Killed on Death Row - Innocent People.

[DogmaHunter]

(Most) atheists are like evolutionary scientists who would rather 'study' a polluted lake than help to clean it up. As a result our lakes are full of pollutants and our prisons are full of killers. Both greatly reduce the quality of life for everyone.

I got news for you.... societal health indexes, which are like the measures of overall quality of life, core better in countries without the death penalty.

 

[Mountainmanbob]

It's time to get the innocent ones off death row and out of prison and the guilty ones to a sooner death.
M-Bob

 

[OldWiseGuy]

AND it is FOR PROFIT - NOT for justice.
ISRAEL had rules for JUSTICE, not for profit. They had no prisons - no jail sentences, and they had RULES for TRUE JUSTICE (when it was practiced).

They did not waste millions per day practicing NO JUSTICE defending bad guys who are obviously guilty, and it did not take millions to clear the innocent, nor did they take anything to pay to support millions of prisoners, draining money from the poor and oppressed to take care of the prisoners, PROFITING the SYSTEM, guilty or not.

They system USA is set up UNjustly, FOR PROFIT, bribes and kickbacks overwhelming.

I like the German system, which treats even murderers humanely. Our system is based on retribution not rehabilitation. I still favor the dp for certain crimes.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I got news for you.... societal health indexes, which are like the measures of overall quality of life, core better in countries without the death penalty.

We can have our cake and eat it too. Treat prisoners humanely, and put heinous criminals to death. That will satisfy liberals, conservatives, and justice.

 

[DogmaHunter]

We can have our cake and eat it too. Treat prisoners humanely, and put heinous criminals to death. That will satisfy liberals, conservatives, and justice.

And how do you define "heinous" crimes? How are you going to draw that line?

 

[bhsmte]

And how do you define "heinous" crimes? How are you going to draw that line?

Good question.

 

[stevenfrancis]

Although we may never know the exact amount. Many people have been executed on Death Row. After their execution new evidence has shown that they were innocent of the crime.

My question is - Is it time to end the Death Penalty? before more innocent lives are taken away.

When I reflect on this, I find that I am essentially agnostic on the death penalty. God Himself was subject to this penalty for charges that seem very small to us in these modern times. There is no evidence in the Gospels that Jesus, (even from the cross itself) condemned this penalty. He forgave those who performed it in His case, (as He was innocent, and allowing this torture for our sakes). There is much against murder, but in a civil society the death penalty is not murder. It is justice for a generally horrific crime. Even then, the person to be executed has ample opportunity for Christian conversion in civil societies, so they are in a sense escaping a life of misery in a cold, mean prison. At the same time, I suppose it should be quite rare, and applied only as justice rather than vengeance (there is a difference) which is the province of the Lord alone. While no dogmatic teaching is extant in the Church, the past few Popes, and most of the Bishop's conferences have made it known that it is a matter of the state, and if it is felt to be necessary by the state, then it IS in fact a licit penalty for crimes to which this penalty is given. They are quick to add that there is no reason in most countries in modernity to ever apply this penalty in the interest of public safety, which calls into question whether it may in fact end up being applied as an act of vengeance rather than justice. It is a rich and complex subject in the end which I don't feel qualified to judge. I pray for those who will be executed that they become Christian disciples before their demise. I pray for the executioners that their hearts are not troubled. I pray for the jurors that their decision be guided by the Holy Spirit. I pray for the victims that their hearts be filled with forgiveness, even in their pain and suffering. I guess overall I would prefer that it wasn't used. But then again, when Tim McVeigh was executed, I didn't lose too much sleep. I think all of you are right in your answers to this matter. As I said, there is not a dogmatic teaching at this time. I suspect one will come within my lifetime, and I will be obedient in my heart to that teaching.

 

[ViaCrucis]

As a Christian I can't in good conscience support the death penalty.

I think there can be exceptions where the death of an individual may be required for the common peace, but that this should be exceedingly far and few between. On issues such as this I tend to think of Pastor Bonhoeffer. Bonhoeffer was a strong advocate of Christian non-violence, but who nevertheless ended up participating in the plot to assassinate Hitler. His position was fundamentally that Hitler represented an evil so horrific that it was necessary to try and remove him. And even here Bonhoeffer recognized that as a matter of ethics it was still a troublesome one, and that ultimately he could do nothing but abide by conscience and hope for mercy.

This may seem like a contradiction, though I am mostly putting forward that the death penalty as a matter of course is unethical; but that there may be occasions where it can be justified. Attempting to kill Adolf Hitler in an assassination plot is an example of where the death of an individual can be justified, though obviously a pretty extreme example. But that's kind of my point.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

As a Christian I can't in good conscience support the death penalty.

Don't think you have to support it nor defend it.
As far as I could find out the early believers would not go testify in court against someone if the death of them would result.
They also did not "fight" the rules/ government to change their rules - they prayed and left it to YHVH, DOing as Jesus says. This worked for them just as Jesus says it does for us.

 

[bhsmte]

Don't think you have to support it nor defend it.
As far as I could find out the early believers would not go testify in court against someone if the death of them would result.
They also did not "fight" the rules/ government to change their rules - they prayed and left it to YHVH, DOing as Jesus says. This worked for them just as Jesus says it does for us.

It is up to others to determine whether they support something.

If leaving something up to YHVH works for you, knock yourself out.

 

[UnseenSaviour]

I undersand and respect all the points of view on this issue.
For me personally I am plagued with this thought - What if it was you that was falsely accused and put on death row? What if it was your mother? your daughter? your son? your best friend? What if you were to never to see them again?
The thought of an innocent person being killed on death row and the damage this would do to their family and friends... means I just cannot support the death penalty.

 

[SheldonCooper]

I undersand and respect all the points of view on this issue.
For me personally I am plagued with this thought - What if it was you that was falsely accused and put on death row? What if it was your mother? your daughter? your son? your best friend? What if you were to never to see them again?
The thought of an innocent person being killed on death row and the damage this would do to their family and friends... means I just cannot support the death penalty.

The irony that many Christians approve of the death penalty and show no empathy to innocent people who have died from the death penalty yet approve and worship a Jesus Christ who was innocent and died via the death penalty by His own people.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

QUOTE="UnseenSaviour, post: 72441063, member: 407823"]I undersand and respect all the points of view on this issue.
For me personally I am plagued with this thought - What if it was you that was falsely accused and put on death row? What if it was your mother? your daughter? your son? your best friend? What if you were to never to see them again?
The thought of an innocent person being killed on death row and the damage this would do to their family and friends... means I just cannot support the death penalty.[/QUOTE
You don't have to support it. Did anyone ask you to ?
Your reasons might be questioned -
do you realize how many people die every day in each state or country?
do you realize how few are on death row ?
do you realize how many little ones die every year from preventable hunger and thirst ? (thousands of times MORE than those on death row all together added up for the last 50 years)

 

[SnowTiger]

I will always remember Troy Davis. A lot of people believed he was innocent. I'm not sure he was, but I think it would have been better to spare his life because there was some doubt regarding his case.

I'm also against the death penalty even for those who are truly guilty.