Kissing Marriage Goodbye

[Miles]

Sorry to hear that, but I'm not surprised. The emphasis on "purity" rather than pragmatic reasons for self-control sets young people up for unrealistic expectations and failure. It also stigmatizes those who can't or don't wait until marriage. Both set young people up for disillusionment and failure.

There's nothing inherently wrong with dating. It can be a friendly way to get to know someone better before deciding whether to pursue a serious relationship. Something to help you (hopefully) make better decisions when you do.

 

[hedrick]

Are there testimonies of Christians who believe all future sin is paid for who walk in faithful obedience to God's commands?

Most of the time, I hear OSAS Proponents tell me how they can sin and still be saved (on some level) and that we can never overcome sin in this life. But that is just my experience on talking about the topic for many years on various different forums and with people in person.

Jesus taught two different things; (1) God loves us and forgives us (2) We're called to spread the Kingdom, and will be held responsible for how we respond.

OSAS raises an additional question of someone who has completely fallen away. But that doesn't seem to be what you're talking about. You're suggesting that if we believe in justification by faith, there are no consequences to sin.

This isn't going to be popular I'm afraid, but I think the problem is the number of people whose idea of judgement is just whether you go to heaven or hell. But Jesus talked about varying rewards and punishments. The most explicit descriptions I know of judgement (aside from the Rev, but I'm not willing to derive doctrine from that) are in Paul. In 1 Cor 3:12 he warned us that we might be saved, but with very little of our lives left.

 

[GOD Shines Forth!]

Well... at best I feel that Josh was targeted and is somewhat confused.

To me this says more about the flawed structures of the church failing to see the need for a support structure effective for those who rise to prominence.

The fact that abstinence before marriage is not easy to attain too, does not make it wrong.

Culture powerfully presents fleshly gratification as a 'cure all' for of life's issues. This is the antithesis of the Word of Jesus who made us and knows how we were designed to live.

33 years and 5 children later Sandi and I are seriously bonded together in Jesus having never dated, and committed to each other in 3 days, engaged in 3 weeks, married in 3 months. This all came about from a sovereign Word from above that we, as pretty much strangers, should marry.

Mind you this was in response to years of prayer being stored up in a heavenly bottle and at the right time being poured out.

I pray for Josh and I hope that he can be enveloped by loving supportive brothers and sisters so that he can be healed and restored.

The army of God does not leave wounded soldiers on the battle field.

Beautiful post, Carl. Builds up!

 

[Alien Lotus]

God forgives. I would not presume to know this pastor nor his wife's marriage. However, I do believe that a loving God does not want his children to endure in a loveless marriage. Divorce and the thought of divorce can be God's answer to a prayer in such a marriage. Find those who will love you and set the other free to do the same.

May Joshua and his soon to be ex-wife find every happiness and continue to journey in the light and peace of God. Amen.

 

[Blade]

Those people are not here.. this is gossip. Easy to just ask them if they are OK with you posting any of this. Do we care who they feel?

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Joshua Harris - former mega-pastor and author of I Kissed Dating Goodbye - announced Thursday that he and his wife are separating.

The Author of a Wildly Popular Manifesto on Abstinence Before Marriage Is Separating From His Wife

This comes at a time when the "purity culture" of the 90s and 2000s is under intense criticism and there's a growing population of "exvangelicals". It appears that American Evangelicalism is in a bad way right now.

I think that these exvangelicals reject too much. They end up landing in a place that does not at all resemble the religion of Jesus. This is what happens when the gospel is reduced to a particular moral message. The message of purity culture was "be good". When sinners found this to be unworkable they ended up rejecting Christianity altogether.

He's basically discredited himself as a Christian pastor and teacher because he has broken his marriage vow that he made before God. The Scripture says that what God has joined together let not man put asunder. The marriage vow is "till death do us part", nor "just while we feel like being married".

 

[derpytia]

Joshua Harris - former mega-pastor and author of I Kissed Dating Goodbye - announced Thursday that he and his wife are separating.

The Author of a Wildly Popular Manifesto on Abstinence Before Marriage Is Separating From His Wife

This comes at a time when the "purity culture" of the 90s and 2000s is under intense criticism and there's a growing population of "exvangelicals". It appears that American Evangelicalism is in a bad way right now.

I think that these exvangelicals reject too much. They end up landing in a place that does not at all resemble the religion of Jesus. This is what happens when the gospel is reduced to a particular moral message. The message of purity culture was "be good". When sinners found this to be unworkable they ended up rejecting Christianity altogether.

I think it's foolishness for people to be investing so much time, money, and attention into the people who lead these mega-churches. When will we realize that these people are infallible and to stop elevating them to Jesus' position?

Sorry for this guy though. Divorce is rough.

 

[Alien Lotus]

He's basically discredited himself as a Christian pastor and teacher because he has broken his marriage vow that he made before God. The Scripture says that what God has joined together let not man put asunder. The marriage vow is "till death do us part", nor "just while we feel like being married".

"In a bad marriage there are a great many ways to die." Unknown
Jesus spoke of divorce. Marriage is permissible in scripture.

 

[Daniel Martinovich]

If you find the message "be good" to be workable, then I wonder if you are either ignorant of the real demands of God's law (how good is good enough?) or if you're ignorant of the depths of your own sin.

Or, perhaps since I was able to walk the walk and not just talk the walk. I'm not really the one who is ignorant?

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Joshua Harris - former mega-pastor and author of I Kissed Dating Goodbye - announced Thursday that he and his wife are separating.

The Author of a Wildly Popular Manifesto on Abstinence Before Marriage Is Separating From His Wife

This comes at a time when the "purity culture" of the 90s and 2000s is under intense criticism and there's a growing population of "exvangelicals". It appears that American Evangelicalism is in a bad way right now.

I think that these exvangelicals reject too much. They end up landing in a place that does not at all resemble the religion of Jesus. This is what happens when the gospel is reduced to a particular moral message. The message of purity culture was "be good". When sinners found this to be unworkable they ended up rejecting Christianity altogether.

No one said marriage was easy. In fact, it is the most difficult relationship to manage. It is interesting that Jesus Christ of Nazareth compared the commitment in marriage to our commitment to Him, The Father. It is equally as difficult to Walk in the Spirit. Even the Apostles left Christ in one stage or another. BUT THEY STAYED THE COURSE.

But who am I to speak of such things!

Blessings

 

[Daniel Martinovich]

Joshua Harris - former mega-pastor and author of I Kissed Dating Goodbye - announced Thursday that he and his wife are separating.

The Author of a Wildly Popular Manifesto on Abstinence Before Marriage Is Separating From His Wife

This comes at a time when the "purity culture" of the 90s and 2000s is under intense criticism and there's a growing population of "exvangelicals". It appears that American Evangelicalism is in a bad way right now.

I think that these exvangelicals reject too much. They end up landing in a place that does not at all resemble the religion of Jesus. This is what happens when the gospel is reduced to a particular moral message. The message of purity culture was "be good". When sinners found this to be unworkable they ended up rejecting Christianity altogether.

I like the way this article puts it>
Kissing Marriage Goodbye: Joshua Harris Announces Divorce

 

[Tree of Life]

Those people are not here.. this is gossip. Easy to just ask them if they are OK with you posting any of this. Do we care who they feel?

We're discussing their public statements.

 

[DamianWarS]

Joshua Harris - former mega-pastor and author of I Kissed Dating Goodbye - announced Thursday that he and his wife are separating.

The Author of a Wildly Popular Manifesto on Abstinence Before Marriage Is Separating From His Wife

This comes at a time when the "purity culture" of the 90s and 2000s is under intense criticism and there's a growing population of "exvangelicals". It appears that American Evangelicalism is in a bad way right now.

I think that these exvangelicals reject too much. They end up landing in a place that does not at all resemble the religion of Jesus. This is what happens when the gospel is reduced to a particular moral message. The message of purity culture was "be good". When sinners found this to be unworkable they ended up rejecting Christianity altogether.

courting works just not when most of the culture works against it (and that's currently how it is). when you are doing the thing no one else is doing and everyone is asking why then it's not going to work because no one is helping you and you're on your own.

Courting works in systems when you marry you live with your parents and the mother teaches the girl how to be a wife and the father teaches the boy... etc. It depends on this sort of passing the torch, apprenticeship teaching model but if you marry someone you don't know then get thrown into real life that you also don't know there's going to be a lot of stressors which cause's withdrawal from whatever has changed (ie. new spouse)

Young adults are also not as prepared for life as they used to be, this is the result of our over-emphasis of education and career and changing dynamics of culture of what constitutes of functioning and independent. The result is this peter-pan syndrome where kids never grow up (or at least take a long time to). There are many cases of only partially independent late 20 yr olds because they are still in school and are not ready yet to start a career. And our culture doesn't release kids into marriage until their school is done and even until they have started a career which can easily put them in their late 20's and even early 30's. This is why people are living together before marriage, sex and playing marriage because of our high demands on being independent is simply too long and unrealistic to wait.

This is also not a healthy system for young marriage when you are 18, 19, 20 etc... because you're still a kid and probably don't even know how to pay for a water bill or do groceries, the result is 2 kids getting married on ideals but no experience or training of life (courting kind of depends on 2 people that are already trained for life). Christian parents need to be very intentional to prepare their kids for the complexities of living in our culture so they can cope with an earlier marriage, even financial support or living with their parents. Our culture has shifted away so much from Christian values of marriage that it has actually created systems to counter them.

either we promote sex before marriage because it's the only way it works if we follow the demands of our culture (or we ban it and it happens aways) or we promote early marriage and prepare our kids for marriage early on but also be available to help them to slowly prepeare them.

 

[DamianWarS]

Joshua Harris - former mega-pastor and author of I Kissed Dating Goodbye - announced Thursday that he and his wife are separating.

The Author of a Wildly Popular Manifesto on Abstinence Before Marriage Is Separating From His Wife

This comes at a time when the "purity culture" of the 90s and 2000s is under intense criticism and there's a growing population of "exvangelicals". It appears that American Evangelicalism is in a bad way right now.

I think that these exvangelicals reject too much. They end up landing in a place that does not at all resemble the religion of Jesus. This is what happens when the gospel is reduced to a particular moral message. The message of purity culture was "be good". When sinners found this to be unworkable they ended up rejecting Christianity altogether.

I read the article and harris seems to be separated after 19 years of marriage noting that in 2015 he stepped down from his pastoral position and relocated his family to go into seminary which would bring a mass amount of added stress to a family. they seem have gone through a type of identity change and person reevaluating which leads to stress... and more stress.

I'm not a fan of the book (I read it 15 years ago while dating my now wife) but I think it's worth saying that 19 years of marriage can no longer be pointed back to a flawed courtship system. They should have worked out their "getting to know each other" part by now and what they are going through now probably is related to irresponsible ways they've handle stress or change unrelated to the ideals of a book written by Harris 22 years ago.

His fame early on and put in leadership and the fishbowl spotlight that is a product of being a famous pastor are things that are probably closely related. He stepped down from all this, moved to Canada to go into seminary 2015 and a massive redefining of his perspective of life. I would say this event pre-2015 that triggered all these changes contributed to the separation and the couples inability to seek help and resolve things on their own rather than say his flawed courtship design is what caused the breakup.

Sum it up, I think the statute of limitations on the book has been expired for quite some time and it's time to blame their issues on probably the poor way they handled them and not the flawed courtship design.

 

[bèlla]

I don’t support early marriage for my daughter. I support the person who’s prepared for its demands and sacrifices. If they haven’t reached that point I wouldn’t set them up for failure.

For us, that means finishing her education and generating an income in her business to leave the workforce permanently. Right now her plate is full. Marriage would be too much. But the answer differs for everyone.

 

[nanookadenord]

33 years and 5 children later Sandi and I are seriously bonded together in Jesus having never dated, and committed to each other in 3 days, engaged in 3 weeks, married in 3 months. This all came about from a sovereign Word from above that we, as pretty much strangers, should marry.

My ex-wife and I were married because of a word from above.

Notice I said ex? She divorced me because I couldn't make her happy.

The girl I am dating now is who I should marry. The relationship is much, much different than the marriage above. Now strife, we work things out together. We are much more a team.

This current relationship was prayers answered!

 

[johnlxyz]

I like the way this article puts it>
Kissing Marriage Goodbye: Joshua Harris Announces Divorce

I read all the comments, including reading the article “Kissing Marriage Goodbye…” and all the interesting comments under that article, including one comment by Alex mentioning hypergamy.


My wild guess is that Josh Harris’ wife did not like being uprooted from a very stable family life with her husband’s steady work as a minister – for him to go to Canada to study in a seminary.


Having dedicated my life to Christ at 19 and the Lord has led me away from marriage, I can only imagine how difficult it must be to be married in this modern age, and stay married for 20 years. I agree that being led by the Holy Spirit in Jesus name is very important.

 

[HatGuy]

To me this says more about the flawed structures of the church failing to see the need for a support structure

This I imagine is the real problem.

The Evangelical church is too professionalised. You have to live up to the expectations and fit in with its culture and when you don't, you don't fit in anymore. Because evangelical culture is so wrapped up in your identity, it's difficult to know who you are when you're questioning it - and you don't get much help from many you hoped you could.

 

[bèlla]

“Kissing Marriage Goodbye…” and all the interesting comments under that article, including one comment by Alex mentioning hypergamy.

Whenever you see hypergamy mentioned there’s usually a bad experience and unresolved anger towards the ex levied against women. I avoid them. ;-)

I can only imagine how difficult it must be to be married in this modern age, and stay married for 20 years. I agree that being led by the Holy Spirit in Jesus name is very important.

I still takes two people yielded to God willing to love, forgive, and bear one another’s burdens and flaws.

The only thing that changed is many are less yielded and willing to suffer and bear discomfort for the sake of the union. If I’m unwilling to make sacrifices on his behalf. I have no business marrying him. I’m relying on the Lord to order my steps toward him.

 

[Epthediah]

Modern marriage seems to end in life-wrecking conflict more often than not. I honestly don't understand why anyone even tries anymore.