Lack of finances=lack of faith?

Is not having money or having little money a sign of weak faith or no faith?

  • No, money has no bearing on who you are as a Christian

  • No, the poorer actually have a deeper faith than the rich

  • Yes, weak faith.

  • If you are a real Christian you cannot be poor.


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LouisBooth

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"It tries to tell people that there is something holy in being poor. It is false religion. "

LOL. wrong-o :) Most of the early church was poor in terms of wealth in those days. some of the best christians I have read about in times past were dirt poor. Money has no bearing on your relationship with God at all. why in the world do you think Christ said it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle then for a rich man to get into heaven?

"can you channel all your money to me then? thanks."

Will do andrew ;) Hope you enjoy it I'll live it up in heaven with my "extra" rewards ;)
 
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somtime having money dosn't mean you a better christain bt somtimes t does. see pepole wihout somtimesare ashamed tgoto hurch because when that pat comes around you have pepole actully countng he moey you put in the tray.i had a pastor ask the church to give a specific amount to him and he had everyone walk up one by one and give it to the decoens in front of the whole church. and when i did not approch he exclaimed that i was poor and did not have all that everyone else has i have not been back since. so in some ways we do look at our pockets. you cant lean th word of GOD sitting at home looking at T.V. :sigh: :pray:  :help:
 
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Originally posted by tericl2
The key word in your post is "serve". We cannot serve both God and money. Serving money is the same as idolatry.
[\quote]

You are bringing your own definition of serve. Serve does not mean worship.

A pure follower of Christ is not only concerned with the spiritual either. This is a ridiculous supposition and an even more ridiculous statement. In the Bible the book of James, chapter 2, vv 15 and 16 says "Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to him, "Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed," but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it?"

It is spiritual to help one another. Spirituality means living a righteous life and searching for the Kingdom of God Matthew 6:33.

How do you propose we would accomplish this exhortation if we are concerned strictly with the spiritual? According to the Bible Jesus fed the 5,000 and the 4,000. He didn't tell them to go away and be blessed. He met their physical needs. Why did Jesus heal people of their illnesses if we are to be only concerned for the spiritual? There are hundreds of other examples of God being concerned about our physical needs and that they be met. You only need to read the Bible to find them out!

Healing and miracles were mainly done to show the power of God so that people can have faith.  Read Matthew Chapter 6 to get a better understanding of the meaning of spirituality..
 
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Originally posted by reAsonX
i guess you are wearing spiritual clothes, spiritual shoes, eating spirit burgers and typing this on a spirit computer...

As long as you are in the physical world, you cannot be truly spiritual, but we should strive to live like Christ. There is no pure follower of Christ on earth. People who were close to living a Christ like life were John the baptist and Paul. I hope you are now getting the picture.

 
 
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Originally posted by TAYTAY
somtime having money dosn't mean you a better christain bt somtimes t does. see pepole wihout somtimesare ashamed tgoto hurch because when that pat comes around you have pepole actully countng he moey you put in the tray.i had a pastor ask the church to give a specific amount to him and he had everyone walk up one by one and give it to the decoens in front of the whole church. and when i did not approch he exclaimed that i was poor and did not have all that everyone else has i have not been back since. so in some ways we do look at our pockets. you cant lean th word of GOD sitting at home looking at T.V. :sigh: :pray:  :help:

Read beatitudes Luke Chapter 6, Money is the opposite of Christianity

We are also not required to contribute as a show off. You have a wrong pastor who is only interested in his salary.
 
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Andrew

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"Those were not Christians since they are in the old Testament. There is a difference between Judaism and Christianity. The problem with most "Christians" is that they are bibliansÊwho only follow the verses they like (the verses that soothe their weakness). They ignore almost everything in the Gospels.A Christian is oneÊwho follows the teachings of Jesus Christ."

Excuse me, they were justified by the same thing we are justified by -- faith!
also are you saying God has changed his mind? That he blesses these people with riches but somehow withdraws it from us who are in a superior covenant.

Ro 8:32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

arent we the seed of Abraham? Arent Abraham's promises ours too?

and you forgot, prosperity is part of the atonement. just as healing is. there's no denying that. whether a Christian accepts this or not doesnt change the fact that its been done 2000 years ago.
 
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Originally posted by reAsonX
There is a religious spirit in this that attempts to burden others with poverty and lack. It tries to tell people that there is something holy in being poor.  It is false religion.  

So you are saying Christianity is false religion. By the way Christianity means the doctrine of Jesus Christ teachings. Don't confuse Christianity (teachinbgs of Christ) with its common usage. Generally, "Christians" especially the pentecostals are biblians who follow the verses of the bible that they like. They usually ignore almost everything in the gospels.

  
 
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Originally posted by Andrew
"Those were not Christians since they are in the old Testament. There is a difference between Judaism and Christianity. The problem with most "Christians" is that they are bibliansÊwho only follow the verses they like (the verses that soothe their weakness). They ignore almost everything in the Gospels.A Christian is oneÊwho follows the teachings of Jesus Christ."

Excuse me, they were justified by the same thing we are justified by -- faith!
also are you saying God has changed his mind? That he blesses these people with riches but somehow withdraws it from us who are in a superior covenant.

Ro 8:32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

arent we the seed of Abraham? Arent Abraham's promises ours too?

and you forgot, prosperity is part of the atonement. just as healing is. there's no denying that. whether a Christian accepts this or not doesnt change the fact that its been done 2000 years ago.

 

If you are a Christian discuss Christianity not Judaism.
 
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Andrew

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"There is aÊreligious spirit in this that attempts to burden others with poverty and lack. It tries to tell people that there is something holy in being poor.Ê It is false religion."

I'd AMEN THAT!!! Add to that the spirit of shame that has moved into churches too. ie apologise on Jesus' behalf for being so blessed. or to feel embarassed or apologetic or shameful when your neighbour sees you blessed with much.

i hope none of us here who has been blessed by the Lord materially with abundance will ever apologise on Jesus' behalf!
 
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Originally posted by Andrew
"If you are a Christian discuss Christianity not Judaism."

Why dont you rip out your OT then? Why read the OT if its only abt Judaism?

BTW: What does spiritualscientist mean? are you Christian Science?

I dont need OT, the Gospels are enough for me. I am not in Christian science, but believe spirituality is real and scientific.
 
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Originally posted by Andrew
"There is aÊreligious spirit in this that attempts to burden others with poverty and lack. It tries to tell people that there is something holy in being poor.Ê It is false religion."

I'd AMEN THAT!!! Add to that the spirit of shame that has moved into churches too. ie apologise on Jesus' behalf for being so blessed. or to feel embarassed or apologetic or shameful when your neighbour sees you blessed with much.

i hope none of us here who has been blessed by the Lord materially with abundance will ever apologise on Jesus' behalf!

 

How do you prove Jesus is the one who has given you material wealth? This is contradictory to His teachings.
 
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Andrew

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"How do you prove Jesus is the one who has given you material wealth?"

Well for one, who do you think blessed Abraham and David in the OT? the devil? no it says clearly the Lord blessed Abraham with riches..... So isnt this "Lord" the same Lord you and I serve, who is Jesus? or do you think there are 2 Lords here?

Who do you think put the diamonds, gold and precious stones in this earth? Satan? Did he create them? I wld think it was God. And who do you think God created them for? His children or children of the devil?

When a Christian gets a good job, good salary, gets a new car to drive his family around, a nice neat home to stay in, good food to eat, do you then expect the Christian to give thanks to the devil or attribute it all the lady luck (lucifier), or wld you expect him to give thanks to the Lord, who gives us good gifts?

quote: "I dont need OT, the Gospels are enough for me. "

The fact that you can say this shows me there's really something wrong here.

Lu 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

Why wld the risen Lord talk to his disciples abt HIM BEING HIDDEN IN THE OT writings if it wasnt important. If his disciples needed to hear it, dun you think we need it too?
 
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LouisBooth

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"Well for one, who do you think blessed Abraham and David in the OT? "

And who do you think made Joseph stay in prison for doing the right thing? Wealth is NO indication of someone's spiritual walk, it actually can be decieving, for a rich christian man can also be a false christian and a very very bad sinner. :)
 
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Originally posted by Andrew
"How do you prove Jesus is the one who has given you material wealth?"

Well for one, who do you think blessed Abraham and David in the OT? the devil? no it says clearly the Lord blessed Abraham with riches..... So isnt this "Lord" the same Lord you and I serve, who is Jesus? or do you think there are 2 Lords here?


The type of god described in OT seems to have almost similar intelligence and emotions to humans, in essence he is just a big daddy in the sky. Thats why I don't like to discuss OT.

Who do you think put the diamonds, gold and precious stones in this earth? Satan? Did he create them? I wld think it was God. And who do you think God created them for? His children or children of the devil?
 

Matthew 4
 8  Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain, and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and the glory of them;

9  and he said to him, "All these I will give you, if you will fall down and worship me."

 

You may also look into your bible and find out where Jesus said His Kingdom is not of this world and the ruler of the world is the devil.


When a Christian gets a good job, good salary, gets a new car to drive his family around, a nice neat home to stay in, good food to eat, do you then expect the Christian to give thanks to the devil or attribute it all the lady luck (lucifier), or wld you expect him to give thanks to the Lord, who gives us good gifts?

You only need the basic necessities to sustin yourself in living a spiritual life. This is different from riches.

quote: "I dont need OT, the Gospels are enough for me. "

The fact that you can say this shows me there's really something wrong here.

[/quote]

According to you. You don't define what is right. Sounds like you are a biblian who does not need the Gospels.


Lu 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

Why wld the risen Lord talk to his disciples abt HIM BEING HIDDEN IN THE OT writings if it wasnt important. If his disciples needed to hear it, dun you think we need it too?

This does not imply you ignore the Gospels. There would have been no point of Jesus preaching if all what He wanted were people to read the old testament
 
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LouisBooth

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"There would have been no point of Jesus preaching if all what He wanted were people to read the old testament"

Umm..I very much disagree with this statement. He always refered back to the OT when preaching. The bible is a WHOLE book not a 2 part book.
 
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Originally posted by LouisBooth
"There would have been no point of Jesus preaching if all what He wanted were people to read the old testament"

Umm..I very much disagree with this statement. He always refered back to the OT when preaching. The bible is a WHOLE book not a 2 part book.

But as a Christian you need to follow Jesus teachings not the bible. You will find many contradictions in what Jesus preached and the old testament. So what are you going to follow? For example the issue of wealth that we are discussing here. In the old testament the righteous were rewarded with material wealth, but riches are an obstacle to spirituality according to Jesus.
 
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LouisBooth

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"Jesus teachings not the bible. "

Umm..they are the bible :) All of the law, prophets, etc.hang on them. There are no contradictions between what Christ preached and the OT. I'll follow christ, who fufilled the OT law in my place. :) Now the law is a guide as what it was ment to be. the love to wealth is the obstacle to spirituality according to Christ, not the money itself.
 
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Originally posted by LouisBooth
"Jesus teachings not the bible. "

Umm..they are the bible :) All of the law, prophets, etc.hang on them. There are no contradictions between what Christ preached and the OT. I'll follow christ, who fufilled the OT law in my place. :) Now the law is a guide as what it was ment to be. the love to wealth is the obstacle to spirituality according to Christ, not the money itself.

 

It is easy for you to sing there is no contradiction, simply because you treat the bible as an idol and don't want to face facts.

Go to the books of Moses and find out how many of the laws that you obey, You may discover it is less than 10%, So there is no point of you misusing words here on how you obey the laws.

 

Define what you mean by love of wealth. Every rich person loves wealth, otherwise why is he/she keeping it and yet poor people all over the world are dying of hunger? This is lack of compassion.

Riches also makes you love the world and life, but Jesus said whoever loves life will lose it. Jesus was also against love of the world since its ruler is the devil.

Riches makes one proud. Pride is the opposite of humility. Humility may be the most important virtue. 

Next time  read the Gospels in detail so that we can have a discussion
 
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