Killings by Police Declined after Black Lives Matter Protests

[ThatRobGuy]

According to "mapping police violence" (which does have an existing bias, and not a "pro-police" one)

Doesn't appear that the number of overall police killings are down.

However, the number of police killings of unarmed people has been going down for the the better part of a decade at this point...

However, that's a trend was already in motion
(had to grab this from an older screenshot I made on a post about a year ago because the option to filter by armed vs. unarmed is no longer available on their tableau feed... that particular piece of data must not be something they wanted people to delve into)

National Trends — Mapping Police Violence

Wayback machine still has it though.

In any case, police accountability (with regards to unarmed people) was already moving in the right direction before the massive BLM protests took place.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

A refutation of the refrain "BuT PrOtEsTiNg DoEsN'T AcCoMpLiSh AnYtHinG!!!" I often hear with regard to protests almost exclusively from those who disagree with the message the protest is about.

You'll have to be more specific to which particular BLM message you're referring to

If you're referring to the message about creating more accountability for police...absolutely, I'm 100% on board. Dismantling white supremacy, that's another yes for me...no place for neo-nazis and klansman in a civilized society.

Dismantling capitalism? Dismantling the 'patriarchy'?...doesn't really seem to be related to semantically implied mission statement of the group.


Groups need to be more direct and single-threaded in their purposes if they have a specific societal aspect they want changed... rather than naming their group after a noble sounding purpose that everyone would agree on, but then lumping in a bunch of unrelated ideologies in with it, and then there's pushback against those unrelated ideologies, accusing people of "not caring about" the originally stated ideology.

It's the same reason why I oppose PETA despite the fact that I'm a "person in favor of the ethical treatment of animals"

When the discussions about BLM occur, it's the equivalent of this:

"Hey, I started a group called End Toxic Dumping, abbreviated #ETD"
- That sounds good, I'm definitely against companies dumping toxic materials in the water
"Awesome, our group is also for lowering the age of consent to 14, forced euthanasia at age 70, and vandalizing the businesses of any person who disagrees with those other two things...you still in?"
- Absolutely not! I find those ideas despicable!
"Oh, so I guess you don't care about water pollution then!"


If BLM dropped all the postmodern feminist theory and anti-capitalism drivel, I'd proudly slap a BLM sticker on the back of my car.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Killings by Police Declined after Black Lives Matter Protests

The study, posted in February as an online preprint item on the Social Science Research Network, is the first of its kind to measure a possible correlation between BLM and police homicide numbers. It found that municipalities where BLM protests have been held experienced as much as a 20 percent decrease in killings by police, resulting in an estimated 300 fewer deaths nationwide in 2014–2019. The occurrence of local protests increased the likelihood of police departments adopting body-worn cameras and community-policing initiatives, the study also found. Many cities with larger and more frequent BLM protests experienced greater declines in police homicides.
​

A refutation of the refrain "BuT PrOtEsTiNg DoEsN'T AcCoMpLiSh AnYtHinG!!!" I often hear with regard to protests almost exclusively from those who disagree with the message the protest is about.

Certainly, not enough, but it at least shows some progress.

Social Science Research Network?

Is that a peer reviewed journal of some kind?

 

[Ana the Ist]

Killings by Police Declined after Black Lives Matter Protests

The study, posted in February as an online preprint item on the Social Science Research Network, is the first of its kind to measure a possible correlation between BLM and police homicide numbers. It found that municipalities where BLM protests have been held experienced as much as a 20 percent decrease in killings by police, resulting in an estimated 300 fewer deaths nationwide in 2014–2019. The occurrence of local protests increased the likelihood of police departments adopting body-worn cameras and community-policing initiatives, the study also found. Many cities with larger and more frequent BLM protests experienced greater declines in police homicides.
​

A refutation of the refrain "BuT PrOtEsTiNg DoEsN'T AcCoMpLiSh AnYtHinG!!!" I often hear with regard to protests almost exclusively from those who disagree with the message the protest is about.

Certainly, not enough, but it at least shows some progress.

Here we go....from page 2....

"Second, there may be characteristics that influence the likelihood of BLM protests that also affect police lethal-force, some of which may be unobservable. Research has found the following are significant correlates of BLM protests: poverty, educational attainment, population size, police killings, the democratic vote share, and the portion of the population that is black (Trump et al., 2018). Many vital characteristics may not be observable and, if not directly related to police homicides, may be correlated with determinants of lethal force."

Translation....there's too many factors to measure here, so this is a 41 page guess.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

You'll have to be more specific to which particular BLM message you're referring to

If you're referring to the message about creating more accountability for police...absolutely, I'm 100% on board. Dismantling white supremacy, that's another yes for me...no place for neo-nazis and klansman in a civilized society.

Dismantling capitalism? Dismantling the 'patriarchy'?...doesn't really seem to be related to semantically implied mission statement of the group.


Groups need to be more direct and single-threaded in their purposes if they have a specific societal aspect they want changed... rather than naming their group after a noble sounding purpose that everyone would agree on, but then lumping in a bunch of unrelated ideologies in with it, and then there's pushback against those unrelated ideologies, accusing people of "not caring about" the originally stated ideology.

It's the same reason why I oppose PETA despite the fact that I'm a "person in favor of the ethical treatment of animals"

When the discussions about BLM occur, it's the equivalent of this:

"Hey, I started a group called End Toxic Dumping, abbreviated #ETD"
- That sounds good, I'm definitely against companies dumping toxic materials in the water
"Awesome, our group is also for lowering the age of consent to 14, forced euthanasia at age 70, and vandalizing the businesses of any person who disagrees with those other two things...you still in?"
- Absolutely not! I find those ideas despicable!
"Oh, so I guess you don't care about water pollution then!"


If BLM dropped all the postmodern feminist theory and anti-capitalism drivel, I'd proudly slap a BLM sticker on the back of my car.

It seems that BLM's goal is to prolong the racial divide as long as possible. Could it be that these radicals see it slipping away?

 

[rambot]

It seems that BLM's goal is to prolong the racial divide as long as possible. Could it be that these radicals see it slipping away?

BLM and plain white folk sure have a lot in common then eh?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

BLM and plain white folk sure have a lot in common then eh?

Some do, for sure.

 

[rambot]

Some do, for sure.

I'd argue quite a lot....maybe up to 30%.

 

[ralliann]

BLM and plain white folk sure have a lot in common then eh?

Well yeah. We have seen them at the riots screaming at police etc.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I'd argue quite a lot....maybe up to 30%.

I don't think a third of white Americans have much to gain by prolonging racism. In fact the fight against racism costs money better spent elsewhere. Some blacks might benefit however as it prolongs their disadvantaged status and keeps alive the possibility of more government spending coming their way.

 

[rambot]

I don't think a third of white Americans have much to gain by prolonging racism. In fact the fight against racism costs money better spent elsewhere. .

Oh guy. I think it's a dreadful mistake to think that people who distrust someone else are doing that because they are trying to GAIN something.

When people are guided by fear/hatred, they are thinking and reasoning with the reptilian part of their brain and NOT the forebrain that allows for strong executive functioning. It's a mistake to think that they are making that choice to hate because they have something to GAIN.
It may seem airy fairy, but it's not. It's human behaviour.
That's just biology.

You also make a straaange case against fighting against racism. Is it possible that you WANT racism in America?
No of course not. That's stupid. You just don't want it to be dealt with? For the situation to improve?

Also, there is a consistent tenor (though, perhaps subtle) in your posts that blame blacks for the racism in America.

Pray, are you the kind of person who blames the rape victim for being raped as well?

Some blacks might benefit however as it prolongs their disadvantaged status and keeps alive the possibility of more government spending coming their way

Yeah. I don't think the three of four blacks who do not live in poverty have that same measure of vested interest. This sounds more just like

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Oh guy. I think it's a dreadful mistake to think that people who distrust someone else are doing that because they are trying to GAIN something.

When people are guided by fear/hatred, they are thinking and reasoning with the reptilian part of their brain and NOT the forebrain that allows for strong executive functioning. It's a mistake to think that they are making that choice to hate because they have something to GAIN.
It may seem airy fairy, but it's not. It's human behaviour.
That's just biology.

You also make a straaange case against fighting against racism. Is it possible that you WANT racism in America?
No of course not. That's stupid. You just don't want it to be dealt with? For the situation to improve?

Also, there is a consistent tenor (though, perhaps subtle) in your posts that blame blacks for the racism in America.

Pray, are you the kind of person who blames the rape victim for being raped as well?
Yeah. I don't think the three of four blacks who do not live in poverty have that same measure of vested interest. This sounds more just like

I don't think racism is the problem it's being made out to be. The belief is being kept alive for reasons that I don't believe are beneficial the supposed aggrieved party.

My consistent message is that blacks hold their own financial future in their hands. It is important because nearly every problem in the black community is connected to the way money is managed there.

If some are out of step and lagging behind the whole parade isn't going to stop and wait for them to catch up. They have the choice of quickening their pace and catching up, or starting their own parade.

 

[rambot]

I don't think racism is the problem it's being made out to be. The belief is being kept alive for reasons that I don't believe are beneficial the supposed aggrieved party.

1) It truly doesn't matter whether you think racism is a problem.
2) Why do you call it a belief if black people are telling you it is a REAL problem?
Do you not trust or listen or communicate with black people?

Why is it hard for you to believe that black people's experience of America is different from yours and, maybe even, unpleasant? Why would all these black people be lying about that? 75% of black people are self sufficient; what is the benefit for them to suggest that America has a problem with racism since the ONLY sentient argument you've given is that "some black folks will get more social assistance"? In this last post you suggest there are reasons. What are some other benefits blacks have of experiencing racism in America? In what other ways does racism make their life better?

I'm currently reading a book called "The Hate U Give" with my class. I work in a high needs area of town (in the whitest whitey area of canada) and even they will say that their experience of living in North America is NOTHING like that. I'm curious if you were to read that book if you'd believe your experience in America is similar.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

1) It truly doesn't matter whether you think racism is a problem.
2) Why do you call it a belief if black people are telling you it is a REAL problem?
Do you not trust or listen or communicate with black people?

Why is it hard for you to believe that black people's experience of America is different from yours and, maybe even, unpleasant? Why would all these black people be lying about that? 75% of black people are self sufficient; what is the benefit for them to suggest that America has a problem with racism since the ONLY sentient argument you've given is that "some black folks will get more social assistance"? In this last post you suggest there are reasons. What are some other benefits blacks have of experiencing racism in America? In what other ways does racism make their life better?

I'm currently reading a book called "The Hate U Give" with my class. I work in a high needs area of town (in the whitest whitey area of canada) and even they will say that their experience of living in North America is NOTHING like that. I'm curious if you were to read that book if you'd believe your experience in America is similar.

To lift themselves up many blacks must abandon much of their culture. This is the biggest "race" problem they face, as the only reasonable alternative to their culture is...white culture. They are darned if they do, and darned if they don't. This is not a problem white people can solve. They carry a self-imposed handicap on their shoulders. We didn't put it there, and we can't lift it off.

The long and short of it is that blacks have a culture that doesn't lend itself to financial success in the long term.

 

[rambot]

To lift themselves up many blacks must abandon much of their culture.

I am not labelling you as such because I don't think you are, but I want to point out to you that this statement is ACTUALLY racist. EVEN as I how I define the term which is MUCH MUCH more restrictive than current culture.

For me: Racism is about expressing the supposed inferiority of another race.
You state:
Blacks have to stop being black to "lift themselves up". There's a LOT of different ways that could have been expressed, but you, in particular chose that visual of lifting UP....presumably because they are lower. And that's weird to me because it seems like this is the argument given by ONLY two groups: People who view "black culture" (really, they don't mean black culture but "rap" culture instead) as a draw back AND the few rap culture folk who start calling other successful black people "Uncle Tom"s due to their success.

To be clear, I found this handy dandy wikipedia article on "African-American culture" which turns out to be, well, pretty darn complex. And I worry a bit because sometimes people who are prone to racist statements tend to simplify the target of their derision to be able to understand and "help" better.
So I'm hoping you may be able to point out which parts of the African-American culture that blacks in America need to abandon:
African-American culture - Wikipedia

 

[ThatRobGuy]

BLM and plain white folk sure have a lot in common then eh?

There's a difference between prolonging the racial divide based on purely reasons of race, and prolonging it by lumping in a bunch of unrelated ideologies in with the cause, and then accusing those who reject those unrelated matters as "not caring about the black community" or the implication that it's coming from a place of racism.

I don't doubt that there are people who are just downright bitter about losing their elevated status, you'll always have some people like that when you have a group that once had preferential status (sort of like a former only child who feels that their "the victim" when mommy and daddy don't give them all the attention anymore). Which is why you had/have certain white people who were bitter about losing their preferential status when non-whites started getting equality, much you like you have certain Christians who are bitter about losing elevated societal status, and cry "there's a War on Christianity!" when a store puts up a Happy Holidays sign.

However, any and all animus toward BLM, as an organization, shouldn't be lumped in with aforementioned rationale...

The wider the ideological net that's cast by an ideological movement, the tougher it is to know why exactly someone is opposing it. That's a strategic blunder on their part...if you introduce anti-capitalist and radical-feminist undertones into your group's mission statement, you run the risk of losing support from people who would otherwise 100% embrace the originally stated cause.


For the record, any group that lists "dismantling capitalism" as one of their objectives, they're not going to get my support no matter what. I don't care if the group is called "Stop throwing sacks of kittens into the river". I'll find another anti Kitten-drowning group that doesn't require me to give a tacit endorsement of failed marxist principles.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I am not labelling you as such because I don't think you are, but I want to point out to you that this statement is ACTUALLY racist. EVEN as I how I define the term which is MUCH MUCH more restrictive than current culture.

For me: Racism is about expressing the supposed inferiority of another race.
You state:
Blacks have to stop being black to "lift themselves up". There's a LOT of different ways that could have been expressed, but you, in particular chose that visual of lifting UP....presumably because they are lower. And that's weird to me because it seems like this is the argument given by ONLY two groups: People who view "black culture" (really, they don't mean black culture but "rap" culture instead) as a draw back AND the few rap culture folk who start calling other successful black people "Uncle Tom"s due to their success.

To be clear, I found this handy dandy wikipedia article on "African-American culture" which turns out to be, well, pretty darn complex. And I worry a bit because sometimes people who are prone to racist statements tend to simplify the target of their derision to be able to understand and "help" better.
So I'm hoping you may be able to point out which parts of the African-American culture that blacks in America need to abandon:
African-American culture - Wikipedia

You mangled my post beyond recognition, therefore I cannot respond to your statements or questions.

There are more contemporary and enlightening articles on black culture related to this discussion than the Wiki article.

Nearly everything that blacks, and those who speak for them, complain about centers around money.

And the money issue centers around wealth (blacks have plenty of disposable income).

Wealth and wealth-building is dependent upon capital formation, which can raise every aspect of black life.

Capital formation, whether for the family or the community, is dependent upon savings and investing.

The formation of capital is capitalism. BLM advocates for black capitalism (at the expense of white capitalism of course).

The formation of black capital is the only thing that will raise (lift) the black community as a whole into the middle class.

However, blacks aren't disposed to saving or investing, for a variety of reasons, some legitimate, most not.

The whole subject of black poverty, education, employment, health, healthcare, business, etc. centers around the absolute need for black capital formation through saving and investment. You can't build wealth through loans and welfare programs.

Blacks had the opportunity to begin building black capital as far back as the 1970's. The black community has had fifty years to build generational wealth through black capitalism. Perhaps they will do better in the next fifty years.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

For the record, any group that lists "dismantling capitalism" as one of their objectives, they're not going to get my support no matter what. I don't care if the group is called "Stop throwing sacks of kittens into the river". I'll find another anti Kitten-drowning group that doesn't require me to give a tacit endorsement of failed marxist principles.

Actually they want blacks to support black business and thus build 'black capitalism', but they want to destroy white capitalism in the bargain. Of course this will be self-defeating unless they can build actual black capital that will serve and improve the whole community and build generational wealth for families.

Let's hope they do so we all can put this systemic racism nonsense behind us.