Koran verses read denying Jesus Son of God in Cathedral

[SayitStraight]

Wrong. Jews, Muslims and Christians all worship the God of Abraham. Further, there are many Arab Christians so your statement regarding Arabs is false.

i said the peoples down through the ages Not the exception of the few ). Islam did not exist before the time of JESUS . allah is Not Elohim -never was never will be .

 

[Original Happy Camper]

I believe that's an odd way of framing it. We all believe there's only ONE God. It's our perceptions/understanding of who that is that is plural.

The phrase "Abrahamic religion" is used for Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. Unfortunately....the contempt for Jews seems to be rising as well (all in the name of God--and who is "worshiping the right God")....which I believe is "anti-Christ".

Help me out your statement appears to be saying that "worshiping the right God" is anti-Christ. Is this what you are saying?

 

[redleghunter]

I don't see the problem here, Allah = God = Yahweh, this is simply looking for a problem where one does not exist.

There are arguments Allah is the Arabic version of God. Quite a few Arab Christians here would no doubt say so.

However there is no mention of The Name, YHWH in the Qur'an.

Also the article is much more than saying Allah. The quotes given deny the Deity of Jesus Christ and His Incarnation.

Why that would be allowed in a Christian church is quite a head shaker.

 

[redleghunter]

Allah is the same god in Christianity and Judaism. It's just a different name for the same thing.

You are making an argument not relevant to the OP.

 

[Archivist]

i said the peoples down through the ages Not the exception of the few ). Islam did not exist before the time of JESUS . allah is Not Elohim -never was never will be .

I never said that Islam existed before the time of Jesus. And to what few do you refer?

 

[dqhall]

A passage from the Koran that denies one of the central tenets of the Christian faith was sung aloud at a cathedral service in Scotland.
The passage from Surah 19, which specifically denies that Jesus was the Son of God and says He should not be worshipped, was sung during a Eucharist service at St Mary’s Episcopal Cathedral in Glasgow to mark the feast of the Epiphany.

A video of the recital was posted on YouTube showing a girl singing the passage in a typical Islamic style. It narrates the Islamic account of the birth of Jesus, which includes the claim that Mary was “ashamed” after giving birth, and the infant Christ miraculously spoke from the cradle – something not found in Christian scripture.

She then concludes by singing verse 35, which states in translation: “It befitteth not the Majesty of Allah that He should take unto Himself a son,” and then verse 36, which has the infant Jesus saying: “And lo! Allah is my Lord and your Lord. So worship Him. That is the right path.”

The cathedral praised the reading in a Facebook post, calling it a “wonderful event”.

However, retired Anglican bishop Michael Nazir-Ali strongly condemned it, saying it was especially inappropriate for the feast of the Epiphany, which celebrates the revelation of Christ as the Son of God.


Christian Today quotes him as saying: “The authorities of the Scottish Episcopal Church should immediately repudiate this ill-advised invitation.”

“Christians should know what their fellow citizens believe and this can include reading the Qur’an for themselves, whether in the original or in translation. This is not, however, the same thing as having it read in Church in the context of public worship,” he added.

“It is particularly insensitive to have this passage read in Church on the Feast of the Epiphany when we celebrate not only Christ’s manifestation to the gentiles but also his baptism and the divine declaration, ‘you are my beloved son in whom I am well pleased’.”

The Scottish Episcopal Church is part of the worldwide Anglican Communion, which also includes the Church of England and America’s Episcopalian Church.

Koran Verse Denying Divinity of Christ Sung at Episcopal Cathedral Service

The cathedral’s Facebook page also proudly publicises a press report on the provost’s Christmas sermon, in which he compared U.S. President-Elect Donald Trump to the biblical King Herod, who ordered the massacre of children.

When they start preaching Islam from the pulpit, it is time to look for a better church.

 

[mkgal1]

Help me out your statement appears to be saying that "worshiping the right God" is anti-Christ. Is this what you are saying?

No....I am not referring to who is worshiping whom. I am saying that the rising contempt (based on lies) for other Abrahamic religions is antithetical to Christ. It reminds me a lot of this passage from Acts:

Opposition arose, however, from members of the Synagogue of the Freedmen (as it was called)--Jews of Cyrene and Alexandria as well as the provinces of Cilicia and Asia--who began to argue with Stephen.

 

[Original Happy Camper]

No....I am not referring to who is worshiping whom. I am saying that the rising contempt (based on lies) for other Abrahamic religions is antithetical to Christ. It reminds me a lot of this passage from Acts:

Great thanks for the clarification.

I would like you to expound on the contempt (based on lies) what lies?

 

[LinkH]

Allah as depicted in the Koran is not God of the Bible. They specifically deny the second and third persons of the Holy Trinity. These verses quoted are direct refutation of the Christian concept of God.

The Christians who speak Arabic, Indonesian, and various other languages call God Allah. The evidence seems to point to the fact that Christians were doing this before Muhammad came on the scene.

The Ugarits had a pantheon and they called the leader of it El in their mythology, but the El in their stories did not act like the true one.

Whether they understood it or not, why would they have Islamic texts read or sung in their church service? Why even sing a Christian song if people present do not understand, without interpreting it?

I spoke a convert from Mu ham mad ism who said that in Arabic, the confession is that Allah does not have a walad, while the Christian confession is that Jesus is the Ibn. He said walad is very specific in terms of referring to physical offspring. I never got deep enough into Arabic to confirm or deny his assertions.

 

[redleghunter]

Jesus was created The similitude of Jesus before Allah is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him: "Be". And he was. (3:59, Yusif Ali)
Deny Jesus' Crucifixion That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not. (4:157,Yusif Ali)
Jesus is no more than a messenger of Allah O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) a messenger of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His messengers. Say not "Trinity" : desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is one Allah: Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs. (4:171, Yusif Ali)


Christ the son of Mary was no more than a messenger; many were the messengers that passed away before him. His mother was a woman of truth. They had both to eat their (daily) food. See how Allah doth make His signs clear to them; yet see in what ways they are deluded away from the truth! (5:575, Yusif Ali)

There are quite a few similarities between the Jesus of Islam and liberal Christian theologies.

 

[redleghunter]

Which is something Muslims take seriously (and--from what I've heard from some--is why they can't accept Jesus of Nazareth as God). They consider that as polytheism.

Don't we as Christians drive home the idea that our faith is a *personal* relationship with God? We all agree that "God is love"---shouldn't we make *that* our priority to love and respect others (instead of zeroing in on where our beliefs part ways)?

Freedom is a major part of love...and Jesus Himself instructed us to:

"Love God with all our heart, mind, and soul...and love your neighbor as yourself". Do you recall the next question (recorded in Luke 10) that was asked of Jesus and how He answered?

I don't think anyone here is arguing the law of love with you.

I do realize you have introduced such into the discussion to obscure the real issue.

The issue is a traditional Christian church tried to do something they thought was loving. Yet they let their Muslim guests to preach heresy during a holy observance of the Epiphany.

At the very least this is poor judgment as Islam denies the Deity of Jesus Christ Son of God. Poor judgment.

There are plenty of community outreach venues the church could choose to foster a peaceful relationship and sense of community.

And frankly, showing love for a neighbor who is enslaved to the error of Islam is to obey Christ and preach His Gospel.

See Luke 24 and 1 Corinthians 15.

 

[Paul Yohannan]

no they do not . the Arabic peoples and peoples of the lands of the east down through the generations (as recorded in exodus and kings .. down through the ages to this day have NEVER worshiped the God of the Hebrews .the bible makes this very clear . just because Muhammad came along later and wrote an abominable book of lies does not make it so.

This comes across as a bit insensitive in light of the very large number of martyrs in the Coptic, Syriac, and Antiochian church in Egypt, Syria, Iraq, et cetera.

 

[redleghunter]

To me...."sharing the Gospel" is through love and respect (not telling someone "you are wrong"). I've witnessed that tactic---and I have NEVER seen it go over well. The "fruit" causes me to come to the conclusion that's not the Truth of the Gospel.

Where is this Gospel of theological tolerance in the NT?

Souls in the NT heard the Gospel (1 Corinthians 15) preached, believed and were baptized. Then became church members.

I don't know of any account where pagans and unconverted Pharisees came to share in the traditions of the congregation and allowed to share their favorite prayer of Diana.

Think about it. Have Christians in the post modern era gone off the reservation, and now forget our Mission?

Luke 24: KJV

44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,

46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behooved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:

47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

48 And ye are witnesses of these things.

49 And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.

 

[redleghunter]

Could you list and contrast those two for me (what you're calling "major doctrines centered on Jesus Christ" and the false beliefs)?

In my belief....God's main purpose was this:

" For in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell, and through him God was pleased to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven..."~Col 1:19

The one word is Christology. Muslims do not share the traditional Christian Christology.

 

[redleghunter]

Another reason on my list that the Episcopal "church" is not actually a church nor is it Christian.

That's a broad brush.

There are obedient Episcopal parishes.

 

[redleghunter]

Is it ever recorded where Jesus (who would know) "rebuked" a Samaritan for not accepting most of the OT prophets?

As a matter of fact Jesus revealed to the Samaritan woman in John 4 that He was the Living Water.

Another example of people coming to Him by His Will and not incorporating the error of others to find a common ground.

 

[Leevo]

That's a broad brush.

There are obedient Episcopal parishes.

I don't pain the individual parishioners with the same brush, but I will brush the same church with it. If they follow orthodox Christian teaching, they should refuse to be a part of such an organization as that.

 

[Dave-W]

Cite a source for that.

And it warns those who say "Allah has taken a son." Surely, of this they have no knowledge, neither they nor their fathers; they say nothing but a lie. Surah 18:4-5

The article referenced in the OP lists another passage and is what this thread is all about.

 

[Dave-W]

Do you know what Palestinian Christians call "God"?

Some of them.

Others use the Hebrew terms Elohim, Adonai and Yeshua.

 

[Dave-W]

How is it the "wiles of the devil" to state a simple fact, that being that we all worship the God of Abraham, but the Muslims have a mistaken understanding of the God of Abraham?

I suggest, rather, I URGE everyone in this thread to get a copy of the book "Discerning the Times" by Presbyterian pastor Rev Zeb Bradly Long. Read it. It lays out how the devil has used islam - especially the radicalized jihadi version - to point by point deny and replace foundational truths of Christianity.

the virgin birth
The divinity of Messiah
the plan of salvation by faith and grace

Since Paul tells us that satan himself transforms (disguises) himself into an angel of light, how is it not seen by us believers that while they may THINK they are giving their worship to the God of Abraham; they are in fact worshiping something else.

To have those lies proclaimed in a Christian Church should be an outrage to every believer.