open the door for us!’ “But he replied, ‘Truly I tell you, I don’t know you.’ “Therefore keep watch, because you do not know the day or the hour.

Luke 13:22-30 Then Jesus went through the towns and villages, teaching as he made his way to Jerusalem. Someone asked him, “Lord, are only a few people going to be saved?” He said to them, “Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to. Once the owner of the house gets up and closes the door, you will stand outside knocking and pleading, ‘Sir, open the door for us.’ “But he will answer, ‘I don’t know you or where you come from.’ “Then you will say, ‘We ate and drank with you, and you taught in our streets.’ “But he will reply, ‘I don’t know you or where you come from. Away from me, all you evildoers!’ “There will be weeping there, and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but you yourselves thrown out. People will come from east and west and north and south, and will take their places at the feast in the kingdom of God. Indeed there are those who are last who will be first, and first who will be last.”

I could go on for several more pages of verses where Jesus talked about hell and judgment.
 
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brinny

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brinny said:
No one, including God Himself HOPES for anyone to be condemned to such inexplicable suffering. THat is why God's grace calls out to each heart as we speak, through His Holy Spirit.

'Tis best to heed the warning.

One day, and no one knows when, it will be too late.

Tragic.
So what purpose would be served in eternal suffering. No refinement there as all purpose is removed. That would be a wasted effort and just spiteful. something man, not God would do. God is more efficient, let alone loving.
just spiteful.
If God was spiteful, He would be a sinner, and He would need a Savior just as we do.

He is HOLY and JUST.

He is PERFECTLY just.
 
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FineLinen

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You won't convince that of those who hope there is suffering and torture, or those who cannot fathom anyone wanting an alternate way of life to mankind's way.

Dear Timothy: If one could convince another of what only a personal encounter with the Living God can and will accomplish, it will surely crumble into dust and ashes!

There is no alternate way past the flaming swords swirling in every direction!
 
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