Kerry’s Rage Against Israel

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John Kerry was spot on about Israel.


I believe that Benjamin Netanyahu was spot on about Kerry and the settlements.


"This conflict is not about settlements. It never was. The conflict raged for decades before there was a single settlement, when Judea Samari and Gaza were all in Arab hands." - Benjamin Netanyahu

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu described Kerry's focus on Israeli settlements as obsessive, saying his "biased" comments ignored the "root of the conflict."

"For more than an hour, Kerry obsessed over the issue of settlements and hardly touched on the root of the conflict - Palestinian resistance to a Jewish state within any borders," the premier said.

Netanyahu: Kerry obsessed with settlements, ignores 'root of conflict'

“The State of Israel is ready, I am ready to negotiate all final status, but one thing I will never negotiate is the right to the one and only Jewish state,” he said, inviting Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas to speak to the Israeli people at the Knesset in Jerusalem and “gladly” offering to speak to the Palestinian parliament in Ramallah.

But, he said, nearly 70 years after Israel’s rebirth the Palestinians still refuse to recognize its rights – “not our right to a homeland, not our right to a state, not our right to anything. And this remains the true core of the conflict, the persistent Palestinian refusal to recognize the Jewish state in any boundary. You see, this conflict is not about the settlements. It never was,” he said.

“When the Palestinians finally say 'yes' to a Jewish State, we will be able to end this conflict once and for all, because, see, the Palestinians are not only trapped in the past, their leaders are poisoning the future,” he added, accusing them of brainwashing their children, with officials calling on them “to slit the throats of Israelis wherever you find them,” he said.

Mr. Netanyahu quoted Mr. Abbas himself as saying 'we welcome every drop of blood spilled in Jerusalem,' and quoted senior Palestinian official Jibril Rajoub as saying that if he had a nuclear bomb, he’d detonate it over Israel.

“This conflict rages because for the Palestinians, the real settlements they’re after are Haifa, Jaffa and Tel Aviv,” he declared. “So I call on President Abbas: you have a choice to make. You can continue to stoke hatred as you did today or you can finally confront hatred and work with me to establish peace between our two peoples.”

UN News - At UN, Israel’s Netanyahu says conflict is ‘not about settlements’ but existence of a Jewish State
 
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As a Christian I will always stand with Israel.

And I will make you a great nation,
And I will bless you,
And make your name great;
And so you shall be a blessing;
And I will bless those who bless you,
And the one who curses you I will curse.
And in you all the families of the earth will be blessed.” (NASB) Gen. 12:2-3

Should Christians support the nation of Israel?

Why Stand With Israel Today? | Jack Hayford Ministries

A couple of things from a Christian perspective: 1) The modern state of Israel is not the same as the Israel of the scriptures. Israel is not a place, but a people. Christians were grafted into Israel. Those Jews that accepted Christ were part of Israel. Those that rejected Christ after Christ was here have rejected Israel. 2) Whether or not modern Jews accept Christ has no bearing on how we should treat them (golden rule). 3) The modern state of Israel is not exempt from being criticized, et cetera just because they have slapped the name Israel over everything. 4) What the settlements have done to the inhabitants that were already there is criminal. The settlers and their actions are often wicked.

Romans 9:4-8
4 who are Israelites, to whom pertain the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the service of God, and the promises; 5 of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God. Amen.

6 But it is not that the word of God has taken no effect. For they are not all Israel who are of Israel, 7 nor are they all children because they are the seed of Abraham; but, “In Isaac your seed shall be called.”[a] 8 That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God; but the children of the promise are counted as the seed.
 
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Followers4christ

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A couple of things from a Christian perspective: 1) The modern state of Israel is not the same as the Israel of the scriptures. Israel is not a place, but a people. Christians were grafted into Israel. Those Jews that accepted Christ were part of Israel. Those that rejected Christ after Christ was here have rejected Israel. 2) Whether or not modern Jews accept Christ has no bearing on how we should treat them (golden rule). 3) The modern state of Israel is not exempt from being criticized, et cetera just because they have slapped the name Israel over everything. 4) What the settlements have done to the inhabitants that were already there is criminal. The settlers and their actions are often wicked.

Romans 9:4-8
4 who are Israelites, to whom pertain the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the service of God, and the promises; 5 of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God. Amen.

6 But it is not that the word of God has taken no effect. For they are not all Israel who are of Israel, 7 nor are they all children because they are the seed of Abraham; but, “In Isaac your seed shall be called.”[a] 8 That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God; but the children of the promise are counted as the seed.


Replacement theology (or supersessionism) is not biblical. Romans 9:4-8 you mentioned talks about our adoption as sons and daughters of the most high that came from the Jews (John 4:22) in regards to our salvation (Galatians 3:28). But it does not mean that God is done with the nation of Israel. Here are some mainstream christian sources that talk about this theology more in depth:

"For I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery, lest you be wise in your own estimation, that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in; 26 and thus all Israel will be saved; just as it is written, 'The Deliverer will come from Zion, he will remove ungodliness from Jacob,'” (Rom. 11:25-26).

Some replacement theologians would teach that any mention of "Israel" after Acts chapter 2 (Pentecost) would be referring to the Christian church, but the above Scripture cannot be used to support that idea. In fact, it plainly contradicts it. Obviously, God is not done with Israel. The text tells us that God has hardened Israel but it also tells that disheartening is temporary.

What is replacement theology? | CARM Christian Apologetics & Research Ministry

Replacement theology teaches that the church is the replacement for Israel and that the many promises made to Israel in the Bible are fulfilled in the Christian church, not in Israel. The prophecies in Scripture concerning the blessing and restoration of Israel to the Promised Land are spiritualized or allegorized into promises of God’s blessing for the church. Major problems exist with this view, such as the continuing existence of the Jewish people throughout the centuries and especially with the revival of the modern state of Israel. If Israel has been condemned by God and there is no future for the Jewish nation, how do we explain the supernatural survival of the Jewish people over the past 2,000 years despite the many attempts to destroy them? How do we explain why and how Israel reappeared as a nation in the 20th century after not existing for 1,900 years?

The view that Israel and the church are different is clearly taught in the New Testament. Biblically speaking, the church is distinct from Israel, and the terms church and Israel are never to be confused or used interchangeably. We are taught from Scripture that the church is an entirely new creation that came into being on the day of Pentecost and will continue until it is taken to heaven at the rapture (Ephesians 1:9–11; 1 Thessalonians 4:13–17). The church has no relationship to the curses and blessings for Israel. The covenants, promises, and warnings of the Mosaic Covenant were valid only for Israel. Israel has been temporarily set aside in God’s program during these past 2,000 years of dispersion (see Romans 11).

What is replacement theology / supersessionism?

So where is the church now concerning this shift, it is mostly still divided. Interestingly though, along similar lines to those in the church who are holding to more conservative and liberal interpretations of Scripture. With those from the charismatic and Pentecostal denominations along with a mix of evangelicals opening up more and more towards the restoration of Israel and those from the liberal side of the church where church growth has been shrinking rapidly, still holding to the teachings of replacement theology.

Could those holding to a continued separation between Israel and the church be bordering the arrogance that the apostle Paul spoke of in Romans 11, thinking like the Pharisees that they have had God to themselves?

These are strong words, but they are written in a spirit of love for us in the church to re-align ourselves with our Father's plans. Yeshua/Jesus is very close to the door and we are still in a time of mercy for us to come into repentance and get it right (Romans 11:32).

Where Should the Church Stand Regarding Israel?

God's eternal purpose is to bless the world through Israel. Already He has done so in measure, for "salvation is from the Jews" (John 4:22), but the fullness of future blessing is indicated in the wondrous promise of Isaiah 27:6: "In days to come Jacob will take root, Israel will bud and blossom and fill all the world with fruit."

The declaration that "salvation is from the Jews” suggests our immeasurable debt to Israel. All that we have worth having has come to us through the Jews. Our Bible is a Jewish Book, and our Savior is a Jewish Savior. Let us never forget to pray for God's chosen people. It is true that Israel, today, is in the place of rejection. The nation is a secular, unbelieving (as to the claims of Scripture and their Messiah, Jesus Christ) nation; but "…at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace" (Romans 11:5). Some Jews are being saved and are becoming members of the body of Christ through faith in their Messiah.

Should Christians support the nation of Israel?

The Church at its inception was virtually entirely Jewish, and it remained so until the Gospel began to spread. Ultimately the Gospel spread to Antioch, where the first Gentile congregation began, the base from which the Gospel spread into all the world.

In the book of Romans, chapters 9 through 11, the apostle Paul deals with the question of the Jews in God's providence and purpose. Within the whole of the Bible, these three chapters virtually stand alone as an elaboration of the theology of God's dealing with Jews.

The Jews were the "firstfruit" ...the "first people" (through Abraham) to understand a covenant God. They then relayed the riches of that truth to the world, and through their agency, the Messiah came into the world.

The Word of God calls Jews the "root" and Gentiles the "branches." We're reminded that while "because of unbelief, some of them were broken off and you stand by faith," we are not to become haughty but to fear: "For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either." When the fullness of the Gentiles is completed, "all Israel will be saved." (Romans 11:16-27)

Why Stand With Israel Today? | Jack Hayford Ministries
 
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seashale76

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Replacement theology (or supersessionism) is not biblical. Romans 9:4-8 you mentioned talks about our adoption as sons and daughters of the most high that came from the Jews (John 4:22) in regards to our salvation (Galatians 3:28). But it does not mean that God is done with the nation of Israel. Here are some mainstream christian sources that talk about this theology more in depth:

"For I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery, lest you be wise in your own estimation, that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in; 26 and thus all Israel will be saved; just as it is written, 'The Deliverer will come from Zion, he will remove ungodliness from Jacob,'” (Rom. 11:25-26).

Some replacement theologians would teach that any mention of "Israel" after Acts chapter 2 (Pentecost) would be referring to the Christian church, but the above Scripture cannot be used to support that idea. In fact, it plainly contradicts it. Obviously, God is not done with Israel. The text tells us that God has hardened Israel but it also tells that disheartening is temporary.

What is replacement theology? | CARM Christian Apologetics & Research Ministry

Replacement theology teaches that the church is the replacement for Israel and that the many promises made to Israel in the Bible are fulfilled in the Christian church, not in Israel. The prophecies in Scripture concerning the blessing and restoration of Israel to the Promised Land are spiritualized or allegorized into promises of God’s blessing for the church. Major problems exist with this view, such as the continuing existence of the Jewish people throughout the centuries and especially with the revival of the modern state of Israel. If Israel has been condemned by God and there is no future for the Jewish nation, how do we explain the supernatural survival of the Jewish people over the past 2,000 years despite the many attempts to destroy them? How do we explain why and how Israel reappeared as a nation in the 20th century after not existing for 1,900 years?

The view that Israel and the church are different is clearly taught in the New Testament. Biblically speaking, the church is distinct from Israel, and the terms church and Israel are never to be confused or used interchangeably. We are taught from Scripture that the church is an entirely new creation that came into being on the day of Pentecost and will continue until it is taken to heaven at the rapture (Ephesians 1:9–11; 1 Thessalonians 4:13–17). The church has no relationship to the curses and blessings for Israel. The covenants, promises, and warnings of the Mosaic Covenant were valid only for Israel. Israel has been temporarily set aside in God’s program during these past 2,000 years of dispersion (see Romans 11).

What is replacement theology / supersessionism?

So where is the church now concerning this shift, it is mostly still divided. Interestingly though, along similar lines to those in the church who are holding to more conservative and liberal interpretations of Scripture. With those from the charismatic and Pentecostal denominations along with a mix of evangelicals opening up more and more towards the restoration of Israel and those from the liberal side of the church where church growth has been shrinking rapidly, still holding to the teachings of replacement theology.

Could those holding to a continued separation between Israel and the church be bordering the arrogance that the apostle Paul spoke of in Romans 11, thinking like the Pharisees that they have had God to themselves?

These are strong words, but they are written in a spirit of love for us in the church to re-align ourselves with our Father's plans. Yeshua/Jesus is very close to the door and we are still in a time of mercy for us to come into repentance and get it right (Romans 11:32).

Where Should the Church Stand Regarding Israel?

God's eternal purpose is to bless the world through Israel. Already He has done so in measure, for "salvation is from the Jews" (John 4:22), but the fullness of future blessing is indicated in the wondrous promise of Isaiah 27:6: "In days to come Jacob will take root, Israel will bud and blossom and fill all the world with fruit."

The declaration that "salvation is from the Jews” suggests our immeasurable debt to Israel. All that we have worth having has come to us through the Jews. Our Bible is a Jewish Book, and our Savior is a Jewish Savior. Let us never forget to pray for God's chosen people. It is true that Israel, today, is in the place of rejection. The nation is a secular, unbelieving (as to the claims of Scripture and their Messiah, Jesus Christ) nation; but "…at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace" (Romans 11:5). Some Jews are being saved and are becoming members of the body of Christ through faith in their Messiah.

Should Christians support the nation of Israel?
I don't care about your newfangled doctrines that appeared centuries after the Church was established. Even most Protestants don't believe this newfangled stuff of yours, that's how new it is.
 
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redleghunter

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Mr. Netanyahu quoted Mr. Abbas himself as saying 'we welcome every drop of blood spilled in Jerusalem,' and quoted senior Palestinian official Jibril Rajoub as saying that if he had a nuclear bomb, he’d detonate it over Israel.

Indeed and taught to their children with propaganda programs:

 
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You can't tell if there is a kid or adult at 15,000 ft going over 600 knots. Which means they should not have fired the missiles/rockets.

The fault squarely is on whatever intelligence received on the target area. Meaning even with good intelligence one needs positive ID (PID) of a target. They obviously did not by their own admission which means someone in the target chain should be under charges for murder.

They have a culture of not caring for civilian lives. Israel hit a UN school-shelter despite being given the coordinates for it 17 times, resulting in civilian casualties. There weren't any weapons discovered at, or fired from, these places.

These children were not a threat yet they were targeted.

Assad on the other hand, is applying old Russian Soviet scorch and burn without regard to human life.

That's what Israel does, except Assad and allies took it up a few notches, so much so that even Israel seems to feel some sympathy for the Syrians. But it's all from the same playbook, from calling the victims terrorists to intentionally targeting civilians. And similar to the regime, Israel did not allow UN inspectors (which have been favorable to both Assad and Israel in the past) to come in.
 
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Followers4christ

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I don't care about your newfangled doctrines that appeared centuries after the Church was established. Even most Protestants don't believe this newfangled stuff of yours, that's how new it is.
Of course you do not care because it challenges your worldview. It is easier to hide from that which challenges your worldview instead of being a critical thinker and taking criticism that might challenge you to dive deeper in to the scripture. Lets not forget that people who studied prophecy for years and years of the coming Messiah got it wrong. They crucified the Messiah and killed his disciples. People and the church have got it wrong before. Everything I said was backed up with scripture and christian resources.
 
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Indeed and taught to their children with propaganda programs:


I watched it. What sorts of things do you think they should say in light of their history (of being a dispossessed people)? Should they be taught to be subservient to their occupiers instead of resisting the oppression and illegal occupation? Should they be taught to be slaves to these subhumans:

From 2009 (apparently Israeli soldiers get these, or similar shirts, custom printed for themselves):
6a00d8341cc8ad53ef01127982adff28a4-pi.jpg


A sharpshooter's T-shirt from the Givati Brigade's Shaked battalion shows a pregnant Palestinian woman with a bull's-eye superimposed on her belly, with the slogan, in English, "1 shot, 2 kills."

....the Lavi battalion produced a shirt featuring a drawing of a soldier next to a young woman with bruises, and the slogan, "Bet you got raped!"


Racist and sexist military shirts show the fruits of Israeli militarism

From 2013:

Israeli-soldier-posts-dis-008.jpg


An Israeli soldier has sparked outrage by posting a photograph appearing to show the back of a Palestinian boy's head in the crosshairs of his sniper rifle on a social networking site.

Israeli soldier posts Instagram image of Palestinian child in crosshairs of rifle | World news | theguardian.com
 
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redleghunter

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They have a culture of not caring for civilian lives. Israel hit a UN school-shelter despite being given the coordinates for it 17 times, resulting in civilian casualties. There weren't any weapons discovered at, or fired from, these places.
Apparently your assessment is inaccurate.

As I posted previously :

Palestinians Flee Gaza After Israel Drops Warning Leaflets

https://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/09/...aflet-israeli-attackers-warn-gazans.html?_r=0

Israel warns Gaza residents to leave before strikes - CNN.com

You won't find Assad's regime doing such.

Did Hamas warn Israeli citizens of their rocket attacks?
 
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redleghunter

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I watched it. What sorts of things do you think they should say in light of their history (of being a dispossessed people)? Should they be taught to be subservient to their occupiers instead of resisting the oppression and illegal occupation? Should they be taught to be slaves to these subhumans:

From 2009 (apparently Israeli soldiers get these, or similar shirts, custom printed for themselves):
6a00d8341cc8ad53ef01127982adff28a4-pi.jpg


A sharpshooter's T-shirt from the Givati Brigade's Shaked battalion shows a pregnant Palestinian woman with a bull's-eye superimposed on her belly, with the slogan, in English, "1 shot, 2 kills."

....the Lavi battalion produced a shirt featuring a drawing of a soldier next to a young woman with bruises, and the slogan, "Bet you got raped!"


Racist and sexist military shirts show the fruits of Israeli militarism

From 2013:

Israeli-soldier-posts-dis-008.jpg


An Israeli soldier has sparked outrage by posting a photograph appearing to show the back of a Palestinian boy's head in the crosshairs of his sniper rifle on a social networking site.

Israeli soldier posts Instagram image of Palestinian child in crosshairs of rifle | World news | theguardian.com

Muddying the water. This is official Palestinian TV indoctrinating children to wipe Israel from the map using a false history.

As opposed to adults wearing offensive t shirts. Show me an Israeli TV show teaching all Palestinians must die. Encouraging kids to use an AK.

Here's more if the last video is not persuasive :

Kids TV praises Gaza mom's suicide bombing - CNN.com

Horrific video of a child sending her suicide bomber mother to her death | Daily Mail Online
 
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I don't care about your newfangled doctrines that appeared centuries after the Church was established. Even most Protestants don't believe this newfangled stuff of yours, that's how new it is.

Also let me add to your assumption "appeared centuries after the church", The Church at its inception was virtually entirely Jewish, and it remained so until the Gospel began to spread. Our Bible is a Jewish Book, and our Savior was born in Israel. So The Church was Jewish when it was established.
 
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I watched it. What sorts of things do you think they should say in light of their history (of being a dispossessed people)? Should they be taught to be subservient to their occupiers instead of resisting the oppression and illegal occupation? Should they be taught to be slaves to these subhumans:

Your concept of who the Jews are is very clear--"subhuman"--
But it is very clear also, that Israel warned with leaflets about a coming attack, and all those dispossessed humans ran and left their children behind to be killed.
Dispossessed? It is the Jewish land in question, the land given to them by God long before any so called Muslim or Palestinian was born.
 
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Muddying the water. This is official Palestinian TV indoctrinating children to wipe Israel from the map using a false history.

As opposed to adults wearing offensive t shirts. Show me an Israeli TV show teaching all Palestinians must die. Encouraging kids to use an AK.

Here's more if the last video is not persuasive :

Kids TV praises Gaza mom's suicide bombing - CNN.com

Horrific video of a child sending her suicide bomber mother to her death | Daily Mail Online

It's not false history. The fact is that their land was taken and given to another people who said that they didn't exist ("a land without a people"). The fact is that many were made to leave and have no right of return while those who remain are subjugated in their own land.

And the proof is in the pudding. Those adults wearing shirts are part of the IDF. The IDF is the one that has killed the most civilians, including intentionally (there is no way to get around the fact that they hit multiple UN structures being used as shelters, including one for which they were given the coordinates 17 times).
 
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Your concept of who the Jews are is very clear--"subhuman"--

Context. It's important. I never said the Jews are subhuman. I said those vile creatures who wear shirts like "One Shot, Two Kills" are subhuman.

But it is very clear also, that Israel warned with leaflets about a coming attack, and all those dispossessed humans ran and left their children behind to be killed.

They didn't run. There is no where to run to as there is no way out. Egypt closed the border crossing and Israel is out of the question. Those boys were playing on the beach. They should never have been attacked.

Dispossessed? It is the Jewish land in question, the land given to them by God long before any so called Muslim or Palestinian was born.

Yes, dispossessed. The Palestinians are the indigenous people of the land.

Also, what happened to thou shalt not steal, thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not covet your neighbor's house?
 
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Apparently your assessment is inaccurate.

As I posted previously :

Palestinians Flee Gaza After Israel Drops Warning Leaflets

https://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/09/...aflet-israeli-attackers-warn-gazans.html?_r=0

Israel warns Gaza residents to leave before strikes - CNN.com

You won't find Assad's regime doing such.

Did Hamas warn Israeli citizens of their rocket attacks?

1.) They could not flee Gaza! They're trapped inside.

2.) Assad actually did give them a "warning"/taunt telling them to leave or else they'll be annihilated. The problem was that there was no where to go, going to Assad's side contains major risks (of "disappearing"), and the fact that sending leaflets does not excuse targeting civilians.

3.) Again, in 2009, pre-iron dome, 3 Israeli non-combatants were killed. Contrast that to the 1k+ non-combatant Palestinians who were killed. Israel (the illegal occupier) is the issue here, not Hamas.


They can reject blame and exonerate themselves all they want. That won't stop them from being responsible for their crimes. If they get away with it in this world, they won't with God.

Chris Gunness, spokesman for UNRWA, which runs Gaza’s UN schools said: “The inquiry found that despite numerous notifications to the Israeli army of the precise GPS coordinates of the schools and numerous notifications about the presence of displaced people, in all seven cases investigated by the Board of Inquiry when our schools were hit directly or in the immediate vicinity, the hit was attributable to the IDF.

Israel responsible for Gaza strikes on UN schools and shelters, inquiry finds
 
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redleghunter

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It's not false history. The fact is that their land was taken and given to another people who said that they didn't exist ("a land without a people"). The fact is that many were made to leave and have no right of return while those who remain are subjugated in their own land.

And the proof is in the pudding. Those adults wearing shirts are part of the IDF. The IDF is the one that has killed the most civilians, including intentionally (there is no way to get around the fact that they hit multiple UN structures being used as shelters, including one for which they were given the coordinates 17 times).

Who took the land from the Palestinians? The Turks? The hundreds of kingdoms and empires prior to the Turks?

How far back is there a claim on the land? 100 years? 4000?
 
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1.) They could not flee Gaza! They're trapped inside.

2.) Assad actually did give them a "warning"/taunt telling them to leave or else they'll be annihilated. The problem was that there was no where to go, going to Assad's side contains major risks (of "disappearing"), and the fact that sending leaflets does not excuse targeting civilians.

3.) Again, in 2009, pre-iron dome, 3 Israeli non-combatants were killed. Contrast that to the 1k+ non-combatant Palestinians who were killed. Israel (the illegal occupier) is the issue here, not Hamas.



They can reject blame and exonerate themselves all they want. That won't stop them from being responsible for their crimes. If they get away with it in this world, they won't with God.

Chris Gunness, spokesman for UNRWA, which runs Gaza’s UN schools said: “The inquiry found that despite numerous notifications to the Israeli army of the precise GPS coordinates of the schools and numerous notifications about the presence of displaced people, in all seven cases investigated by the Board of Inquiry when our schools were hit directly or in the immediate vicinity, the hit was attributable to the IDF.

Israel responsible for Gaza strikes on UN schools and shelters, inquiry finds
The CNN piece I posted showed one errant shell. Which means the hit on the UN shelter was not intentional.
 
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