Lack of finances=lack of faith?

[JohnR7]

Originally posted by SnuP
  We don't want God to stop us from fornicating, but we want God to stop us from catching aids.

God has been dealing with me about this sort of thing also. He is pretty much telling me that it is just not as effective to ask to be delivered from the consequences of sin. Rather ask Him to deliver us from the sin, and then there will be no consequences.

We see a lot of people delivered from Aids in Africa. But only after they repent and change their thinking and get themselves right with God. It is no problem for God to deliver us from the consequences, but He wants to deliver us from the sin also.

 

[JohnR7]

Originally posted by Dewjunkie
I have complete faith that God could easily heal my wife's paralysis. 

I believe that sometime before Jesus returns for His Bride that everyone who is going up to be with Him will be healed.

God sometimes works on the heart, mind and soul first before He will give health to the body. The soul that sinneth shall die, so He wants us to be perfect there first. Even if the body were to die, He can raise the body from dead. In fact, those who are dead in Christ will come up out of the grave first, and we who are alive when He returns will follow them.

 

[ALWEamen]

Going back to the topic...
lack of finances=lack of faith?

I would say yes because...
From reading the bible, I get the picture that the early believers shared many things with one another. Finances was something richer believers would share with poorer believers. And I think that Jesus Himself wants His believer to help out their brothers and sisters materially. If that were to happen, there would not be a poor Christian atleast in America.

Now that does not mean a poor Christian is a bad Christian. It only means that he/she is not experiencing the Christian faith to the fullest degree where there is love, care, and the sharing of material possession. So yes, lack of finances for a Christian equals lack of authentic Christian faith in the community.

 

[SnuP]

Originally posted by ALWEamen
Going back to the topic...
lack of finances=lack of faith?

I would say yes because...
From reading the bible, I get the picture that the early believers shared many things with one another. Finances was something richer believers would share with poorer believers. And I think that Jesus Himself wants His believer to help out their brothers and sisters materially. If that were to happen, there would not be a poor Christian atleast in America.

Now that does not mean a poor Christian is a bad Christian. It only means that he/she is not experiencing the Christian faith to the fullest degree where there is love, care, and the sharing of material possession. So yes, lack of finances for a Christian equals lack of authentic Christian faith in the community.

Good point.

 

[Dewjunkie]

Originally posted by ALWEamen


Now that does not mean a poor Christian is a bad Christian. It only means that he/she is not experiencing the Christian faith to the fullest degree where there is love, care, and the sharing of material possession. So yes, lack of finances for a Christian equals lack of authentic Christian faith in the community.

So you're saying that when I was a child, and my father was starting a church from scratch in Oregon, and we lived in hand-me-downs and on food stamps my dad didn't have faith?  We were dirt poor by American standards for a long time, but his church went from 0 to 125 members in 3 years.  But because we didn't have possessions, he didn't have faith?  Please. 

 

[SnuP]

I believe that he was saying that the christian community around your family didn't have faith, not your father.

 

[JohnR7]

Originally posted by Andrew
That's what my me and m church believes too -- to be those that are "alive and REMAIN" for the rapture!

REMAIN implies health, healing and warding off death

The Bible does more then imply. There are some very detailed passages that talks about the Bride. Solomon says she is: (Song 6:10) "Fair as the moon, Clear as the sun, Awesome as an army with banners?"

Paul says she will be glorious without spot, blemish or wrinkle. She is a overcomer, living a life of victroy as a conquer in Christ. We are told that no weapon formed against her will prosper.

If they marvelled at the early church, how much more will they be amazed with the works of the church that will be alive when Jesus returns.
 


 

 

[JohnR7]

Originally posted by didaskalos
Why did it happen? 

Why? Because you were not being careful. My son broke his arm three times before he learned how to be careful. That really means learning how to listen to God when He warns you not to do something.

Psalm 34:19-20  Many are the afflictions of the righteous: but the Lord delivereth him out of them all. [20] He keepeth all his bones: not one of them is broken.


 

 

[Andrew]

"So you're saying that when I was a child, and my father was starting a church from scratch in Oregon, and we lived in hand-me-downs and on food stamps my dad didn't have faith?"

I believe that there is faith for different things eg faith for healing, faith for finances, faith for witnessing, faith for a good marriage etc. Yes faith is faith, the same thing, but we tend to exercise faith in varying degrees in diff areas of our lives.

So if a Christian is poor all the time then if generally means:
1. He doesnt know abt God's economics (ignorance about what God's Word says about properity and hence no faith for prosperity becos faith cometh by hearing but if you dont hear anything then faith cant come)
2. He knows about it but cant really believe it works (no real faith in this area).

for example, I have more faith in the area of healing becos I have studied the scriptures regarding healing, read many good books on the topic, heard many good sermons on the topic etc etc -- and i continue to do so. Faith cometh by hearing and hearing and hearing.....not by having heard. An esp if i fall sick, i wld need to hear even more abt healing.

On the other hand, i wld say I have little faith in the area of finances/God's prosperity system cos I havent done much homework and 'hearing' in this area.

 

[Dewjunkie]

Originally posted by Andrew

I believe that there is faith for different things eg faith for healing, faith for finances, faith for witnessing, faith for a good marriage etc. Yes faith is faith, the same thing, but we tend to exercise faith in varying degrees in diff areas of our lives.

So if a Christian is poor all the time then if generally means:
1. He doesnt know abt God's economics (ignorance about what God's Word says about properity and hence no faith for prosperity becos faith cometh by hearing but if you dont hear anything then faith cant come)
2. He knows about it but cant really believe it works (no real faith in this area). 

At the time, my dad had a bachelor's degree in theology and religion (he now has 24 years experience along with it). so I am pretty sure he was aware of faith and what the Bible said about it.  We were just poor.  Not a lot of money in starting churches.  Not a lack of faith, or ignorance, just small monthly stipends from the general church office that didn't stretch far.    

Faith is Faith.  Period.  Either you have faith in God and His ability to heal, provide, cure, save, etc.; or you don't.  It doesn't mater how much you know of scripture or how much you've studied.  By your standards, illiterate people, mentally disabled people, or people who just aren't Biblically wise would never have their prayers answered, regardless of how true their faith was.   I doubt that God works that way.  If you have true faith in Him, he will answer your prayers according to His will.  Not yours. Sometimes, God's answer to prayer is no.  It doesn't mean that your faith isn't good enough or educated enough, but that God decided that what you want isn't the best thing.

My daughter is 2.  She has complete faith in me that I love her completely, and will allow her no harm.  She's never read it anywhere, she's never been to discussions about it, she just has faith.  As much as I would like to, I cannot stop all bad things from happening to her.  If I could, I probably wouldn't, because she would never know adversity or the challenges of overcoming sadness or pain, or the lessons to be learned by them.  God is the same way.  He is not going to give in to everything we ask for, because we would be spoiled, wouldn't appreciate what we have, and would never learn any of life's lessons.  Our Heavenly Father sometimes has to love with "tough love".  We need to have childlike faith that He knows what is best, and regardless of His answer to our prayers, He loves us.        

 

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

Originally posted by Dewjunkie
At the time, my dad had a bachelor's degree in theology and religion (he now has 24 years experience along with it). so I am pretty sure he was aware of faith and what the Bible said about it.  We were just poor.  Not a lot of money in starting churches.  Not a lack of faith, or ignorance, just small monthly stipends from the general church office that didn't stretch far.    

Faith is Faith.  Period.  Either you have faith in God and His ability to heal, provide, cure, save, etc.; or you don't.  It doesn't mater how much you know of scripture or how much you've studied.  By your standards, illiterate people, mentally disabled people, or people who just aren't Biblically wise would never have their prayers answered, regardless of how true their faith was.   I doubt that God works that way.  If you have true faith in Him, he will answer your prayers according to His will.  Not yours. Sometimes, God's answer to prayer is no.  It doesn't mean that your faith isn't good enough or educated enough, but that God decided that what you want isn't the best thing.

My daughter is 2.  She has complete faith in me that I love her completely, and will allow her no harm.  She's never read it anywhere, she's never been to discussions about it, she just has faith.  As much as I would like to, I cannot stop all bad things from happening to her.  If I could, I probably wouldn't, because she would never know adversity or the challenges of overcoming sadness or pain, or the lessons to be learned by them.  God is the same way.  He is not going to give in to everything we ask for, because we would be spoiled, wouldn't appreciate what we have, and would never learn any of life's lessons.  Our Heavenly Father sometimes has to love with "tough love".  We need to have childlike faith that He knows what is best, and regardless of His answer to our prayers, He loves us.        

 

While you will most likely not give in to your daughters every whim I can pretty much guarantee that you would never purposely give her a disease just so she can learn a lesson. 

While it is true that faith is faith, we are stronger in some areas than others.  And just because I personally have known the Lord for at least 45 years in no way means I know and understand completely everything there is to know about Him.  God is very big. 

The most knowledgeable and healthy person in the world can fall short in knowing God fully and in understanding of everything about His ways.  Lack of faith or great faith has nothing to do with finances or health or smarts.

No one is saying we should never experience times of difficulty but to be continuously in difficulty and never coming out from under it is an issue.  It's the 23rd Psalm that says, "The Lord is my Shepherd, I shall not want".

 

[Dewjunkie]

Quaffer, I agree with you, and don't think I ever stated that God purposely makes us suffer. I certainly am not any sort of Biblical scholar, in fact far from it. But, I cannot bring myself to believe that if your prayers aren't answered, you don't have faith. I know a lot of beautiful, devout, strong Christian people who faithfully love the Lord, give Him praises, pray for healing. Yet, they continue to suffer with terminal illness. I don't even begin to think they lack faith, but that God has a purpose for them and is using their suffering for His greater good. And sometimes, the ultimate healing is death. If I were to suffer with Cancer, I would rather go to Heaven and be with my Lord. I'm not quite sure what (other than my family members, who I look forward to seeing in Heaven eventually anyway) would be worth staying on Earth for.

 

[LouisBooth]

Amen dewjunkie, amen!!!

 

[Andrew]

"At the time, my dad had aÊbachelor's degree in theology and religion (he now has 24 years experience along with it). so I am pretty sure he was aware ofÊfaithÊand what the Bible said about it."

How do you explain the fact that there are a lot of Bible scholars out there who arent believers. It's one thing to know, quite another to act on it. You can love God and serve God faithfully all your life, but if you know nothing abt healing then when sickness comes, you'll still fall sick and perhaps die. Unless God shows you in his Word what belongs to you, and you act on it in faith.

"Faith is Faith.Ê Period.Ê Either you have faith in God andÊHis ability to heal, provide, cure, save, etc.; or you don't."

That's simply not true. Most Christians have faith they are saved. Period. But majority dont have faith God heals, provides and protects. That's a plain observable fact of churches.

"It doesn't mater how much you know of scripture or how much you've studied."

Oh yes it does -- "My people are destroyed for a lack of knowledge" not lack of faithfulness or sincerity.

"By your standards, illiterate people, mentally disabled people, or people who just aren't Biblically wise would never haveÊtheir prayers answered, regardless of how true their faith was."

Jesus said as long as you have faith the size of one tiny grain of mustard seed -- it'll work. Yes you dont need to be a Bible scholar to have working faith but no matter what, God honours his Word. The Word must be involved. He has put his word above his name. Actually, it is the simple folks who have simple childlike faith but the educated folks who have all sorts of hang-ups abt healing, provision, etc.

Questions like sometimes God's answer to healing is "no" or sometimes he doesnt heal becos so and so did not get healed plainly show igonorance abt God's Word on healing. Healing is already part of the atoning work of Christ. There's no running away from that. To say the above is to say that sometimes God does not want to save, or that God did not bare all our sins becos so and so did not get saved in a Gospel rally.

 

[Dewjunkie]

Originally posted by Andrew


"It doesn't mater how much you know of scripture or how much you've studied."

Oh yes it does -- "My people are destroyed for a lack of knowledge" not lack of faithfulness or sincerity.

"By your standards, illiterate people, mentally disabled people, or people who just aren't Biblically wise would never haveÊtheir prayers answered, regardless of how true their faith was."

Jesus said as long as you have faith the size of one tiny grain of mustard seed -- it'll work. Yes you dont need to be a Bible scholar to have working faith but no matter what, God honours his Word. The Word must be involved. He has put his word above his name. Actually, it is the simple folks who have simple childlike faith but the educated folks who have all sorts of hang-ups abt healing, provision, etc.

So, you're saying that God contradicts himself?  People are destroyed for a lack of knowledge, but as long as they have faith the size of a mustard seed....?  You are contradicting yourself.

Read 1 Peter 5:10 again.  It clearly says that God's people will suffer, and god will work it out according to His plan.  His plan may not be tomorrow, or next year.  God's people may suffer for years until they are healed.  It doesn't mean they don't have faith.  It means GOD is doing HIS WILL in HIS TIME.     

 

[Andrew]

"So, you're saying that God contradicts himself?Ê People are destroyed for a lack of knowledge, but as long as theyÊhave faith the size of a mustard seed....?Ê You are contradicting yourself."

you know as well as i do both are in scripture. God does not contradict himself.

"Read 1 Peter 5:10 again.Ê It clearly says that God's people will suffer, and god will work it out according to His plan.Ê His plan may not be tomorrow, or next year.Ê God's people may suffer for years until they are healed.Ê It doesn't mean they don't have faith.ÊÊIt means GOD is doing HISÊWILL in HIS TIME."

Yes there is some truth there but do you honestly believe that God wld want one of his children paralysed from neck down to suffer even one more minute of it? If you had all the power in the universe, wld you want you little one to suffer one more minute in pain?

I believe in God's timing too, but not years and years, and on a case to case basis. not an across the board thing.
yes the woman with the issue of blood suffered 12 years, the bent over old lady 16/18 years but that's becos Jesus was not on the scene yet. Once he was there and they reached out in faith, it was immediate. Today we have Jesus, who has already healed via the cross.

 

[LouisBooth]

"Period. But majority dont have faith God heals, provides and protects. That's a plain observable fact of churches."

There is on different types of faith. That is discussed no where in the bible and you have to do some real big stretching to even consider it.

"Yes there is some truth there but do you honestly believe that God wld want one of his children paralysed from neck down to suffer even one more minute of it? "

If it 1. saves someone else through their perserverance or testimonty? YES
2. if it strengthens their walk and relationship with him in a way that couldn't be otherwise accomplished? YES!!! These are just 2 reasons off the top of my head where its VERY approprate.

 

[SnuP]

Another reason that people remain sick or don't see God's blessing is because they are asking God to do something that He has already done.

Would you say, "God heal me of this demon"?
Because most do not understand what is causing the problem they just ask God to take care of it. But if God has given you the authority to take care of it then there is nothing that He can do, it up to you. That's why we need to seek God on the cause of the problem and the solution to it rather then just saying you take care of it. If sin is causing the problem, then rebuke the sin. If a demon is causing the problem then rebuke the demon. Most sicknesses are caused by demons harrassing someone. And usually those demons have been given permission to be there by the presence of sin. So remove the sin, rebuke the demon, repent for not following God, and apprihend your healing. It usually that simple. How do yor get there? Just ask God.

 

[LouisBooth]

"Another reason that people remain sick or don't see God's blessing is because they are asking God to do something that He has already done."

i agree, that sometimes happens, though not always. Sometimes God says no flat out.

"Most sicknesses "

KEY PHRASE

 

[SnuP]

Originally posted by LouisBooth
"Another reason that people remain sick or don't see God's blessing is because they are asking God to do something that He has already done."

i agree, that sometimes happens, though not always. Sometimes God says no flat out.

"Most sicknesses "

KEY PHRASE

If most sicknesses are caused by demons the just rebuke it.