Lack of finances=lack of faith?

[spiritualscientist]

Originally posted by Quaffer

 

Not all rich people are as you describe.  Are you maybe too lazy to work hard and support yourself? Your family?  Etc?
Who are you moochin' off?  If they did not have money how would you survive?

Now you are simply turning to personal attacks. Stick to our discussion. You have nothing from the Gospel to back the rich and I have shown you several scriptures which you did not reply.

Jesus read the OT.  What makes you think you're better than He.

Jesus did not read OT in order to understand the meaning of the Kingdom of God. This is already written in His heart. He only read when preaching to people as a reference. He himself did not need OT.

That's not true.  It is written "Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: (2 Peter 1:10)

Are you saying you are incapable of sinning? So what you mean you no longer need forgiveness, and hence the Lord's prayer is not applicable to you?

Next time try to speak the Gospel. Jesus said everything we need to know about spirituality.

No one is saying blessed are the rich in money.  We're saying that God's children are blessed.  Those who "abide in Him and His Word abides in them, can ask for anything, and it will be done".  Jesus said that.  WE ARE BLESSED! Spiritually and physically.  Jesus did a WHOLE job not a HALF job.

Jesus cannot contradict himself. I gave you scriptures relating to richness, I dont know why you are denying them. You are rich physically in God's eyes if you are healthy and meet the basic needs.

Jesus was not saying you're blessed because your poor.

You are now saying the opposite of what is written. Let me remind you
Luke 6:20 "Blessed are you poor"

Jesus was telling them they were not poor, they were blessed.

Let me remind you again "Blessed are you poor"

 You may look poor on the outside but your blessed.  The kingdom of God is yours!  That's pretty good news to the poor.

True, but this is not what we are arguing about.

 

[spiritualscientist]

Originally posted by LouisBooth
yup, THAT'S WHY YOU HAVE TO STUDY IT. Why do you think he said mediate on these words, he was refering to SCRIPTURE. Jesus memorzied scripture, why can't you?

You can meditate on the Lord prayer. This does not mean meditating on the whole bible. Sure I can read the scripture but it is not required otherwise how do you expect the illiterate people to be saved? Jesus said the Kingdom of god is hidden to the learned.

Okay, then I would say that its not the bible that you believe, but yourself. The bible is not a buffet to pick and choose what you like, sorry.

I believe in God not bible. The bible is just a reference.

 

Who cares? He did so I do. The bible was ment to be read as a WHOLE book and understood in light of other scripture. so this point is quite irrelevant.

Imagine that you were there when Jesus was preaching how would you have interpreted what He said. Know that you don't have a bible for you to refer to other scriptures in order to interpret what He is saying. When Jesus was preaching He expected people to understand what He is saying. He was not talking to the bible.

You cannot say the Kingdom of God can only be known by people who have read the bible from A to Z. This is theology, and remember Pharisees were experts in the Scripture.

 

[SnuP]

Do you believe that Jesus is God?

 

[spiritualscientist]

Originally posted by SnuP

Umm, running over does not mean the exact same, rather it means more.

 

Luke 18
 22  And when Jesus heard it, he said to him, "One thing you still lack. Sell all that you have and distribute to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me." 
 23  But when he heard this he became sad, for he was very rich. 
 24  Jesus looking at him said, "How hard it is for those who have riches to enter the kingdom of God! 
 25  For it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God." 


Matt 6:19-21
19 "Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal.
20 "But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys, and where thieves do not break in or steal;
21 for where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.


 

That is interesting, I didn't get that idea from anyone. I arrived at the conclussion by my self. I guess that means that I must be listening to the Spirit of God.

So you base the Spirit of God on others? How do you prove others are correct.

Also I said nothing about the good news only being preached to the poor. If you read the rest of the gospels then you will see that Jesus says to preach the gospel to all men, and He says that the kingdom of God belongs to all that believe on Him.

This is what you said

"It is the same as Jesus saying that He was sent to preach the goodnews to the poor."

Let me ask you a simple question. Do you believe that Jesus is God? [/B]

Why ask the question you can tell from what I an writing here. Jesus in the spiritual was God but in the physical was man.

 

[LouisBooth]

"You can meditate on the Lord prayer. "

no no, he says mediate on the scripture, not just that particular passage.

"illiterate people to be saved? "

Reading to them. They still have to study it. They just need more help, that's all.

"The bible is just a reference. "

Yes, and it is his word, thus we shouldn't pick and choose what we like and discard the rest as you say we should.

"Know that you don't have a bible for you to refer to other scriptures in order to interpret what He is saying"

Yes they did, its call Old testiment, and he refered to it often, as did pretty much all the other NT writers.

 

[spiritualscientist]

Originally posted by LouisBooth
"You can meditate on the Lord prayer. "

no no, he says mediate on the scripture, not just that particular passage.

show me the verse. I don't see why I need to meditate about plagues in Egypt, or Samson and Delilah, or Sodom and Gomorrah etc. I only need to meditate on the holy side of the scripture.

Reading to them. They still have to study it. They just need more help, that's all.

who is there to read the bible to all illiterates from A to Z. There is no manpower to do this.

Yes they did, its call Old testiment, and he refered to it often, as did pretty much all the other NT writers.

Here you were quoting Matthew to understand Luke.

 

[SnuP]

Originally posted by spiritualscientist
 

So you base the Spirit of God on others? How do you prove others are correct.

That was called sarcasm.  You said that I was just repeating some old idea.  I wasn't.  I don't relie upon the ideas of men.

This is what you said

"It is the same as Jesus saying that He was sent to preach the goodnews to the poor."

I didn't say it, Jesus said it, Luke 4:18.  But we also know from scripture that He didn't stop at the poor.

Why ask the question you can tell from what I an writing here. Jesus in the spiritual was God but in the physical was man.

I can't tell.  Your notions about God are off the wall so I wanted to see what you thought about Jesus being equal to the Father.

 

[spiritualscientist]

Originally posted by SnuP
That was called sarcasm.  You said that I was just repeating some old idea.  I wasn't.  I don't relie upon the ideas of men.

It is not sarcasm. I was simply repeating what you just said.

I can't tell.  Your notions about God are off the wall so I wanted to see what you thought about Jesus being equal to the Father.

Do you have proof they are off the wall? You are only basing your decision on your concept of God  

 

[SnuP]

My concepts about God has led me into a deep relationship with God where I have one on one conversations with Him about many thing, even things that some might find petty. It has developed a love relationship between me and Him the few around me understand. It has allowed me to pertake of the miraculous and see all of my loved ones healed and set free acording to the measure of their faith. He has restored lost relationships, healed old wounds, and delievered many from great opression, and brought them into real and lasting confort and peace. All based on the concepts that you argue so stongly against.

So where is your fruit.

 

[SnuP]

I also feel God's presence around me daily, and see His many workings in every situation that I face. I know that He is constantly there because I always feel Him. He always comes when I call and always answers my many questions. His answers always prove to be right, and He never stops showing me favor. He is a constant source of confort and strength and wisdom. He answers every pray that I pray with a yes answer or something better. He always shows me the truth about my self and He never stops talking to me.

So where is your fruit?

 

[spiritualscientist]

Originally posted by SnuP

So where is your fruit. [/B]

Fruits are not meant to be a show off since its only by God's grace that we get them. You may have perform more than someone, but you don't know what plan God has for the future.

 

[SnuP]

Accually I do. I know alot of what He has planned for me, and what He has planned for the whole human race.

Fruit is ment to be shown of because it is our testimony. Jesus said that you will know them by there fruit. I can't see it if you are hiding it, so I won't know if you are a deciple of Christ unless I see it. And it says that you can overcome by your testimony in revelations.

Are you saying that we showed be closet christians?

 

[spiritualscientist]

Originally posted by SnuP
Accually I do. I know alot of what He has planned for me, and what He has planned for the whole human race.

What plan does He have for you? What plan does He have for me? What plan does He have for the world? I honestly would like to hear it.

Fruit is ment to be shown of because it is our testimony. Jesus said that you will know them by there fruit. I can't see it if you are hiding it, so I won't know if you are a deciple of Christ unless I see it. And it says that you can overcome by your testimony in revelations.

Are you saying that we showed be closet christians?

We can testify humbly but I don't think it is in order for one to testify as a show off.

 

 

[SnuP]

I'm not showing off if that's what your getting at. You asked for proof that your concepts of God are off the wall. Which is the same as asking for proof that what I believe about God is right. So therefore I posted my proof for my beliefs. That is not showing of. I believe that I gave you what you asked for.

Also I have no idea what God has planned for you. If you want to know, or argue, what I believe that God has shown me concerning the future then open a new thread and post a linkto it on this one. I think that discusing my beliefs about the future on this thread will be a little too off topic.

 

[reAsonX]

They do not teach that oen should strive to be sick or that sickenss itself is good. What they teach is Romans 8:28.  That God will use everything.  Even the things that seems bad to us for our good.  Your argument there was just a strawman because you completely misrepresented our views. 

That is kind of like saying God will use your hitting your thumb with a hammer to teach your what?  That you do not want to hit your thumb with a hammer?

 

 

[reAsonX]

Originally posted by Blackhawk
part 1 - please excuse how confusing it turned out to be.  I can't get rid of the other junk that is showing up each time I save it.  If anoyone knows how to get rid of it can you please PM me and if you are a staff member can you clear it up?  I have tried but it is all crazy.

Hi BH.

1.  Copy and paste the original text you want to quote into a non-formating text editor like Notepad. Don't use WORD or any other editor that allows you to change fonts or sizes or bolding etc....

2. Copy and paste the text from Notepad into the posting  "Your Reply" box. This will remove the tags and formating characters from your post.

peace 

 

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

Originally posted by spiritualscientist
 


Now you are simply turning to personal attacks. Stick to our discussion. You have nothing from the Gospel to back the rich and I have shown you several scriptures which you did not reply.

I apologize if you cansider my statement a personal attack. It was not meant to be. However, from what I have read of your posts so far it is what I see. Someone who needs a reason not to pull their end of things. Just sit and study and pray. Do debating on the computer. But not be responsible for anything.

As I was praying I suddenly thought that maybe we need to define "rich". Most people, Americans anyway, when they hear the word "rich", it conjures up images of Robin Leach and his Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous. A true Christian, who had plenty of money would not choose to live such a lifestyle. Although, I want to make it clear, that I don't believe occasional indilgence is wrong either.

In order for the Kingdom of God to be preached here on earth, money is necessary. People who really have "nothing", generally live on the street and expect others, who do have money, to support them.

As far as I know, I have replied to every scripture you brought up. But I also need time to pray and consider some of your points. When I answer without doing that, I do not answer as completely as I prefer. So please allow me some time.


Jesus did not read OT in order to understand the meaning of the Kingdom of God. This is already written in His heart. He only read when preaching to people as a reference. He himself did not need OT.

The scripture says, "and Jesus increased in wisdom and stature" (Luke 2:52). One cannot "increase" something they supposedly already have "all" of. He grew up under the training of every Jewish boy. He studied the books of the law and the prophets, just like every Jewish boy. He may not have "needed" it but He submitted to it. Even in the temple, He being the Word, submitted to the teaching of the Word.

Are you saying you are incapable of sinning? So what you mean you no longer need forgiveness, and hence the Lord's prayer is not applicable to you?

Next time try to speak the Gospel. Jesus said everything we need to know about spirituality.

Are you incapable of obedience to God? Everytime we sin, we need to ask forgiveness. But since Jesus said, "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect" (Matt 5:48), it must be possible.

Yes, Jesus did speak and do everything we need to know but not all of it was written down "And there are also many other things that Jesus did, which if they were written one by one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that would be written (John 21:25)

That's why Peter and John said in Acts 4:20 "For we cannot but speak the things which we have seen and heard". If you're ignoring everything but the 4 gospels, and questioning even that, then you are ignoring the gospel.(

Jesus cannot contradict himself. I gave you scriptures relating to richness, I dont know why you are denying them. You are rich physically in God's eyes if you are healthy and meet the basic needs.

I am not denying anything Jesus said. I am denying your rendition of what He said.

You are now saying the opposite of what is written. Let me remind you
Luke 6:20 "Blessed are you poor"


Let me remind you again "Blessed are you poor"

Again, let me say. . .I believe there is a difference in the Matt and Luke ref. because the emphasis is not on the word "poor". It's on the word "blessed". Instead of calling the poor cursed, Jesus pronounced them as blessed. They were not blessed BECAUSE they were poor. They were blessed because Jesus said so. The poor were looked down on but Jesus lifted them up and told them they did not have to stay there. They could be blessed with spiritual richness and blessed with physical richness. Again, not meaning "lifestyles of the rich and famous" richness but God would supply their needs richness.

True, but this is not what we are arguing about.

I am not arguing with you. I'm stating the Truth, according to Jesus. [/ B]

 

[4thecross]

Scripture says:

(Matthew 6:24) "No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money.

 

[Nosa Eresu]

>Scripture says:

>(Matthew 6:24) "No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the >one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the >other. You cannot serve both God and Money.

Serving money and using it are two different things, especially if you are using large amounts of it for the good of all.

 

[4thecross]

The only way you can know if you are serving money or not is by how much spending you are doing led by the Holy Spirit. When was the last time you set out to go out to eat, asked God if you should? Do you look through sale ads to try to save a buck? Do you buy something because you have a coupon? Do you have a list of things you want?

The only way to hate money is to be dead to it, surrendering all of your desires to the Lord, and allow Him to direct ALL of your spending.

Much Grace,
4thecross