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Kylie's LP Challenge

Discussion in 'Physical & Life Sciences' started by Kylie, May 19, 2019.

  1. Kylie

    Kylie Atheist and Proud

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    Your friend Bill shows you an LP. It looks to be in pristine condition.

    Bill has a piece of paper that was written by someone neither of you has met (Bill thinks it was the guy who used to live in his flat but moved away before Bill lived there, although he can't be sure). This piece of paper says that the LP was once scratched, but brilliantly restored.

    You want to know if the paper's account is accurate, so you subject the LP to tests, but you can find no evidence to support the claim written on the paper (as well as several things which seem to contradict the paper's claim).

    Bill, however, is under the impression that the guy who used to live in his flat was completely trustworthy, and since he also thinks that this guy wrote the paper, the claim written on it must be true. Bill also says that the things you found that contradict the paper's claim must simply be a result of your own fallibility.

    Here's my challenge:

    Who has the most reasonable position? You, or Bill?
     
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  2. PeterJames0510

    PeterJames0510 New Member

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    First of all, I'm not sure what 'LP' stands for; sorry, I think it must be a cultural thing.

    I would say in your scenario, I think you're trying to give an equivalent to the Bible, for instance. I would say the analogy probably falls flat for several reasons:

    a) The number of extant manuscripts showing that the scriptures do exist and are accurate are more than to show the Shakespeare's works are in tact.
    b) The number of authors for the Bible is 40 or so; in your analogy, we're talking one person.
    c) If it is the actual existence of God you are trying to get at, eye witness testimony to the existence of a person or multiple things that person does is completely sufficient in a court of law; so why is it not sufficient to prove God's existence?

    So while I don't know what an 'LP' is or what documents or verbal testimonies are vouching for it, but I suggest that while in the analogy - you may win hands down on the document for the LP is suspect ... it doesn't equal the testimony of the scriptures to God.
     
  3. PeterJames0510

    PeterJames0510 New Member

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    By the way, it's nice to meet you no matter your position on theism or what not. :) Blessings - Peter James
     
  4. Dave-W

    Dave-W Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner! Supporter

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    LOL!!!!

    Not cultural per se, but a time sensitive term. LP refers to a Long Play vinyl record, 12 inches in diameter.
     
  5. AV1611VET

    AV1611VET SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE Supporter

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    This is an LP:



    It stands for LONG PLAY.

    As opposed to a 45 (rpm), which is a single song

     
    Last edited: May 19, 2019
  6. AV1611VET

    AV1611VET SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE Supporter

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    The old 78 rpm that was fun to play at 33⅓ for about 10 seconds, until it got tiresome. ^_^
     
  7. PeterJames0510

    PeterJames0510 New Member

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    Oh, I see. A record player. Why didn't you just say so! ;)

    My son has a record player; and not a new one either. An old one from the 60s; he loves buying records at antique shops and listening to them; he's 17! Even I'm not that nostalgic! :)
     
  8. AV1611VET

    AV1611VET SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE Supporter

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    Sounds like he's got the old one, where you can stack records on the spindle.
     
  9. PeterJames0510

    PeterJames0510 New Member

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    THIRD MESSAGE: Okay, now that I understand what the heck an LP is! :)

    What claims of the Bible have been made that you tested that have not panned out and that you believe other Christians may have 'overlooked' simply because they trust that whatever God said is therefore true?
     
  10. Kenny'sID

    Kenny'sID Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I'm just surprised people take their Lolly Pops that seriously.
     
  11. Kenny'sID

    Kenny'sID Well-Known Member Supporter

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  12. AV1611VET

    AV1611VET SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE Supporter

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  13. AV1611VET

    AV1611VET SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE Supporter

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  14. Lazarus Short

    Lazarus Short Well-Known Member

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    There is also the rare beast, a twelve-inch single, played at 45 rpm. I have at least one of those, and it easily beats the CD version. But what is this thread really about? Who to trust?? I would tend to trust my own conclusions about the LP, and disbelieve the note unless it contained internal self-confirmation.
     
  15. Tinker Grey

    Tinker Grey Wanderer Supporter

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    I was with you up until the last phrase. What do you mean by "internal self-confirmation"?
     
  16. Lazarus Short

    Lazarus Short Well-Known Member

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    I mean the kind of internal self-confirmation we see in the Bible.
     
  17. Maria Billingsley

    Maria Billingsley Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Ok, I will be the first to comment on this mysterious note claiming the brilliantly restored RECORD. What is the other evidence, you did not state, that makes this note unreliable?
     
  18. Tinker Grey

    Tinker Grey Wanderer Supporter

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    What does that mean? What would it look it look like in this hypothetical situation?
     
  19. Lazarus Short

    Lazarus Short Well-Known Member

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    It would simply mean that in the note was information that confirmed that the message was true, like before/after photos of the flaw in the LP, and a description of how the restoration was done.
     
  20. Tinker Grey

    Tinker Grey Wanderer Supporter

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    Well then I wouldn't use a phrase like "self-confirming." I'd simply say that the note provided evidence beyond a simple "say-so."
     
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