Kentucky County Clerk Kim Davis Jailed for Not Issuing Gay Marriage Licenses

[Dave Ellis]

Hmm....I see marriage from the very early times in the Old Testament, then among the Jews and Moses law, and throughout the New Testament, so it was something that was taken very seriously and was legal.
However, I think the early Christian marriages were probably exactly like those among the Jews. Basically an agreement between families, much the same as Common Law marriage in the US was/is in some states.
I'm not sure when either Jews or Christians began having actual ceremonies performed by church representatives.

The Catholic Church defined what is and isn't a marriage in the Tametsi decree of 1563 and essentially tried to control marriage rites from that point on. Before that, it largely viewed marriage as a completely secular domain, however sometimes priests would bless the union for things like an increased chance of fertility.

The first example of a "Christian marriage" dates from the 9th century and is essentially identical to the marriage ceremony of ancient Rome. Except this is was presided over by a Christian priest, and looks very little like a modern day marriage ceremony. Even so, this wasn't considered an official church function.

 

[AHH who-stole-my-name]

Sometimes another person can be appointed as an 'acting' officer on a temporary bases. Do you know if this is an option in Kentucky for this position?

I would assume this would be apart of the hierarchy within the bureaucracy. They would have to continue on collecting their fees lest the governor couldn't pay for his hunting license.

I think this has reached the maximum allowed distance for the attention spans of those who have their own lives to live. I give it another 2-3 days and it will disappear of f the radar screens. This women will be quietly chucked out the back door with a resounding thud and life will continue.

 

[Dave Ellis]

You dont get to use double standards either.

I don't believe I am... however I'll take this line as an admission that you were.

 

[Poster0]

We are criticising the ideas that led to Hitler's acts.

Ok. Show me how Hitler used Christian ideas to commit his crimes against humanity. If you cant then please admit that Hitler was not lead by Christian ideas to commit his crime

 

[rhymnrzn2zion]

Pardon? They have a legal right to it. How is it any different than a man and woman asking for the same thing? What misbehavior are you talking about? Next they'll take their kids to the doctor and ask for vaccinations! How dare they.

Right, it is childish and out of order: the act of issuing permits and licensing is a middleman or merely a mirror image or witness of marriage. Someone lays with a harlot, and the two make one for a short time and for a fee. A man can mingle himself with a tree, and with pain call it his spouse, and if they said it is permissible, yet he would be outcasted by any sensible person. So we have a bunch flocking to obtain license for gay marriage, but, whose blessing/acceptance they are really seeking after? Not the Bible believing Christian's.

 

[Cearbhall]

So we have a bunch flocking to obtain license for gay marriage, but, whose blessing/acceptance they are really seeking after? Not the Bible believing Christian's.

Of course not. This is a thread about a case involving the legal institution of marriage in the United States.

 

[Dave Ellis]

Ok. Show me how Hitler used Christian ideas to commit his crimes against humanity. If you cant then please admit that Hitler was not lead by Christian ideas to commit his crime

Well, for one Hitler cited the writings of Martin Luther (the founder of Protestantism) as his primary source for his anti-Semitism, in particular his 1543 treatise "On the Jews and their lies", and chose the start of the "final solution", Kristallnacht (which was largely based off of his Treatise) on Luther's birthday as a tribute.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Jews_and_Their_Lies

 

[Glass*Soul]

Sometimes another person can be appointed as an 'acting' officer on a temporary bases. Do you know if this is an option in Kentucky for this position?

No. I don't. Maybe someone else here does.

 

[HonestTruth]

Of course not. This is a thread about a case involving the legal institution of marriage in the United States.

Funny thing is that while right wingers condemn theocratic type government (that is, where religion controls government and daily conduct) in, say, places like Saudi Arabia and Iran, somehow they feel it is ok for religion to control government here.

 

[Poster0]

Nope, that's not what the fallacy does. Please reread or provide a quote. I'm very sorry if you thought that I was criticizing Christians, but you misunderstood. Acknowledging that it's possible for a member of a group to perform a terrible act and stating that this says something about the group as a whole are two very different things. And actually, I explained that distinction before.

Since you keep using the example of saying that Hitler was a German, perhaps this will get the message across: Hitler was a German (or an Austrian, depending on how you look at it). I have no problem saying this. This is not a bigoted statement. This is a fact. It doesn't say anything about other Germans.

Lets get to this whole fallacy which asserted that christian Ideas lead Hitler to commit crimes against humanity. What specific ideas lead Hitler to do those things?

 

[HonestTruth]

Well, for one Hitler cited the writings of Martin Luther (the founder of Protestantism) as his primary source for his anti-Semitism, in particular his 1543 treatise "On the Jews and their lies", and chose the start of the "final solution", Kristallnacht (which was largely based off of his Treatise) on Luther's birthday as a tribute.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Jews_and_Their_Lies

By fighting off the Jews, I am doing the Lord's work.

~ Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf

 

[Red Fox]

Funny thing is that while right wingers condemn theocratic type government (that is, where religion controls government and daily conduct) in, say, places like Saudi Arabia and Iran, somehow they feel it is ok for religion to control government here.

I don't think they would be so keen on that idea if the religion ended up to be Islam.

 

[Poster0]

Well, for one Hitler cited the writings of Martin Luther (the founder of Protestantism) as his primary source for his anti-Semitism, in particular his 1543 treatise "On the Jews and their lies", and chose the start of the "final solution", Kristallnacht (which was largely based off of his Treatise) on Luther's birthday as a tribute.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Jews_and_Their_Lies

First off, all that would prove is that Lutheran ideas lead hitler to commit his crimes. However that does not prove that he used Christian ideas. Christian ideas would come from the bible but Luther didnt write any part of the bible. Secondly, just because Hitler may have twisted Luther's words doesn't mean that Luther's ideas lead to Hitlers crimes. I can twist the theory of evolution (or any scientific ideas) in order to commit crimes but no one here would dare criticize Evolution theory for my crimes. They would instead say i was a madman and blame it on my madness, not on ideas surrounding evolution.

 

[TerranceL]

<Brienne of Tarth> Oath breaker! </Brienne of Tarth>

Great quote for this thread!

That said,

 

[Poster0]

I think this ridiculous fallacy which blames Hitlers crimes on Christian Ideas has been refuted. Please put your logic where your mouth is and avoid subjective reasoning in the future. Thank you, goodnight.

 

[AHH who-stole-my-name]

well...kim davis has officially lost, even the WBC is telling her she's wrong.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/westboro-baptist-church-weighs-kim-davis-article-1.2350856

How can you be lost when you are condemned by people who are lost and have been down the rabbit hole since they appeared on the picture.

 

[Poster0]

BTW. Thank you for the education on subjective and objective reasoning. I do sincerely appreciate the knowledge. Please dont think i am not grateful for your time. God bless.

 

[brewmama]

5-4. That's legal.

That was not a court order. That was a SC decision.

 

[rhymnrzn2zion]

Of course not. This is a thread about a case involving the legal institution of marriage in the United States.

The lesser of the glories, no doubt, though it justifies nothing about men laying with men, but is pulling a hijinx.

 

[pat34lee]

I take it you're some sort of law professional or student, or have some capacity to draw this conclusion short of reactionary hyperbole?

Fifty plus years of living and learning.