Kamala’s Response to “Jesus is Lord

[ozso]

There's another's life involved when people fornicate too, and we dishonor one another when we join together to use one another for only sexual gratification. For the pregnant woman it's her own baby inside her and they are already one, and when she gives birth, then they are two. The way I see it is if a woman carries a child to term, she will be glad she didn't get an abortion. Subsequently if she gets the abortion, she will miss out on the most fulfilling part of being a woman.

Yes but the two lives mutually agree to fornicate. So abortion is like rape because the other life didn't agree to it. And like rape it's one life fulfilling their desire with no regard for the other life.

 

[Hazelelponi]

For what it's worth, I like that you say we must judge situations, but I don't feel called to judge people, but rather to forgive people.

Forgiveness is a wonderful quality but it has a place. When the Bible talks about forgiveness it's first talking about forgiveness between believers.

When the Bible talks about loving your enemies well, that's different but you have to understand love is Covenant in Scripture, God gave His Son to be in Covenant with us, Christ is love because Christ is Covenant. God so covenanted (loved) with the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that's a massive covenant - the New Covenant.

When we forgive and love our enemies we invite them into covenant with us - the covenant we are in with God through Christ in His Holy Spirit In other words, we love them enough to share the Gospel with them, and help them with their physical needs if God has given us ability.

We see former jihadists meet up with men of God and become born again Christians and we forgive them for their sins and invite them to live with us and help them start a new life, a new life in Christ. That's the purest and most Biblical form of loving our enemies and forgiveness of our brother.

There's a couple issues at play with how Christians are to deal with the world around us - personal, what is our place as Christians, what are we called to do in our personal lives as regenerated people living in the Spirit.

But then you have societal. First is the smaller aspect of our society, the body of Christ, your family, your local church body, your own actual neighborhood and our watch here.

And then finally main societal as far as what Caesar controls, what is under the purview of government and this sphere of responsibility.

In Bible times there was no say by the Church in government. All they could do at best and certainly not even always that was make requests from those who had power in government.

Now times are different and so we have to consider what our responsibilities are in the times we live with the government writ large.

Americans founding fathers have done a good job of hammering out the most Biblical expression of Protestant government under the New Covenant from what I can see, and I'm blessed to live under it.

But this last sphere, it touches both world and faith, so we have to carefully consider everything.

We can remain within our own sphere of personal faith and be the most Godly form of forgiving possible, and still support the governments role in punishing the evil doer because the government has a different role than the individual Christian - because the governments job, one of them, is to provide a safe place for their citizens to live, so for government letting the murderer free is not living out it's responsibility under God.

It's a matter of looking at all the issues rightly and making sure we are keeping everything in its correct place from a Biblical and Christian standpoint.

As far as continuing to respond to the rest of your post I'll stop here otherwise I'll be writing a book not responding on a discussion forum... Lol.

 

[KCfromNC]

I would hesitate to assign my viewpoints to anyone else, let alone every person my age.

Why not? We've seen posts in this thread requiring us to know exactly what a person heard at a specific point in time along with how the people allegedly being heard are viewed by everyone else present. Seems like a whole pile of assumptions need to be forced onto this non-event to make the manufactured outrage work. And if it doesn't work, then the sources pushing this are going to look kinda foolish for starting it in the first place. So why not pile on more assumptions onto the top and hope it holds the story together? What's there to lose at this point?

 

[KCfromNC]

I agree, but THERE IS definitely hatred against Christians in the west.

There's hatred against most everyone, depending on how far we take the idea that disagreeing with a particular random opinion is hatred. But loosening the definition so far that it's something that happens to everyone really limits how useful this observation is in any particular way.

 

[comana]

There's another's life involved when people fornicate too, and we dishonor one another when we join together to use one another for only sexual gratification. For the pregnant woman it's her own baby inside her and they are already one, and when she gives birth, then they are two. The way I see it is if a woman carries a child to term, she will be glad she didn't get an abortion. Subsequently if she gets the abortion, she will miss out on the most fulfilling part of being a woman.

I'm not sure how to answer that. Jesus was conceived in God's mind before time began. Anyway, I'm sure Mary didn't think he was a clump of flesh.

Giving birth is no guarantee a woman will feel maternal or loving to the baby, or that she will be glad it was born. My own husband was born to a woman who gave birth to 4 and then abandoned them all. (Per the TOS, I’m not going to argue this is or isn’t a valid reason for abortion so don’t come at me saying I did.)

I also disagree that the most fulfilling thing a woman can do is give birth. That is insulting to millions of women who find life accomplishments very fulfilling, even to those who are also mothers. Women are more than their reproductive capabilities.

 

[childeye 2]

Does that mean there shouldn't be any law aginst murder and stealing, but rather love instead? Or that a jury should love the murderer or thief instead of finding them guilty? Or that a judge should love the murderer or thief instead of imposing a sentence? Or that really loving others means there should be no law against murder and theft, and therefore there should be no police, no trials, no juries, and no judges?

It means that without love, even those who would administer the law are breakers of the law. It means that Love is what informs righteousness. which means righteousness does not come through the works of the law. Which means no flesh will be justified by the law.

Look at the law of Christ ---> LOVE God with all heart mind and soul and LOVE your neighbor as yourself.

 

[ozso]

It means that without love, even those who would administer the law are breakers of the law. It means that Love is what informs righteousness. which means righteousness does not come through the works of the law. Which means no flesh will be justified by the law.

Look at the law of Christ ---> LOVE God with all heart mind and soul and LOVE your neighbor as yourself.

Does not putting restrictions on abortion fulfill the commandment to love God with all heart mind and soul and to love your neighbor as yourself?

 

[Yarddog]

They are children. Boys. Still getting money from people my age to survive... They will appear to people my age as what they are - dependants, not adult men. She has step children, she ought to be able to recognize that on sight.

She should have natural sympathy as a woman.

Did you see any of the videos showing how far away the two students were from the stage? How can you determine that she could make out the age of those students or even make out who yelled?

 

[childeye 2]

Yes, but the two lives mutually agree to fornicate.

Every act of sin is based on first believing a lie. The fornicator lacks the knowledge of the truth to actually realize what they're doing. The lust of the flesh is typically built upon imaginations. Not only do we not realize we're devaluing ourselves, and each other, we can only realize the innocence we've lost afterwards, when we can't get it back.

So abortion is like rape because the other life didn't agree to it. And like rape it's one life fulfilling their desire with no regard for the other life.

It's inaccurate to say a child is being forced to have sex when an abortion is being performed. A developing baby doesn't reason on any level of knowledge so as to agree or disagree about whether they want to be born, just as we never asked to be born. What can be ascertained is that the life of the unborn is dependent on the woman.

 

[ozso]

Every act of sin is based on first believing a lie. The fornicator lacks the knowledge of the truth to actually realize what they're doing. The lust of the flesh is typically built upon imaginations. Not only do we not realize we're devaluing ourselves, and each other, we can only realize the innocence we've lost afterwards, when we can't get it back.

It's inaccurate to say a child is being forced to have sex when an abortion is being performed. A developing baby doesn't reason on any level of knowledge so as to agree or disagree about whether they want to be born, just as we never asked to be born. What can be ascertained is that the life of the unborn is dependent on the woman.

You compared abortion to fornication, I said it's more like rape than fornication for the reasons I stipulated. And abortion is dependent upon how unrestricted it is. That's the whole point of laws, they act as a deterrent.

 

[wing2000]

Only if you assume that those were the only words that she heard (or, indeed, that she heard them at all). As has been pointed out, they started out chanting "Lies, lies, lies!" - that's heckling, and being removed from the venue is an appropriate consequence for hecklers, even if we might find it far more entertaining and cathartic to see them taken down a peg. Switching to shouting religious slogans isn't a get-out-of-jail-free card (metaphorically speaking).

Had the hecklers been honest, they would have shouted "Trump is Lord"....

 

[childeye 2]

Giving birth is no guarantee a woman will feel maternal or loving to the baby, or that she will be glad it was born. My own husband was born to a woman who gave birth to 4 and then abandoned them all. (Per the TOS, I’m not going to argue this is or isn’t a valid reason for abortion so don’t come at me saying I did.)

I don't know the circumstances of your husband's mother, but I would bet there was some anguish involved. Even though she abandoned them, it still doesn't mean she's not glad and comforted to know they're doing well, nor wishes they were never born.

I also disagree that the most fulfilling thing a woman can do is give birth. That is insulting to millions of women who find life accomplishments very fulfilling, even to those who are also mothers. Women are more than their reproductive capabilities.

Respectfully, it's possible to find offense where none was intended. It's just my observation that it seems women endure more pain and suffering in this world than men do. My admiration of the courage to give birth and bring forth children into the world, is not meant as derogatory towards anyone.

 

[childeye 2]

Does not putting restrictions on abortion fulfill the commandment to love God with all heart mind and soul and to love your neighbor as yourself?

I'd say the motive of putting restrictions on abortion is based on Love and so is showing mercy and understanding. That's why most states have policies that have some restrictions.

 

[childeye 2]

You compared abortion to fornication, I said it's more like rape than fornication for the reasons I stipulated. And abortion is dependent upon how unrestricted it is. That's the whole point of laws, they act as a deterrent.

Well, rape is an inaccurate term to describe the termination of an unwanted pregnancy. Nobody is forcing sexual acts upon the developing child. It's not sound reasoning and it will end in a contradiction. The only reason I mention fornication is (1) It's an action that is probably the cause of many unwanted pregnancies, (2) it's a sin against one's own self.

Abortion is not dependent upon how restricted or unrestricted it is, any more than fornication is. It's like you're saying that if you were pregnant, you'd right away get an abortion unless someone stopped you. The reality is that most women want to have their babies, and abortion is an action that is the result of a woman not wanting to give birth, whether it's restricted or not.

Sure, laws can be implemented as a deterrent, but underground networks also form to skirt the law. This has been a recurring issue for thousands of years. The administrators of the laws can also be hypocritical since they do the same things, making the justice system unjust.

 

[childeye 2]

Forgiveness is a wonderful quality but it has a place. When the Bible talks about forgiveness it's first talking about forgiveness between believers.

When the Bible talks about loving your enemies well, that's different but you have to understand love is Covenant in Scripture, God gave His Son to be in Covenant with us, Christ is love because Christ is Covenant. God so covenanted (loved) with the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that's a massive covenant - the New Covenant.

When we forgive and love our enemies we invite them into covenant with us - the covenant we are in with God through Christ in His Holy Spirit In other words, we love them enough to share the Gospel with them, and help them with their physical needs if God has given us ability.

We see former jihadists meet up with men of God and become born again Christians and we forgive them for their sins and invite them to live with us and help them start a new life, a new life in Christ. That's the purest and most Biblical form of loving our enemies and forgiveness of our brother.

There's a couple issues at play with how Christians are to deal with the world around us - personal, what is our place as Christians, what are we called to do in our personal lives as regenerated people living in the Spirit.

But then you have societal. First is the smaller aspect of our society, the body of Christ, your family, your local church body, your own actual neighborhood and our watch here.

And then finally main societal as far as what Caesar controls, what is under the purview of government and this sphere of responsibility.

In Bible times there was no say by the Church in government. All they could do at best and certainly not even always that was make requests from those who had power in government.

Now times are different and so we have to consider what our responsibilities are in the times we live with the government writ large.

Americans founding fathers have done a good job of hammering out the most Biblical expression of Protestant government under the New Covenant from what I can see, and I'm blessed to live under it.

But this last sphere, it touches both world and faith, so we have to carefully consider everything.

We can remain within our own sphere of personal faith and be the most Godly form of forgiving possible, and still support the governments role in punishing the evil doer because the government has a different role than the individual Christian - because the governments job, one of them, is to provide a safe place for their citizens to live, so for government letting the murderer free is not living out it's responsibility under God.

It's a matter of looking at all the issues rightly and making sure we are keeping everything in its correct place from a Biblical and Christian standpoint.

As far as continuing to respond to the rest of your post I'll stop here otherwise I'll be writing a book not responding on a discussion forum... Lol.

12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

 

[Tom8907]

I agree, but THERE IS definitely hatred against Christians in the west. I will not say otherwise.

Somewhat but nothing in comparison to what I read about in Barnabas Aid, Release International, Open Doors, etc.

 

[DaisyDay]

I don't know, I rather think mocking them and laughing at them was particularly unloving...

Do you remember when Donald booted a crying baby from one of his rallies? He mocked the baby, too.

https://www.npr.org/2016/08/02/488395073/trump-kicks-baby-out-of-rally

But then, with the baby continuing to cry, Trump seemed to have a change of heart.

"Actually, I was only kidding, you can get the baby out of here," Trump said, gesturing like an umpire.

He added, "That's all right. Don't worry. I, I think she really believed me that I love having a baby crying while I'm speaking. That's OK. People don't understand. That's OK."​

Why do you require Harris to be "loving" toward hecklers but not her opponent? She wasn't even rude to them, suggesting the little rally down the street would be a better fit.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Do you remember when Donald booted a crying baby from one of his rallies? He mocked the baby, too.

https://www.npr.org/2016/08/02/488395073/trump-kicks-baby-out-of-rally

But then, with the baby continuing to cry, Trump seemed to have a change of heart.​

​

"Actually, I was only kidding, you can get the baby out of here," Trump said, gesturing like an umpire.​

​

He added, "That's all right. Don't worry. I, I think she really believed me that I love having a baby crying while I'm speaking. That's OK. People don't understand. That's OK."​

Why do you require Harris to be "loving" toward hecklers but not her opponent? She wasn't even rude to them, suggesting the little rally down the street would be a better fit.

Because this is about manufactured outrage.

This is "Obama wore a tan suit".

Trump has spent the past decade saying the most unhinged, evil, and shocking things and getting away with it.
No Democrat has done anything even in the same orbit of insane, but everything they do has to be considered the worst thing ever.

It's why Tim Walz gets criticized for, *checks notes*, being happy.
But JD Vance can be a blatant hypocrite, propagate xenophobic and racist conspiracy theories, minimize the horror of dead school children, but hey, no problem.

It's why Kamala Harris gets criticized for, *checks notes*, laughing.
But Donald Trump can be a convicted rapist, sexual predator, say racist and xenophobic things, threaten to punish political opponents, spearhead a coup of the United States, praise Adolf Hitler, attack US veterans, tell everyone both publicly and privately that he wants to be a dictator, go on long winded word-salad rants, but, hey, again, no problem.

But then this gets treated like this is just par for the course American politics. The same old sport of Republicans and Democrats. But this isn't that. This is weird. This is all unhinged. None of this is normal. It hasn't been normal for almost a decade.

The rest of the planet is watching America literally fall apart at the seams.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[RileyG]

There's hatred against most everyone, depending on how far we take the idea that disagreeing with a particular random opinion is hatred. But loosening the definition so far that it's something that happens to everyone really limits how useful this observation is in any particular way.

It's more than just disagreeing with opinions, though.

 

[RileyG]

Somewhat but nothing in comparison to what I read about in Barnabas Aid, Release International, Open Doors, etc.

Yes. Christians are being slaughtered in the Middle East to near extinction.