Kansas to criminalize sex education...

[Dave Ellis]

Why won't you answer my questions?

What question did I not answer?

 

[Cearbhall]

Many (not all, but many) forms of contraception are over 99% effective. Abstinence only education doesn't come close to that level of effectiveness.

There. You said it all in two sentences.

/thread

 

[KitKatMatt]

Barrier contraception splits.

And STDs are diseases that are transmitted sexually. Abstinence stops diseases being transmitted sexually, so it is 100% effective. You cant bring in drinks unless you are going to put a condom over your coke can.

You can get STDs without having sex. You can get HIV without having sex. You can get mono without having sex. You can get herpes without having sex.

Being classed as an STD does not mean that is the ONLY way you can get it. An STD is usually passed through blood or bodily fluids, so any non-sexual exchange of blood or bodily fluids puts you at risk.

Also, condoms have a failure rate of 12% (source in my other post). A lot better than no protection at all, if someone decides to have sex.

 

[TLK Valentine]

I doubt that, seeing as I have started to illustrate how contraception is harmful but you just ignore it.

I tend to ignore misinformation and half-truths.

If you can't convince me, how are you going to convince the children?

You can say the same for unprotected sex.

That's correct -- no sex education program is going to be 100% effective. I've never claimed otherwise.

Indeed. They will eventually find out the hard way just how harmful contraception really is.

Or not.... and when they find out you've lied to them, see if they ever believe a word you say ever again.

Basically, what you are saying is... <snip>

What did I say about half-truths and outright lies? If you can't defend Abstinence only education without them, how are you going to teach it without them?

Basically, why should anyone -- adult or child -- trust you?

 

[Cearbhall]

So what you are saying is that people are too stupid and impulsive for abstinence only education and should be allowed contraception because its easier for the bovine to use? In effect, yes.

I don't understand this mindset at all. Wanting sex does not make a person stupid or even impulsive. It's a natural, normal experience, unless you're asexual. The effectiveness of contraception is high enough that having safe sex is a responsible activity, especially in light of other activities that we consider to be acceptable despite their risks.

We are animals, you know.

Still waiting to hear whether you actually think kisses are breaches of abstinence.

 

[TLK Valentine]

I don't understand this mindset at all.

Shame, and the fear of being shamed, are powerful tools in these kind of programs -- browbeat the kids into good behavior by telling them, repeatedly, how "dirty" they'll be if they slip.

Of course, like everything else in Abstinence-only "education," it doesn't work, and backfires severely -- as evidenced by the high number of risky sexual behaviors among "abstinence-only" teens; once they've "tainted" themselves, they feel like they've got nothing left to lose.

Still waiting to hear whether you actually think kisses are breaches of abstinence.

Better hope not -- because you know, once you're tainted...

 

[trunks2k]

Also, condoms have a failure rate of 12% (source in my other post). A lot better than no protection at all, if someone decides to have sex.

IIRC, that failure rate is including people who don't use them correctly. The actual failure rate of condoms when used correctly is actually much, much lower; hence the need to educate on their use.

 

[KitKatMatt]

IIRC, that failure rate is including people who don't use them correctly. The actual failure rate of condoms when used correctly is actually much, much lower; hence the need to educate on their use.

Ooh, thank you for that information! I didn't realize that, I wondered why it seemed so high. I could have sworn the actual rate was around 2% or lower failure.

But yes, we need education on this, or we're just letting the problems of unwanted pregnancy and STD transmission get worse when there are easy solutions out there.

 

[Cearbhall]

Shame, and the fear of being shamed, are powerful tools in these kind of programs -- browbeat the kids into good behavior by telling them, repeatedly, how "dirty" they'll be if they slip.

Ah. Good thing my progressive Catholic high school didn't approve of such tactics. I'm aware of this destructive rhetoric (using a piece of tape that stops being sticky after so many uses, dirt on food, etc.), but I wasn't making the connection. Glad I was spared that.

 

[KitKatMatt]

Ah. Good thing my progressive Catholic high school didn't approve of such tactics. I'm aware of this destructive rhetoric (using a piece of tape that stops being sticky after so many uses, dirt on food, etc.), but I wasn't making the connection. Glad I was spared that.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Your school sounds so AWESOME. I wish I could have gone to it

 

[Ada Lovelace]

What the heck are agnostics and atheists doing on a Christian forum? Did the link not tip you off? Christianforums.com ? Go away.

There are people who joined here as Christians and then their beliefs evolved over time. Some probably continued their membership because of friendships and connections they made, or for other positive reasons such as a desire to meaningfully contribute to discussions that are relevant to everyone and not just those of faith. I've put five people on my ignore list in the past eight months of being a member here, and they're all Christians who persistently behave belligerently. Not once has any agnostic or atheist here been cruel, antagonized me, or weirded me out so that I wanted to put up barriers preventing them from having any personal contact with me.

The labels people have on their accounts here don't necessarily accurately convey their beliefs anyway. I've had comprehensive human development "sex ed", biology, and anatomy classes; have taken art classes that entailed studying famous nude art and painting the human body; and my parents began giving me unfettered access to the internet and personal discretion over the movies I see and books I read a few years ago. Yet, I tripped upon THE most perverse, disturbing, and graphic site I've ever encountered in my life courtesy of Christian Forums. For real. A man with Baptist and Republican icons by his name posted a thread in the Parenting Teen sections a couple of weeks ago about forcing his teenage son to wear a male chastity belt. I had just received a new post to a thread I'd created in that section (about college, not anything freaky) and had just finished reading it when I noticed the one about the chastity belt. Obviously, the man was a troll trying to provoke others, though some actually responded to the thread as though it was genuine. He talked about this site that I had assumed was also just going to be a hoax, like the Kanye West - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia one that was popular that same weekend, but it was actually a legitimate online vendor that sells chastity belts, not for teenagers (of course) but for men with a fetishes for it. On the front page there are graphic images with instructions for how to fit it onto a man and how he should wear it. They also sell "male milking devices." Pukeorama. I'd never conceived of such of a thing as female "cuckolding" or men seeking such sexual domination from women. So yeah. I reported the thread and it was zapped, but it had already racked up a lot of views.

Regarding the OP. It's asinine beyond repair to criminalize sex education. There's a plethora of skewed and false knowledge and misconceptions surrounding us. All a proper human development class will do is equip you with the ability to better understand your own body and make wise decisions for how you use it. It's also far less awkward and more open coming from a reputable and sensitive teacher than a parent.

Eta. Haha. Loser dot com automatically goes to the Wiki site now.

 

[ThinkForYourself]

And its exactly why we need to teach people abstinence properly.
...

How do you teach people abstinence properly?

 

[Dave Ellis]

What the heck are agnostics and atheists doing on a Christian forum? Did the link not tip you off? Christianforums.com ? Go away.

Why are you worried about hearing other viewpoints?

 

[Dave Ellis]

How do you teach people abstinence properly?

By lying to them

 

[loveofourlord]

How do you teach people abstinence properly?

Considering horror stories from abstinence + and only classes it usually involves telling kids, "Have sex and you will die."

 

[KitKatMatt]

Considering horror stories from abstinence + and only classes it usually involves telling kids, "Have sex and you will die."

Or comparing people who have sex to cups of spit and chewed gum.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

And thats before we even get in to the extra problems that contraception brings in society.

Which problems might those be?

Another poster asked you this and you referred them to an older post, however, I read your older post and the "problem" you had with it, was that it was teaching society to decouple sex from procreation.

I think we need to make the distinction between what's a true "problem", and what's a "personal moral". If it's a personal moral that's not shared by everyone, then we shouldn't be basing education policy on it.

 

[Cearbhall]

What the heck are agnostics and atheists doing on a Christian forum? Did the link not tip you off? Christianforums.com ? Go away.

Your life will be much richer and more fulfilling if you welcome people who are different from yourself with open arms and engage in dialogue with them, as Jesus did. I promise.

 

[trunks2k]

Ooh, thank you for that information! I didn't realize that, I wondered why it seemed so high. I could have sworn the actual rate was around 2% or lower failure.

Condoms will actually break less than 2% of the time. Failures of condom use are usually due to not leaving room in the tip of the condom (40% of young men are guilty of this!), or only wearing the condom for a portion of intercourse. It should also be noted that there's evidence that the failure rate of all contraception is inflated due to a tendency for people to overstate their use of contraception.

There have been studies on things like HIV transmission amongst monogamous couples. When one part of the couple had HIV and the other didn't, researchers couldn't find any instances where the virus was transmitted in the group that reported consistent condom usage.

When it comes to pregnancy, there was a study done in 1998 that compared different methods of contraception and how effective they are in normal use and perfect use. When used properly and consistently, in a given year only 2 out of 100 women will become pregnant due to a failed condom. Compared with less than 1 for various forms of birth control, more than 3 for different forms of timing methods (i.e. withdrawal or ovulation), and greater than 6 for sponges. Typical use is 15, sub 1, greater than 25 (for the reported methods), and 15 respectively.

https://www.arhp.org/publications-and-resources/contraception-journal/january-2008

 

[FreeSpirit74]

Look at the teeming millions of cars on the roads each day. How many are involved in an accident? Very very few. Our roads would be utter carnage if that were not so.

You haven't been seeing the national weather reports over here for this winter, have you? There have been a LOT of auto accidents, due to people trying to drive in weather they are not accustomed to, such as people in the southern US trying to drive on icy roads, which they don't normally have to deal with.