kingdom of god and kingdom of the heavens

[A Brethren IN CHRIST]

what are the differences

 

[thereselittleflower]

AV

Where do you find the phrase "the kingdom of the heavens" (plural) in scripture?

I looked for it and cannot find it at all in the scripture.


I find "Kingdom of heaven" (singular), but not "the kingdom of the heavens" . .


The kingdom of heaven (singular) is the same as the kingdom of God.


Peace to all!

 

[thereselittleflower]

Ahh . I see . . it is Darby's translation of the bible that says "kingdom of the heavans" . . none of the others I have say this. one other says 'the reign of the heavens". But all others say

The kingdom of heaven


So I guess I am wondering why you have keyed into Darby's translation over the vast majority which say "kingdom of heaven" in the singular?


Peace to all!

 

[Iosias]

what are the differences

[size=+4]The "Kingdom of Heaven" and The"Kingdom of God". [/size]
[font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=+2][/size][/font]​

[font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman]This Is Appendix 114 From The Companion Bible. [/font]​

[font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=+1] We have seen in Appendix 112 that the word "kingdom", like the Greek basileia, has regard to sovereignty rather than territory, and to the sphere of its exercise rather than to its extent. [/size][/font]

[font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=+1] Using the word "kingdom" in this sense, and in that which is conveyed in its English termination "dom", which is short for dominion, we note that the former expression, "the Kingdom of heaven", occurs only in Matthew, where we find it thirty-two times [/size][/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman]1[/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=+1]. [/size][/font]

[font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=+1] But in the parallel passages in the other Gospels we find, instead, the expression "the Kingdom of God" (for example; compare Matthew 11:11 with Luke 7:[/size][/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman]28[/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=+1]). [/size][/font]

[font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=+1] The explanation of this seeming difference is that the Lord spoke in Aramaic; certainly not in the Greek of the Gospel documents. See Appendix 94. III.[/size][/font]

[font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=+1] Now "heaven" is frequently used by the Figure Metonymy (of the Subject), Appendix 6 for God Himself, Whose dwelling is there. See Psalm 73:[/size][/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman]9[/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=+1]. Daniel 4:[/size][/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman]26, 29[/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=+1]. [/size][/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman]2[/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=+1] Chronicles 32:[/size][/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman]20[/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=+1]. Matthew 21:[/size][/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman]25[/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=+1]. Luke 15:[/size][/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman]21[/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=+1] ("I have sinned against heaven" is thus contrasted with the words "and in thy sight"). John 3:[/size][/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman]27[/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=+1]. [/size][/font]

[font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=+1] Our suggestion is that in all the passages where the respective expressions occur, identical words were spoken by the Lord, "the Kingdom of heaven"; but when it came to putting them into Greek, Matthew was Divinely guided to retain the figure of speech literally ("heaven"), so as to be in keeping with the special character, design, and scope of his Gospel (see Appendix 96); while, in the other Gospels, the figure was translated as being what it also meant, "the Kingdom of God". [/size][/font]

[font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=+1] Thus, while the same in a general sense, the two expressions are to be distinguished in their meaning and in their interpretation, as follows :- [/size][/font]

1. [font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=+1]The Kingdom (or Sovereignty) of HEAVEN [/size][/font]
   
   1. [font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=+1]Has Messiah for its King; [/size][/font]
   2. [font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=+1]It is from heaven; and under the heavens upon the earth; [/size][/font]
   3. [font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=+1]It is limited in its scope; [/size][/font]
   4. [font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=+1]It is political in its sphere; [/size][/font]
   5. [font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=+1]It is Jewish and exclusive in its character; [/size][/font]
   6. [font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=+1]It is national in its aspect; [/size][/font]
   7. [font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=+1]It is the special subject of Old Testament prophecy; [/size][/font]
   8. [font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=+1]And it is dispensational in its duration. [/size][/font]
2. [font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=+1]The Kingdom (or Sovereignty) of GOD [/size][/font]
   
   
   1. [font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=+1]Has God for its Ruler; [/size][/font]
   2. [font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=+1]It is in heaven, over the earth; [/size][/font]
   3. [font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=+1]It is unlimited in its scope; [/size][/font]
   4. [font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=+1]It is moral and spiritual in its sphere; [/size][/font]
   5. [font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=+1]It is inclusive in its character (embracing the natural and spiritual seeds of Abraham, "the heavenly calling", and the "Church" of the Mystery). Hence, [/size][/font]
   6. [font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=+1]It is universal in its aspect; [/size][/font]
   7. [font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=+1]It is (in its wider aspect) the subject of New Testament revelation; [/size][/font]
   8. [font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=+1]And will be eternal in its duration. [/size][/font]

[font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=+1]NOTE[/size][/font]​

[font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman] [size=-1]1[/size][/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=+1] The Kingdom of God occurs only five times in Matthew (6:[/size][/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman]33[/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=+1]; 12:[/size][/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman]28[/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=+1]; 19:[/size][/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman]24[/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=+1]; 21:[/size][/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman]31, 43[/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=+1]). [/size][/font]

 

[FreeinChrist]

Ahh . I see . . it is Darby's translation of the bible that says "kingdom of the heavans" . . none of the others I have say this. one other says 'the reign of the heavens". But all others say

The kingdom of heaven


So I guess I am wondering why you have keyed into Darby's translation over the vast majority which say "kingdom of heaven" in the singular?

I believe you also like to use Young's Literal translation. It reads:

Mat 3:1 And in those days cometh John the Baptist, proclaiming in the wilderness of Judea,

Mat 3:2 and saying, `Reform, for come nigh hath the reign of the heavens,'

Mat 3:3 for this is he who was spoken of by Isaiah the prophet, saying, `A voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, straight make ye His paths.'

My NASB Bible has the word heaven noted here and on the side, it says, "literally, the heavens". I have a note that the Greek word used here, ouranos, is used singularly and plurally, interchangeably, and have the same meaning.

 

[thereselittleflower]

I guess when I don't use "bold" then what I say gets missed . . hence I use bold and colors, etc . .



From my post above (again)

Ahh . I see . . it is Darby's translation of the bible that says "kingdom of the heavans" . . none of the others I have say this. one other says 'the reign of the heavens". But all others say


The kingdom of heaven


So I guess I am wondering why you have keyed into Darby's translation over the vast majority which say "kingdom of heaven" in the singular?


Peace to all!

​

To further explain my puzzlement, the reign of the heavens is not speaking of a kingdom territory, but of the authority exercised.


Paul speaks of the 3rd heaven . . so a "plural" of heaven does not refer to anything different than what we commonly refer to as heaven.

It is interesting that none of the other literal translations I use refer to this in the plural . .


But back to the concept of "reign" - the word used in the Greek means the authority exercised in the kingdom rather than the kingdom itself. .

That authority extends to all of God's creation.

There is no difference between "the kingdom of heaven" (the reign exercised in this kingdom) and "the kingdm of God" referring to the reign of the ONE who exercises reign in the kingdom of heaven.


It is no different than saying

"the kingdom of England"

or

"the kindom of Queen Elizabeth" . .
​

both refer to the same thing.





I would also like to point out that the commentary provided by AV is only a suggestion, not a factual represntation of what these phrases must mean, s indicated by the words:

"Our suggestion is"


From the article provided by AV:

Our suggestion is that in all the passages where the respective expressions occur, identical words were spoken by the Lord, "the Kingdom of heaven"; but when it came to putting them into Greek, Matthew was Divinely guided to retain the figure of speech literally ("heaven"), so as to be in keeping with the special character, design, and scope of his Gospel (see Appendix 96); while, in the other Gospels, the figure was translated as being what it also meant, "the Kingdom of God".

​

The entire article is suggestive, speculative . .



Again, dispensationalist understanding of phrases, words, passages in scripture are based on theories, speculations, suggested understandings (as we see evidenced in this thread). .. not solid evidence or proof of any kind.



The Kingdom of God, kingdom of heaven, reign of the heavens, kingdon of the heavens all refer to the same thing.




Peace to all!

 

[FreeinChrist]

I guess when I don't use "bold" then what I say gets missed . . hence I use bold and colors, etc . .
To further explain my puzzlement, the reign of the heavens is not speaking of a kingdom territory, but of the authority exercised. It is interesting that none of the other literal translations I use refer to this in the plural . .

And as I already posted:
My NASB Bible has the word heaven noted here and on the side, it says, "literally, the heavens". I have a note that the Greek word used here, ouranos, is used singularly and plurally, interchangeably, and have the same meaning.

AND I pointed out what other translation used says "reign of heavens". It is YOUNG"S Literal translation.


So other translators were aware it was a plural word, but chose the singular.

I even have an old KJV with the footnote that phrase "kingdom of heaven" is literally "kingdom of heavens".


IMHO, complaining because the OP used "kingdom of heavens" and that it is just Darby's translation is an attempt to dis dispensationism.

 

[thereselittleflower]

Hi A Brethern in Christ!

Please accept my apologies for mixing you up with AV! I obviously had something else on my mind.


Do you have an answer for me as to why you keyed into Darby's translation putting "heavens" in the plural rather than the vast majority of translations which translated it "heaven" in the sngular?

Is there something significant in your mind that makes it important that it is in the plural?

I am also curious as to what your response is to my observation that the article you provided itself says it is speculative, that they author was making a suggested interpretation, not a conclusive one.



Peace to all!

 

[FreeinChrist]

Hi A Brethern in Christ!

Please accept my apologies for mixing you up with AV! I obviously had something else on my mind.


Do you have an answer for me as to why you keyed into Darby's translation putting "heavens" in the plural rather than the vast majority of translations which translated it "heaven" in the sngular?

Is there something significant in your mind that makes it important that it is in the plural?

I am also curious as to what your response is to my observation that the article you provided itself says it is speculative, that they author was making a suggested interpretation, not a conclusive one.



Peace to all!

hmmmm...A Brethren In Christ wrote the OP as you are now aware. But it was AV that provided the article that you think is speculative.

 

[thereselittleflower]

LOL

Look at what happens when I am posting while sleepy! I got the two of you, A Brethern in Christ and AV, mixed up in the same post . . . my apologies again!


AV . .the question is yours again! (And A Brethern in Christ, I am interested in you response as well!)

"I am also curious as to what your response is to my observation that the article you provided itself says it is speculative, that they author was making a suggested interpretation, not a conclusive one."


Peace to all!

 

[A Brethren IN CHRIST]

lets look at scripture to find out what these two different words describe each.
please help

Matt 3:2 kingdom of heaven

Matt 4:23
Matt 5:3
Matt 5:20
Matt 13:11, 24 wheat and tares
,31,33,44,47, 49 mixed kingdom wicked and just
Mat 18:3
Matt 19:23

matt 6:33 seek ye first the kingdom of God
Matt 19:24
mark 1:15
mark 4:26
mark 9:47
mark 10:24,25
mark 12:34
mark 14:25
luke 8:10
luke 10:9,11
luke 13:18,20,29
luke 14:15
luke 16:16
luke 17:20,21
luke 18:24,24,29

maybe av1611 can help if there is more with verses

But what I have been taught is that these two kingdom are both going threw the great white throne judgement yet like a state goverment working with a federal government both are true yet different

 

[thereselittleflower]

lets look at scripture to find out what these two different words describe each.
please help

Matt 3:2 kingdom of heaven

Matt 4:23
Matt 5:3
Matt 5:20
Matt 13:11, 24 wheat and tares
,31,33,44,47, 49 mixed kingdom wicked and just
Mat 18:3
Matt 19:23

matt 6:33 seek ye first the kingdom of God
Matt 19:24
mark 1:15
mark 4:26
mark 9:47
mark 10:24,25
mark 12:34
mark 14:25
luke 8:10
luke 10:9,11
luke 13:18,20,29
luke 14:15
luke 16:16
luke 17:20,21
luke 18:24,24,29

maybe av1611 can help if there is more with verses

But what I have been taught is that these two kingdom are both going threw the great white throne judgement yet like a state goverment working with a federal government both are true yet different

Hi A Brehtern in Christ.

I understand . . however, I would disagree with how you have been taught.


One expression refers to the PERSON who's kingdom it is, and the other refers to the REALM from which His authoirity extends . ..

For instance, the kingdom of England not only encompasses the literal country England, but all that it controls and rules over, where ever that may be in the world . . .

Same with the kingdom of heaven . . though earth is not a part of it. earth is under heaven's authority and control as is all of God's creation.

The kingdom of God and the rule of Chrsit are the same:

Rev 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

​

Kingdom:

G932

βασιλεία

basileia

Thayer Definition:

1) royal power, kingship, dominion, rule

1a) not to be confused with an actual kingdom but rather the right or authority to rule over a kingdom

1b) of the royal power of Jesus as the triumphant Messiah

1c) of the royal power and dignity conferred on Christians in the Messiah’s kingdom

2) a kingdom, the territory subject to the rule of a king

3) used in the N.T. to refer to the reign of the Messiah

Part of Speech: noun feminine

A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from G935

Citing in TDNT: 1:579, 97

​

Power:

G1849

ἐξουσία

exousia

Thayer Definition:

1) power of choice, liberty of doing as one pleases

1a) leave or permission

2) physical and mental power

2a) the ability or strength with which one is endued, which he either possesses or exercises

3) the power of authority (influence) and of right (privilege)

4) the power of rule or government (the power of him whose will and commands must be submitted to by others and obeyed)

4a) universally

4a1) authority over mankind

4b) specifically

4b1) the power of judicial decisions

4b2) of authority to manage domestic affairs

4c) metonymically

4c1) a thing subject to authority or rule

4c1a) jurisdiction

4c2) one who possesses authority

4c2a) a ruler, a human magistrate

4c2b) the leading and more powerful among created beings superior to man, spiritual potentates

4d) a sign of the husband’s authority over his wife

4d1) the veil with which propriety required a women to cover herself

4e) the sign of regal authority, a crown

Part of Speech: noun feminine

A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from G1832 (in the sense of ability)

Citing in TDNT: 2:562, 238

​

Both are referring to the kingdom of God, the kingdom of heaven . . .


They are one and the same thing.



Peace to all!

 

[A Brethren IN CHRIST]

Hi A Brehtern in Christ.

I understand . . however, I would disagree with how you have been taught.


One expression refers to the PERSON who's kingdom it is, and the other refers to the REALM from which His authoirity extends . ..

For instance, the kingdom of England not only encompasses the literal country England, but all that it controls and rules over, where ever that may be in the world . . .

Same with the kingdom of heaven . . though earth is not a part of it. earth is under heaven's authority and control as is all of God's creation.



The kingdom of God and the rule of Chrsit are the same:

Rev 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.



​

Kingdom:

G932


βασιλεία

basileia

Thayer Definition:

1) royal power, kingship, dominion, rule

1a) not to be confused with an actual kingdom but rather the right or authority to rule over a kingdom

1b) of the royal power of Jesus as the triumphant Messiah

1c) of the royal power and dignity conferred on Christians in the Messiah’s kingdom

2) a kingdom, the territory subject to the rule of a king

3) used in the N.T. to refer to the reign of the Messiah

Part of Speech: noun feminine

A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from G935

Citing in TDNT: 1:579, 97


​

Power:

G1849


ἐξουσία

exousia

Thayer Definition:

1) power of choice, liberty of doing as one pleases

1a) leave or permission

2) physical and mental power

2a) the ability or strength with which one is endued, which he either possesses or exercises

3) the power of authority (influence) and of right (privilege)

4) the power of rule or government (the power of him whose will and commands must be submitted to by others and obeyed)

4a) universally

4a1) authority over mankind

4b) specifically

4b1) the power of judicial decisions

4b2) of authority to manage domestic affairs

4c) metonymically

4c1) a thing subject to authority or rule

4c1a) jurisdiction

4c2) one who possesses authority

4c2a) a ruler, a human magistrate

4c2b) the leading and more powerful among created beings superior to man, spiritual potentates

4d) a sign of the husband’s authority over his wife

4d1) the veil with which propriety required a women to cover herself

4e) the sign of regal authority, a crown

Part of Speech: noun feminine

A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from G1832 (in the sense of ability)

Citing in TDNT: 2:562, 238


​

Both are referring to the kingdom of God, the kingdom of heaven . . .



They are one and the same thing.



Peace to all!

your thought with a little strongs

not conclusive

once again lets go to scripture

 

[A Brethren IN CHRIST]

lets look at scripture to find out what these two different words describe each.

please help

Matt 3:2 kingdom of heaven

Matt 4:23
Matt 5:3
Matt 5:20
Matt 13:11, 24 wheat and tares
who are the wheat and the tares?.....believer and unbelievers...
,31,33,44,47, 49 mixed kingdom wicked and just
Mat 18:3
Matt 19:23...its possible that a rich man enter

matt 6:33 seek ye first the kingdom of God
Matt 19:24... not possible that a rich man enter with out God
mark 1:15
mark 4:26
mark 9:47
mark 10:24,25
mark 12:34
mark 14:25
luke 8:10
luke 10:9,11
luke 13:18,20,29
luke 14:15
luke 16:16
luke 17:20,21.... Kingdom of God with in you

romans 8:9b... if any man have not the spirit of Christ, he is none of His

John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth whom the world cannot recieve, because it seeth Him not neither knoweth Him: but ye know Him by faith; for He dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. [?at Pentacost]

luke 18:24,24,29

maybe av1611 can help if there is more with verses

But what I have been taught is that these two kingdom are both going threw the great white throne judgement yet like a state goverment working with a federal government both are true yet different

One has believers and unbelievers...kingdom of heaven

spirit beings and believers .... kingdom of God

 

[Iosias]

3:2 And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

(1) The phrase, kingdom of heaven (lit. of the heavens), is peculiar to Matthew and signifies the Messianic earth rule of Jesus Christ, the Son of David. It is called the kingdom of the heavens because it is the rule of the heavens over the earth Matthew 6:10 The phrase is derived from Daniel, where it is defined ; Daniel 2:34-36,44; Daniel 7:23-27 as the kingdom which the God of heaven will set up after the destruction by "the stone cut out without hands," of the Gentile world-system. It is the kingdom covenanted to David's seed 2 Samuel 7:7-10 described in the prophets; (See Scofield "Zechariah 12:8") and confirmed to Jesus the Christ, the Son of Mary, through the angel Gabriel Luke 1:32,33.

(2) The kingdom of heaven has three aspects in Matthew:

(a) "at hand" from the beginning of the ministry of John the Baptist Matthew 3:2 to the virtual rejection of the King, and the announcement of the new brotherhood Matthew 12:46-50

(b) in seven "mysteries of the kingdom of heaven," to be fulfilled during the present age Matthew 13:1-52 to which are to be added the parables of the kingdom of heaven which were spoken after those of Mt. 13., and which have to do with the sphere of Christian profession during this age; (c) the prophetic aspect--the kingdom to be set up after the return of the King in glory. Matthew 24:29-25:46; Luke 19:12-19; Acts 15:14-17 See "Kingdom (N.T.)" ; Luke 1:33; 1 Corinthians 15:28 Cf. "Kingdom of God," (See Scofield "Matthew 6:33") .

​

 

[A Brethren IN CHRIST]

what are saying?

 

[A Brethren IN CHRIST]

what about the kingdom of God

 

[A Brethren IN CHRIST]

3:2 And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

(b) in seven "mysteries of the kingdom of heaven," to be fulfilled during the present age Matthew 13:1-52 to which are to be added the parables of the kingdom of heaven which were spoken after those of Mt. 13., and which have to do with the sphere of Christian profession during this age; (c) the prophetic aspect--the kingdom to be set up after the return of the King in glory. Matthew 24:29-25:46; Luke 19:12-19; Acts 15:14-17 See "Kingdom (N.T.)" ; Luke 1:33; 1 Corinthians 15:28 Cf. "Kingdom of God," (See Scofield "Matthew 6:33") .


​

there is no christian at this time this is the book of Matt .
Jesus came to the Jews to offer the kingdom of heaven but they rejected him as King

Christians do not exist till Acts where the Holy spirit starts putting believer into the Christ which is explained in 1cor, eph

when did Jesus name change after the cross

 

[@@Paul@@]

what about the kingdom of God

I think you pretty much have the differences listed.

One has believers and unbelievers...kingdom of heaven

spirit beings and believers .... kingdom of God

one is the promised kingdom to israel... kingdom of heaven
one title includes all of God's kingdom... kingdom of God.

one pertains ONLY to the physical side of God's kingdom... kingdom of heaven
one pertains to both aspects of God's kingdom (spiritual & physical)... kingdom of God

 

[thereselittleflower]

your thought with a little strongs

not conclusive

once again lets go to scripture

However, what you are asking is not that we go with scripture, but simply with your interpretation of scripture . . .


Peace to all!