Kamala can’t win

[Aldebaran]

Not interested in redirects to partisan attacks. Do presidents have/get to own the economy or not? All of them. Not Biden, not Trump, all presidents. Yes or no?

All but Biden. Oh, and Obama too:

https://www.cnbc.com/2011/08/31/obama-stop-blaming-bush-for-your-economy-cheney.html

 

[Belk]

All but Biden. Oh, and Obama too:

https://www.cnbc.com/2011/08/31/obama-stop-blaming-bush-for-your-economy-cheney.html

Buh bye

 

[Niels]

Do presidents have to own the economy on their watch or not?

Good question. My understanding is that economies have a kind of momentum. They don't necessarily rise or fall much overnight when a new POTUS is elected. Trump inherited the economy from Obama and Biden inherited the economy from Trump. The state of the economy near the end of a two term presidency gives a better indication of how the economy fared under their watch because that momentum has more time to catch up with the policies that were implemented under their watch. That said, I'm not an economist and there is a lot more to it.

 

[Aldebaran]

Good question. My understanding is that economies have a kind of momentum. They don't necessarily rise or fall much overnight when a new POTUS is elected. Trump inherited the economy from Obama and Biden inherited the economy from Trump. The state of the economy near the end of a two term presidency gives a better indication of how the economy fared under their watch because that momentum has more time to catch up with the policies that were implemented under their watch. That said, I'm not an economist and there is a lot more to it.

Which leads to the inevitable question being asked of members of the voting public, "Are you better off now than you were 4 years ago?"

 

[Merrill]

As far as the "are you better off today than you were 4 years ago, or during the Trump administration" the answer is:

If you are relatively wealthy, and have a large portfolio of bonds, convertibles, CDs, and CEFs, you are doing fantastic. The higher-interest rate environment means more income through interest payments and distributions.

and if you are heavily invested in the stock market, all the money printing and government spending has helped equity prices.

if you own a home, you have seen dramatic appreciation in the value of the property.

But what if you aren't in the top 1-15% of income and wealth? Well, you have seen

Grocery prices soar by 20%+ since 2020
Home values skyrocket to the point of unaffordability
Car prices soar to their highest levels ever
College tuition and healthcare costs continuing to climb
A weakening of the labor market in 2024, with most "new jobs" going to low-wage workers and immigrants (many illegal)

All of that is a consequence of bad fiscal and monetary policy, along with bad covid-19 policy a few years ago. Money printing, excessive stimulus, forgiving student loan debt of the upper-middle-class, tariffs, supply shocks, etc.

The Biden-Harris administration was the biggest handout the upper-middle-class, and upper-class ever seen. I know, I am in that class. People below me have gotten completely crushed by inflation, soaring debt, and a weak job market.

Now Kamala is trying to gaslight the public into thinking that "greedflation" or arbitrary "price-gouging" by big corporations is the cause of all this--and literally no economists are buying that nonsense argument. Even The Washington Post has heavily criticized her nonsensical, populist rhetoric.

But for those of you who support Harris, go ahead an put her into the Whitehouse and see what happens. When she implements price-controls, 2 trillion+ in new spending, hands out 25k to first-generation home-buyers, etc., inflation will soar, the US debt will be downgraded, and there will be literal food shortages in supermarkets.

 

[KCfromNC]

Which leads to the inevitable question being asked of members of the voting public, "Are you better off now than you were 4 years ago?"

Hmm, am I better off now vs. in the middle of a global pandemic which the leader of the US had insisted would 'miraculously' be gone by April? Hard to figure that one out.

 

[DaisyDay]

The fake stories about insufficient medical supplies being Trump's fault are DNC talking-points

Trump pitted the states against one another driving up prices instead of facilitating and coordinating distribution. He denied the seriousness of the pandemic and discouraged testing and quarantining. He totally flubbed up.

we did have a shortage of masks, and some equipment, and this was because the borders were basically shut, and we couldn't get anything from China.

Of course there were problems with supplies but instead of making things better he made them worse. If there had been no problems then his inaction would not have mattered. He made things worse.

and Trump never "ignored the Pandemic" --again, fake left-wing talking-point. Operation light-speed developed a vaccine to combat the virus, while massive fiscal support was given to states (for better or for worse).

Fake talking point. It isn’t that he ignored the pandemic but that he denied the seriousness of it. Yes, he did a good thing in helping to get a vaccine developed but obviously they would have been developed anyway as non-American companies also developed vaccines in the same timeframe.

Worse is that once the vaccine was developed, tested and approved he did precious little to promote it. He had his own vaccination done in secret. Why was that?

Democrats pushed Chinese-style lockdowns and draconian pandemic measures that wrecked the economy, and then blamed Trump for it --and it worked. They politicized a public-health crisis.

Trump was the leader of the country who promoted quackery. Whatever Democratic politicians did or didn’t do they had nowhere near the power and influence nationwide, even worldwide, and he flubbed it.

you need to turn off MSNBC and start reading some real news

What an ignorant admonition!

 

[Merrill]

Trump pitted the states against one another driving up prices instead of facilitating and coordinating distribution. He denied the seriousness of the pandemic and discouraged testing and quarantining. He totally flubbed up.

Of course there were problems with supplies but instead of making things better he made them worse. If there had been no problems then his inaction would not have mattered. He made things worse.

Fake talking point. It isn’t that he ignored the pandemic but that he denied the seriousness of it. Yes, he did a good thing in helping to get a vaccine developed but obviously they would have been developed anyway as non-American companies also developed vaccines in the same timeframe.

Worse is that once the vaccine was developed, tested and approved he did precious little to promote it. He had his own vaccination done in secret. Why was that?


Trump was the leader of the country who promoted quackery. Whatever Democratic politicians did or didn’t do they had nowhere near the power and influence nationwide, even worldwide, and he flubbed it.

What an ignorant admonition!

this completely stupid statement "Trump pitted the states against one another driving up prices instead of facilitating and coordinating distribution" is false on several levels

1. Trump never "pitted states against each other" --and what does that even mean? Bogus DNC talking-point. Trump was not in charge of distribution.
2. Trump "drove up prices of the vaccine" --Trump has absolutely no authority to do that, didn't do it, and wouldn't have done it. Again, total nonsense

Democrats literally wanted to distribute the vaccine to people based on race --tell me how that isn't interfering with the Vaccine rollout

"Trump denied the seriousness of the Pandemic" --he did? Then why was a vaccine developed with Federal funding? You do realize the contradiction here yes? The whole country was shut down at one point.

Democrats politicized the pandemic from day one. Remember when Biden said it was racist and xenophobic to shut down travel between the US and China in the early days of the outbreak? Democrat mayors sent people with COVID into nursing homes in places like New York, and when a bunch of people died, blamed Trump.

Democrats worked with the CCP to spread disinformation regarding the origins of the outbreak, prevent that country from being held liable for the disaster, and endorsed the "zero-covid policy" which China used. That policy was a total fiasco, didn't work, and wrecked the economy and helped cause a tidal wave of inflation. Tens of thousands of Americans dies because they couldn't get medical care, tests, etc.

and then Democrats gaslit the public about "conspiracy theories", "quacks", "civic duty"

there should have been public trials after all this happened, and these people should have been convicted and thrown in jail for what they did

 

[DaisyDay]

this completely stupid statement "Trump pitted the states against one another driving up prices instead of facilitating and coordinating distribution" is false on several levels

Insults make poor arguments, but it's clear why Donald appeals so much to you - your debate styles are very similar.

1. Trump never "pitted states against each other" --and what does that even mean? Bogus DNC talking-point. Trump was not in charge of distribution.

Except that he did. Rather than coordinate supplies, he made the states compete against each other which drove up the prices. Trump put his nepobaby Jared in charge of that; Jared then outsourced the responsibility to college buddies with no experience (which showed).

2. Trump "drove up prices of the vaccine" --Trump has absolutely no authority to do that, didn't do it, and wouldn't have done it. Again, total nonsense

Um, that isn't what I ever said. That is total nonsense - where the heck did you get that from? Perhaps you could read a bit more carefully?

Democrats literally wanted to distribute the vaccine to people based on race --tell me how that isn't interfering with the Vaccine rollout

First off, please show some evidence that this is true. Second, what they did or didn't do is just a red herring as this is about how badly Donald flubbed it up.

"Trump denied the seriousness of the Pandemic" --he did?

Yes, many times throughout the year. Do you need a list?

Then why was a vaccine developed with Federal funding? You do realize the contradiction here yes? The whole country was shut down at one point.

According to you, Donald had nothing to do with the shutting down of the country, so that's a odd argument to make. Many vaccines were developed not just "a" vaccine. It is customary for the feds to fund vaccines because they are not generally that profitable.

Democrats politicized the pandemic from day one. Remember when Biden said it was racist and xenophobic to shut down travel between the US and China in the early days of the outbreak? Democrat mayors sent people with COVID into nursing homes in places like New York, and when a bunch of people died, blamed Trump.

What Democrats did or didn't do does not ameliorate the awfulness of Donald's flubbing. Fun fact: two things can be awful at the same time!

Democrats worked with the CCP to spread disinformation regarding the origins of the outbreak, prevent that country from being held liable for the disaster, and endorsed the "zero-covid policy" which China used.

Oh dear. This is conspiracy nonsense that has nothing to do with Donald's incompetence at handling an actual crisis.

That policy was a total fiasco, didn't work, and wrecked the economy and helped cause a tidal wave of inflation. Tens of thousands of Americans dies because they couldn't get medical care, tests, etc.]

Hundreds of thousands died during the pandemic while Donald touted quack treatments, secretly got himself vaccinated and flubbed the whole thing (except for helping to fund vaccine development).

and then Democrats gaslit the public about "conspiracy theories", "quacks", "civic duty"

Dang Democrats!!

there should have been public trials after all this happened, and these people should have been convicted and thrown in jail for what they did

Well, kudos, I guess, for calling for public rather than secret trials, but shouldn't convictions be based on the actual evidence and determined after the show trials?